j Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/war-dogs-death-draws-rspca-ire/2260887.aspx War dog's death draws RSPCA ire BY CHRISTOPHER KNAUS 17 Aug, 2011 04:00 AM The probable death of a bomb detector dog in Afghanistan has sparked heated criticism of the ACT Government, after it was revealed Domestic Animal Services released the animal to Defence last year. Lucky, a specially trained golden labrador, broke away from a Special Forces unit during a fire fight in Helmand Province on July 4. Small arms and rocket propelled grenade fire had prevented soldiers from retrieving Lucky, and the Defence Force mounted a concerted campaign to locate the dog. Lucky has still not been found more than a month after the battle and Defence confirmed yesterday they believed the labrador was probably killed in the fighting. It was yesterday revealed to the The Canberra Times that Lucky was originally from Canberra and had been kept in the pound before being given by Domestic Animal Services to Defence in July 2010. The RSPCA has delivered a sharp rebuke to the ACT Government for intentionally putting Lucky into harm's way. RSPCA ACT chief executive officer Michael Linke said it was ''totally inappropriate'' for a pound to be releasing dogs into an environment where they could be hurt or killed. ''We would hope that the pound and the Government immediately review its policy on this, and bring it into line with the RSPCA policy,'' Mr Linke said. ''We won't home dogs into police combat situations, or military combat situations or bomb detector [roles]. We don't believe that governments and pounds should be doing that either.'' The fire fight in which Lucky was lost also caused the death of Sergeant Todd Langley. The Defence department delayed announcing Lucky's disappearance and probable death until it exhausted all avenues in searching for him, including offering a reward in the local area. The local Government responds to yesterdays article http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/govt-backs-decision-to-give-lucky-up/2262435.aspx Govt backs decision to give Lucky up BY CHRISTOPHER KNAUS 18 Aug, 2011 09:16 AM The ACT Government has defended giving to Defence a stray Canberra dog who has died in an Afghan war zone, saying the alternative would have been to put it down. Lucky, a specially trained golden retriever/Labrador cross, was lost after a firefight between special forces units and insurgents in Helmand Province on July 4. The special forces unit was unable to retrieve Lucky amid heavy enemy fire. Defence confirmed on Tuesday that it had been unable to locate Lucky and it believed the dog had died. Lucky was a stray dog kept in the ACT pound, before being given to Defence by Domestic Animal Services in July 2010. Territory and Municipal Services Minister Simon Corbell said the Defence Force provided extremely good care for the animals. ''They get great levels of attention,'' Mr Corbell said. ''They get training, they get great food, constant companionship from humans, and there's an enormous amount of love and care.'' Mr Corbell believed he would have been put down if he had stayed at the pound. ''This dog would have been euthanised,'' he said. ''It's wrong to suggest that dogs should not be housed with the defence force.'' The ACT chief for the RSPCA, Michael Linke, urged the Government to follow his organisation's policy of not releasing animals into environments where they may come to harm. Mr Corbell said the policy of the Government was to give dogs into loving homes. Edited August 18, 2011 by j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 I'm not usually one to criticise RSPCA ACT, but on this occasion, I think Michael Linke is just pushing the political barrow. In order to keep their shelter "no kill" stats, they transfer dogs to DAS that they are unable to rehome. Sure, they may not deliberately release dogs to the Services, but in many cases, these are dogs that will not be sucessfully rehomed elsewhere. There are no guarantees when ANY dog is rehomed that it won't be treated cruelly, run over or neglected. For the most part, dogs that work in the service love the work and are treated as well, if not better, than many family pets. RIP Lucky AND Sergeant Todd Langley, who is basically forgotten in this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilly Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Are the RSPCA trying to be funny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolving Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 So the RSPCA would prefer a dog get killed in the Shelter if it can not be rehomed than for it to find a new home and a job that it was suited for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) RSPCA ACT chief executive officer Michael Linke said it was ''totally inappropriate'' for a pound to be releasing dogs into an environment where they could be hurt or killed.''We would hope that the pound and the Government immediately review its policy on this, and bring it into line with the RSPCA policy,'' Mr Linke said. ''We won't home dogs into police combat situations, or military combat situations or bomb detector [roles]. We don't believe that governments and pounds should be doing that either.'' On the other hand, killing them because they are far too high drive for your average pet home is OK? :rolleyes: These dogs have been surrendered because families can't cope.. what other options are there. I think the RSPCA is seriously out of step on this one. Lets see them shut down puppy farms and the live sheep and cattle trades - now THOSE are real animal welfare issue. Edited August 16, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 Does anyone from any of the ACT rescue groups remember this dog? Just interested to know if it did actually come from DAS. There are photos on the link to the story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Sitting here reading this thinking....... I wonder if this is a lead up to something bigger as far as the use of dogs for this and similar work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 ''We won't home dogs into police combat situations, or military combat situations or bomb detector [roles]. We don't believe that governments and pounds should be doing that either.'' How strange, I guess the RSPCA shelter at Yagoona is a bit behind the times with this policy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Is it only ACT RSPCA policy or it a national thing, I don't recall ever hearing of it before this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbesotted Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) more c#@p from the RSPCA.. what drivel. what hypocracy. I am really sad for Lucky, but the RSPCA is well out of line with those comments. H I must also add : RIP Sergeant Todd Langley and RIP Lucky and thank you for your pride and courage. Edited August 17, 2011 by dogbesotted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheilaheel02 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) The Army has travelled from Sydney previously to test local dogs including DAS and Queanbeyan Pound and taken dogs back with them for induction into the training program. The soldiers who visited two of my foster dogs here were consumate professionals, but it was also clearly evident that they were genuine dog lovers. They thought that both dogs I put forward were brilliant candidates, however, neither of the dogs passed the firearms test. While I know that not all members of our group supported my decision at the time, if both or either dog had passed I was comfortable for them to go off and be trained to do this critically important work. These dogs work side by side with their handlers in the field and I'm sure that while their jobs are not without great risk, and at the request of their country, neither of them would ever knowingly put each other in harms way. One of my former foster dogs, Frosty, would have easily passed all the Army testing, however, she was adopted just prior to them meeting her by a non-military professional dog trainer. She is now a trained domestic explosives and narcotics detection dog along with another of my foster dogs from DAS. Yet another ACDR dog has been trained initially by this company and went on to be a Cane Toad detector dog on Groote Eylandt for the Council there. His name is Rusty, he came from Hawkesbury Pound intially and he also features in a documentary about dogs with extraordinary jobs. Two of these dogs came from domestic pet homes and ended up in the pound system. Frosty was on her way there as her owner could not cope with her at all. I had to decline several new pet home applications for her because I knew that while they would love her they could not provide her with the stimulation and training she required. I had her in my foster care for over a year prior to her starting this training. I can also vouch for the fact that some other dogs purchased as 'pets' from pounds can and do end up in far more dangerous and desperate situations, often with sub-standard care, than the fortunate ones being taken on and trained for important tasks where they are well cared for and highly valued members of a team. PF is right, many of the high drive working dogs won't be adopted into a domestic pet home or necessarily go into foster care, so they end up spending several days in a highly stressful environment before being put to sleep anyway. I have agreed with Michael Linke on a range of other subjects in the past, however, I have to respectfully say that I think on this issue he has gotten it drastically wrong! RIP Sergeant Todd Langley and RIP Lucky and thank you for your pride and courage. S Edited August 17, 2011 by Sheilaheel02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Is it only ACT RSPCA policy or it a national thing, I don't recall ever hearing of it before this. I am guessing it is only a ACT policy as the pound at Yagoona has rehomed dogs for training in these roles as little as 3 months ago when I assisted someone with temperament assessing a dog for explosives detection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Andrea Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) Ditto what Sheilaheel02 said. I support alot of what RSPCA ACT here does but this is certainly the exception. One of my former foster dogs "Andy" if you look it up was an EDD dog in the army - he was weeks ahead of his class when he went in and clearly needed a job to do. He was unfortunately killed in an off-lead training exercise but accidents happen in all lines of work, and while I'm sad for him I know he was always destined for something else. I also had him for 9 months without rehoming success because he was just "too much dog" for the average pet home. He detected a fire nearby, he would go for 5-10 km runs with me and come straight in the yard running around with the other dogs, always on alert, always watching our fence lines. There are many dogs like this that need jobs to do and are just too much for the average pet owner. I certainly would rather any of my high energy dogs be given a chance to do a job than have their life cut short prematurely by a lethal needle. I recently had a call from the army recruiters asking about a kelpie in care - while she already had a home to go to and was certainly too laid back to be suitable, if she didn't have a home waiting and I thought it was the right move for her/she was a likely suitable candidate, I would have no hesitation sending her on for testing.... As Shaz said, these dogs are treated like one of their comrades - they love them like a mate..........far better than some dogs I see regularly around the place languising in backyards bored out of their brain and lucky to get the occasional pat...or roaming regularly... Edited August 17, 2011 by Just Andrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphra Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I know someone who was deployed as a dog handler in Afghanistan with his bomb detection dog. The handlers live 24/7 with their dogs and do as much as they possibly can to look after them. I know how much this handler cared for his dog and had something happened to her he would have been devastated. It's an incredibly dangerous job for dog and human. I truly hate the idea that a dog is put in such a situation when they have no choice; but then, I hate the idea of humans being put in such a situation as well. The hard reality is that in this area the priority is human life over a dog's life, that's why they have front line dogs. I don't know as I'd like to be deciding on who is more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I think the next time a dog is accidently killed by a car or anything else really, that originally was sold by the rspca they should be contacted and told to stop selling dogs to the public! What a ridiculous statement and I'm disappointed that the one good branch has come out with this. Those high drive dogs usually end up in bags, but I guess that is preferable to living a good life with a chance of death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottnBullies Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I can also vouch for the fact that some other dogs purchased as 'pets' from pounds can and do end up in far more dangerous and desperate situations, often with sub-standard care, than the fortunate ones being taken on and trained for important tasks where they are well cared for and highly valued members of a team. PF is right, many of the high drive working dogs won't be adopted into a domestic pet home or necessarily go into foster care, so they end up spending several days in a highly stressful environment before being put to sleep anyway. S I hate to ask, but what are these 'other' situations you speak of? Or do you just mean dogs being adopted Into private homes then not being cared for etc? RIP Sergeant Todd Langley and RIP Lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdog2 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) I am fostering a RAAF Military Working Dog (MWD) puppy at the moment and I know he could well end up in Afganistan one day . However in the meantime I know he is going to get the BEST treatment and have the MOST fun a dog could wish for 24/7. Lucky obviously showed some potential to be offered to the Military otherwise they wouldn't accept him. More often than not the potential he would have shown would have made him difficult to rehome into a domestic situation, so what sort of life was the RSPCA expecting him to have? I feel privileged to have my MWD puppy for a few months before he starts his real (and very important) training, and if he saves one life the work that the Military do with him will be worth it. Edited August 17, 2011 by gsdog2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheilaheel02 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 RnB, I was told that based on anti-discrimination laws, certain Govt and Council run pounds are not allowed to refuse a dog which has been deemed rehomable to any member of the public wishing to purchase it. So, if I wanted to go in next week and buy several dogs to treat however I wanted and to use for whatever unethical purpose I chose, but told the unsuspecting staff at the counter that they would be kept as my loved pets only, there is little they could do. The only exception might be if they were aware of or had proof that I had been charged with animal cruelty or similar previously. Just one real-life example without going into too much detail on a public forum, and because the full details make me feel physically ill: I rang the local pound and basically begged them not to sell yet another poor dog to a particular individual who was not fit to own any animal and was at times a threat to other human beings, but was told they did not have the power decline the purchase. Other dogs owned by this person had ended up in the same pound and were in such a physically and mentally distressed state they were not allowed to be rescued or on-sold. I was looking into other possible alternatives to keep these dogs out of a very bad situation, but ended up having to shelve those efforts while I focussed on legal options for protecting my own personal safety. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottnBullies Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Ok thanks for that Sheila I would think that previous proof of this person's dogs state they're In would be enough to warrant a NO! I guess It's really a red tape area then that certainly needs to be looked into and sorted out for the dogs sake. And this Is where Orgs such as the RSPCA with so much power need to be doing their jobs which they clearly aren't and not nit picking on trivial stuff Power unto those that don't deserve to have It! That's really helping our companion animals Isn't It! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9angel Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) I think it is fantastic these dogs are given a chance like that. Lucky went from pound dog to Hero. R.I.P. to two brave soldiers. Edited August 17, 2011 by k9angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now