Child Killed By Dog

[Kavik]

Completely agree lilli

[Keira&Phoenix]

For the record, I don't agree with banning a breed either as the dickhead owners (who are the fault) will just move onto another breed. However, if the responsible owners here are to save their breed, they need to recognise there is a problem with ownership, get better spokespeople in the media and work with authorities to find a solution, not get on the defensive every time there is an attack.

I think you'll find the Pit folks have been quite reasonably In this debate, however much can be said for the other party Including throwing Insults.

Mathew B could you please answer the previous question asked

Sure, which question? Must have missed it...

The dog is now being reported as a crossbreed.

What do you say to that?

I believe is the question PF asked you a few pages back.

ETA here it is

Ok, so the dog is not a pitbull.

Where does that leave us?

Edited August 18, 2011 by Keira&Phoenix

[experiencedfun]

perfect Lilly

[RottnBullies]

Thanks Keira, that's the one

[Lally]

All of these arguments are circular and now useless. The die has been cast, at least in Victoria.

From the Herald Sun:

"Mr Baillieu pledged to toughen the crimes act to impose criminal penalties and possible jail terms to the owners of dangerous dogs, as well arming local councils with resources to track down unregistered animals.

A 'dob in a dangerous dog' hotline will also be established to enable to public to alert council if there is a suspect dog in their neighbourhood.

Owners could also soon face jail under new laws similar to those faced by culpable drivers.

Even in the most horrific cases the owners of dangerous dogs can only be hit with a $4500 fine under current legislation.....

The Government is also considering changes reversing the onus of proof for what is classified a dangerous dog back onto the animal’s owners.

Under the domestic animals act authorities currently have to prove a dog belongs to a specific breed, meaning the owners of dangerous dogs can use prolonged court battles to delay or prevent any restrictions being imposed on their animals.

If the proposed changes come into place, authorities will be able to immediately classify a dog as being dangerous and it would be up to the owner to then have to prove their dog belonged to a different breed if they wanted it over turned in the courts.

Currently there are 243 dogs in Victoria on the dangerous dogs register, including 42 in Brimbank Council where last night’s tragedy occurred.

Animals on the dangerous dogs register must be microchipped, desexed, muzzled and on a lead in public, and must be kept in a special yard with a sign on the gate.

Acting Victoria Police chief commissioner Ken Lay said the girl's death was an "absolute tragedy" and would reignite the debate about dangerous dogs.

"I wouldn't want one of them (pit bulls) living next to me, that's for sure," he said.

Lost Dogs Home general manager Graeme Smith has called on the State Government to urgently conduct a review of dangerous dog legislation in the wake of the attack.

Mr Smith said the current laws in relation to the keeping of pit bull terriers and pit bull terrier crosses were failing to keep the community safe.

"Pit bull terriers and pit bull terrier crosses should be declared dangerous and then they would have to be desexed, vaccinated and microchipped and kept in enclosures on their property or inside the house," he said.

While purebred pit bulls are a restricted breed, other varieties of the breed are not and they are not subject to any restrictions.

"The Government needs to take the opportunity to take a look at it because the legislation is failing. It is a tragic circumstance and I feel extreme sorrow for the family involved," he said.

Mr Smith said that only 72 pure-bred pit bulls were registered in Victoria but there were as many as 5000 pit bull terriers and pit bull crosses.

"You can't register an American pit bull terrier anymore so what happens is that they arrive and are not registered, they are forced underground or they are registered as a pit bull terrier cross or some other breed," he said.

"Pit bulls should be treated like swimming pools, they should be fenced off from the rest of the community. They are deadly."

[Matthew_B]

The thing that gets me is that a dog like a Golden Retriever is far more common in the average household than the pitbull, yet we see far more attacks and deaths from pitbulls than Golden Retrievers. I wonder why??? Could it be because it IS in fact a dangerous breed? I think so!

[Bindo]

For the record, I don't agree with banning a breed either as the dickhead owners (who are the fault) will just move onto another breed. However, if the responsible owners here are to save their breed, they need to recognise there is a problem with ownership, get better spokespeople in the media and work with authorities to find a solution, not get on the defensive every time there is an attack.

The moment the public and the systems you voted in

'banned' the Pit Bull as part of BSL

that same action also removed any possibility of an organised effort to breed 'good PB' (and as a consequence, good PB mixes.)

Banning the breed resulted in the banning of good breeders, who otherwise could have set standards in place.

In many ways, this is what you get when you have no professional breeders nurturing a breed and leading the way for new breeders to follow.

No professional breeders to be very picky about where their puppies go and to whom

no professional breeders to defend their breed and bring in new lineage when needed.

(Yes there'd be a handful of professional PB breeders, rightly ducking and keeping

beneath the radar, but these smart folk aren't going to put their heads up now, they're keeping their good dogs and good lineage underground where they're safe.)

Back above ground:

Australia created this sealed cesspool of poorly bred pitbull genes + other breeds bred in add-hoc to fill in the void

And now Australia reals in horror when all these mixed goodness-knows-what-combinations go running around biting people.

Well really, what did you think would happen, when you ban organised registration systems and breeding standards that only professional breeders can put in place and uphold?

Yes the naive and daft still continue to believe in breed bans and that you can sweep up genetic footprints with the assistance of your local ranger ...

but really.

You wanted a breed banned, well applaud BSL.

The registered breeders and the breed are gone.

But the dogs and their progeny, their mixed progeny, their owners,and their owners who will breed, they still exist.

When you brought in BSL you kicked the PB custodians out, so now all you're left with is the nuff nuffs with no knowledge; and their bad dogs and bad dog mixes that noone can tell apart from the good dog mixes.

Every dependable breed of dog in Australia that is held in high regard,

is this way because of the organised breed club and professional breeders nurturing the breed.

Who is the 'you' in this quote?

[Guest lavendergirl]

The thing that gets me is that a dog like a Golden Retriever is far more common in the average household than the pitbull, yet we see far more attacks and deaths from pitbulls than Golden Retrievers. I wonder why??? Could it be because it IS in fact a dangerous breed? I think so!

Maybe leave it at that Matthew - you will never win here. I think there is a Poodlefan fan club. ;)

[RottnBullies]

A 'dob in a dangerous dog' hotline will also be established to enable to public to alert council if there is a suspect dog in their neighbourhood.

This Is what I am fearing, how many Innocent dogs are going to get caught up In this

Mathew B you have yet to answer the question

[jadesamara]

The dog is now being reported as a crossbreed.

What do you say to that?

I believe is the question PF asked you a few pages back.

Yes, I think Mastiff was thrown into the description now.

I have seen several reports in the media about councils seizing "Pitbulls" to destroy, only to have the owners pleading with the council not to destroy their Staffordshire Bull Terriers. Even after one family produced documentation that showed their dog was indeed SBT, the council deemed it to have "pit bull qualities".

I don't know about other councils, but BCC do their assessment on whether a dog is pit bull by a few measurements of the head and body. Gawd help anyone who has a large Staffordshire! Seems the old mentality of "if it walks like a duck..." is rearing it's ugly head again.

I firmly believe in education...educate (train) the dog, educate the owner, and educate children. I was very impressed with the number of children who approached the dogs at the Ekka in the Pedigree stand, either asking If they could pat the dog, or offering the back of their hand first. Obviously these dogs are very well socialized and kept under strict control, as the public are encouraged to pat the dogs. But there were still an awful lot who ran up to the dogs, or threw their arms around the dog's belly etc. Out on the street this could lead to disaster.

Banning the breed is a load of codswallop.

[Boronia]

Apologies if this updated ABC link/video has been posted already...Not impressed at all by the picture behind the news desk person.

You can do better than this ABC!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-18/dog-pulled-girl-from-mothers-leg/2845390

The reporter had trouble saying pitbull cross, seemed to me that she wanted to just say pitbull

Edited August 18, 2011 by Boronia

[Matthew_B]

A 'dob in a dangerous dog' hotline will also be established to enable to public to alert council if there is a suspect dog in their neighbourhood.

This Is what I am fearing, how many Innocent dogs are going to get caught up In this

Mathew B you have yet to answer the question

Yes, and I asked what the question was because I missed it and couldn't find it...

[Aidan3]

The thing that gets me is that a dog like a Golden Retriever is far more common in the average household than the pitbull, yet we see far more attacks and deaths from pitbulls than Golden Retrievers. I wonder why??? Could it be because it IS in fact a dangerous breed? I think so!

Do countries who do not have pitbulls through BSL have fewer dog bite related fatalities than countries who do not?

[rep628]

Sorry everyone, I've been busy taking my bully breed to Pet Therapy (that was interesting, not the easiest thing to do after a dog related fatality), and been busy supervising a little 7 week Staffy Cross foster pup (maybe? Probably? Don't know, it's a stray) play with my 7 month old Greyhound and my two other Bullys. If I wasn't a responsible owner, I'd let the Greyhound unleash on the pup, maybe that'll change some headlines...? No? Too early. Sorry, getting naughty. I'll go back to crate training the Staffy Cross pup, maybe do a time out in there with her. Such a little nugget, she sure is loving it, some home will be so lucky to have her.

Anyways, PoodleFan - you're a legend. You just got a Canadian using Aussie lingo, but really, there is no way else to sum up your steely, accurate, constant responses. It also made me reflect on a very recent post by Donna Reynolds from BAD RAP -

"Following any dog-related tragedy, the formula response from opportunistic politicians and media types on a sky-is-falling mission is exhausting. Intelligent people don't want to be manipulated into fear though; they want to be informed."

Thank you for being an intelligent person.

On another note, just read from ABC news online they're now saying the dog was a pit/mastiff cross. Hmmm, did I not just caution before about American Bulldogs or Bull Arabs? Not that we can verify it's any of those, and the media has done irreparable damage. People saw a square blocky head and short fur, with a longer tapered tail - it's gotta be PB. But clearly this person was not going to be deterred from owning a large, powerful dog. The only thing that could have stopped this person from owning this dog was tougher legislation against the owner, he/she would have likely thought "it's not worth jail time" when it first growled at a child through the fence.

[Matthew_B]

For the record, I don't agree with banning a breed either as the dickhead owners (who are the fault) will just move onto another breed. However, if the responsible owners here are to save their breed, they need to recognise there is a problem with ownership, get better spokespeople in the media and work with authorities to find a solution, not get on the defensive every time there is an attack.

I think you'll find the Pit folks have been quite reasonably In this debate, however much can be said for the other party Including throwing Insults.

Mathew B could you please answer the previous question asked

Sure, which question? Must have missed it...

The dog is now being reported as a crossbreed.

What do you say to that?

I believe is the question PF asked you a few pages back.

ETA here it is

Ok, so the dog is not a pitbull.

Where does that leave us?

I don't claim to be an expert on visually identifying all dog breeds (I know a German Shepherd from a Beagle, put it that way), so I'll leave it up to the experts. My argument is regarding pitbulls in general...

[Matthew_B]

Check out the poll...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/child-killed-in-dog-attack-at-st-albans/story-fn7x8me2-1226116993730

[poodlefan]

The thing that gets me is that a dog like a Golden Retriever is far more common in the average household than the pitbull, yet we see far more attacks and deaths from pitbulls than Golden Retrievers. I wonder why??? Could it be because it IS in fact a dangerous breed? I think so!

Do countries who do not have pitbulls through BSL have fewer dog bite related fatalities than countries who do not?

No. And in Canada cities with BSL have seen attacks remain steady where other approaches have seen them fall.

[Aidan3]

I don't claim to be an expert on visually identifying all dog breeds (I know a German Shepherd from a Beagle, put it that way), so I'll leave it up to the experts. My argument is regarding pitbulls in general...

So how do the experts define a pitbull?

And do countries with fewer pitbulls or no pitbulls have fewer dog bite related fatalities than countries who do have pitbulls?

[poodlefan]

Check out the poll...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/child-killed-in-dog-attack-at-st-albans/story-fn7x8me2-1226116993730

All the results prove to me is that your average Australian knows bugger all about dog behaviour and even less about APBTs.

A majority vote isn't an indication of the merit of a proposal.

[Silvawilow]

What a tragic experience for all of the family involved to have to experience We have a 3yr old daughter and I can't imagine how heartbroken I'd be if we lost her.