suziwong66 Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) I've posted this in the 'those crazy labs' thread but decided to double post here where there's more traffic and more topic appropriate. Went to our local vet (whom i've been using for the past 6 years) for Wilbur's check up that the breeder advised us to do. There were several issues that i had with the vet that i interacted with but her encouragement for a procedure was the most upsetting of the issues. I've never come across her before. Apparently she works in one of the other 2 practices within the group. Anyhoo, i feel very uneasy as this young woman gave me the distinct impression that she was encouraging me to a) get Wilbur desexed asap (in fact assumed that i would do it by 20 weeks max) and b) have a Juvenile Pubic Symphysiodesis procedure at the same time. She inferred that this procedure will be good for Wilbur however offered no quantitative data to support why i should allow him to have an invasive procedure. I have, since getting home, done a little more research and have found that even PennHip don't advocate this procedure. See below: "My vet has advised a surgical procedure to avoid the development of arthritis in my dog later in life based on the results of his PennHIP examination. Should I have my dog operated on? Answer: Until appropriate randomized and controlled clinical trials are designed and conducted, it is premature to use the Distraction Index as an indication for hip surgery, either remedial or preventive. At present several different surgical procedures (Triple pelvic osteotomy, Juvenile symphysiodesis) have been advocated by some veterinary surgeons to prevent the development of arthritis (degenerative joint disease) later in life in dogs with excess joint laxity (loose hips). None of these procedures have undergone scientific clinical trials that have proven THEIR EFFICACY in preventing the onset or slowing the development of arthritis in dogs with hip dysplasia. Although WE ARE not fundamentally against the use of preventative surgical management of dogs with excessive hip laxity, WE FEEL THE WHOLESALE CLINICAL USE OF PURPORTEDLY PREVENTIVE SURGICAL PROCEDURES BEFORE ADEQUATE TESTING IS CONDUCTED, IS UNJUSTIFIED. WE ADVISE CAUTION! It may be that in the future when good evidence exists to support the efficacy of these procedures their use will be encouraged." At this point in time I cannot see why this procedure is necessary. A) Wilbur is not limping or showing other signs of HD; B) both his parents have excellent HD scores and; Wilbur has a healthy diet of both raw meaty bones and premium large breed dog food (Royal Canin Junior Lab) and has no formal exercise program to prevent stress on his joints. For at least the first six months he will only have natural play exercise in the back yard. Additionally i have no desire to have him desexed until he is at least 12 months old. I would prefer that his body matures naturally before desexing. So...i'd like your positively delivered, constructive opinions....not on what i should do but what you would do why you would do it...and any supporting evidence would be welcomed with an open mind thanks for your input. Edited August 15, 2011 by suziwong66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 At this point in time I cannot see why this procedure is necessary. A) Wilbur is not limping or showing other signs of HD; B) both his parents have excellent HD scores and; Wilbur has a healthy diet of both raw meaty bones and premium large breed dog food (Royal Canin Junior Lab) and has no formal exercise program to prevent stress on his joints. For at least the first six months he will only have natural play exercise in the back yard. Additionally i have no desire to have him desexed until he is at least 12 months old. I would prefer that his body matures naturally before desexing. There's your reasons why NOT to do it. Speak to your breeder as well, I know if I bred the dog with all due care and a vet proposed that, I'd be livid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 There is no way in hell I would do that when there are no signs of discomfort in the dog. I am extremely cautious about accepting something as a preventative measure, particularly to prevent something as variable and multi-factorial as arthritis in later years. It is so easy to say "Ha, no arthritis, good thing we did that preventative surgery when he was a pup!" I can't remember where I saw it, but I remember seeing x-rays of a young dog's hips that were considered dysplastic. They were considering surgery, but didn't do it. Six months later another x-ray revealed the hips were much improved. A few months later there was no sign of a problem at all in the x-rays. I think dogs should be given a chance to correct any problems during their growing phase before surgery is done unless the dog is in severe discomfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordogs Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Suzi, do a search on here and you will find a few related threads on this. As a breeder I have had issues with vets that have recommended this on GSD puppies that I have bred. They are after your money. Move on to another vet ASAP or have it out with your present vet NOW and let them know JUST WHERE YOU STAND ON THE SUBJECT. Ask on line here for recommendations for vets in your area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I agree- go and find a vet who is not going to just see a lab and assume it will have hip problems later in life. I am going to go out on a limb and assume that any future health problems will also be diagnosed based on breed . You have every right to feel uncomfortable about a diagnosis made with no testing as it is completely incorrect. Please talk the manager at your clinic about this as well as your regular veterinarian to ensure other people do not get the wrong advice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) There is no way in hell I would do that when there are no signs of discomfort in the dog. I am extremely cautious about accepting something as a preventative measure, particularly to prevent something as variable and multi-factorial as arthritis in later years. It is so easy to say "Ha, no arthritis, good thing we did that preventative surgery when he was a pup!" I can't remember where I saw it, but I remember seeing x-rays of a young dog's hips that were considered dysplastic. They were considering surgery, but didn't do it. Six months later another x-ray revealed the hips were much improved. A few months later there was no sign of a problem at all in the x-rays. I think dogs should be given a chance to correct any problems during their growing phase before surgery is done unless the dog is in severe discomfort. Suzi, do a search on here and you will find a few related threads on this. As a breeder I have had issues with vets that have recommended this on GSD puppies that I have bred. They are after your money. Move on to another vet ASAP or have it out with your present vet NOW and let them know JUST WHERE YOU STAND ON THE SUBJECT. Ask on line here for recommendations for vets in your area. Thank you both for your input. Fordogs, i've already read the related threads on DOL; they were most informative, thanks for the suggestion though. My position, with information i've found from various sources, is that the procedure is presented as 'preventive' but in no way is preventive - there is no a) no quantitative data supporting its validity as preventive and b) Wilbur presents no problems at this time. The vet in question is one of the hired vets from a two-principal-vet multi locational practice (there are approximately 10 vets who have earned various degrees and level of qualification.) I'm not sure that she was following practice protocol regarding pushing products and procedures or not, however I will be asking for another vet when I go back for vaccinations in two week; if i am 'marketed to' again i shall start looking for another service provider. There were other issues that i had with the visit; i felt highly 'marketed at' re food and pet insurance. Additionally when i asked her about the information i had found regarding Wilbur's overbite, she couldn't conform it; her response was "i don't know". Perhaps i was asking too much of her, but I didn't think it would be outside a vets knowledge base to verify whether or not the mandible is a very slow growing bone that can take up to 10 months to fully develop; maybe her degree was less specific in the area of canine anatomy?? who knows. Her response was that in her experience (which of course has its limits) overbites and underbites never self correct. I responded that I was aware that underbites don't self correct but have heard from a number of sources that overbites can and do self correct. I was struck at the vets reluctance to enter into conversation about these issues with me; rather she gave her opinions without any supporting data; when i questioned her, she didn't/wouldn't/couldn't/failed to respond further. Am i being too picky in thinking an opinion, even an educated one, has its limitations unless supported by evidence from rigorous research? For me, as an educated professional, qualitative and quantitative evidence is very important in justifying my position on any given issue in my (or any) domain. I would never discuss an issue with a client without presenting the available data that justifies the position I have taken or in other words my educated opinion would come with the relevant data as I would never expect a client to accept my educated opinion on its own or assume that my educated opinion has been informed with up to date with current research. Edited August 16, 2011 by suziwong66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 There is no way in hell I would do that when there are no signs of discomfort in the dog. I am extremely cautious about accepting something as a preventative measure, particularly to prevent something as variable and multi-factorial as arthritis in later years. It is so easy to say "Ha, no arthritis, good thing we did that preventative surgery when he was a pup!" I can't remember where I saw it, but I remember seeing x-rays of a young dog's hips that were considered dysplastic. They were considering surgery, but didn't do it. Six months later another x-ray revealed the hips were much improved. A few months later there was no sign of a problem at all in the x-rays. I think dogs should be given a chance to correct any problems during their growing phase before surgery is done unless the dog is in severe discomfort. Suzi, do a search on here and you will find a few related threads on this. As a breeder I have had issues with vets that have recommended this on GSD puppies that I have bred. They are after your money. Move on to another vet ASAP or have it out with your present vet NOW and let them know JUST WHERE YOU STAND ON THE SUBJECT. Ask on line here for recommendations for vets in your area. Thank you both for your input. Fordogs, i've already read the related threads on DOL; they were most informative, thanks for the suggestion though. My position, with information i've found from various sources, is that the procedure is presented as 'preventive' but in no way is preventive - there is no a) no quantitative data supporting its validity as preventive and b) Wilbur presents no problems at this time. The vet in question is one of the hired vets from a two-principal-vet multi locational practice (there are approximately 10 vets who have earned various degrees and level of qualification.) I'm not sure that she was following practice protocol regarding pushing products and procedures or not, however I will be asking for another vet when I go back for vaccinations in two week; if i am 'marketed to' again i shall start looking for another service provider. There were other issues that i had with the visit; i felt highly 'marketed at' re food and pet insurance. Additionally when i asked her about the information i had found regarding Wilbur's overbite, she couldn't conform it; her response was "i don't know". Perhaps i was asking too much of her, but I didn't think it would be outside a vets knowledge base to verify whether or not the mandible is a very slow growing bone that can take up to 10 months to fully develop; maybe her degree was less specific in the area of canine anatomy?? who knows. Her response was that in her experience (which of course has its limits) overbites and underbites never self correct. I responded that I was aware that underbites don't self correct but have heard from a number of sources that overbites can and do self correct. I was struck at the vets reluctance to enter into conversation about these issues with me; rather she gave her opinions without any supporting data; when i questioned her, she didn't/wouldn't/couldn't/failed to respond further. Am i being too picky in thinking an opinion, even an educated one, has its limitations unless supported by evidence from rigorous research? For me, as an educated professional, qualitative and quantitative evidence is very important in justifying my position on any given issue in my (or any) domain. I would never discuss an issue with a client without presenting the available data that justifies the position I have taken or in other words my educated opinion would come with the relevant data as I would never expect a client to accept my educated opinion on its own or assume that my educated opinion has been informed with up to date with current research. In the past when I have a vet that didn't know the answer their solution has been to investigate- look in text books, email other more knowledgeable people etc. Vets are taught the basics, but are also taught where to look when they don't know something because lets face it- it is going to happen. It sounds like you would like a veterinarian that is going to go the extra mile- that is not being unreasonable BUT you won't necessarily get that from every veterinarian you meet- simply because the average pet owner will just accept what they are being told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) There is no way in hell I would do that when there are no signs of discomfort in the dog. I am extremely cautious about accepting something as a preventative measure, particularly to prevent something as variable and multi-factorial as arthritis in later years. It is so easy to say "Ha, no arthritis, good thing we did that preventative surgery when he was a pup!" I can't remember where I saw it, but I remember seeing x-rays of a young dog's hips that were considered dysplastic. They were considering surgery, but didn't do it. Six months later another x-ray revealed the hips were much improved. A few months later there was no sign of a problem at all in the x-rays. I think dogs should be given a chance to correct any problems during their growing phase before surgery is done unless the dog is in severe discomfort. Suzi, do a search on here and you will find a few related threads on this. As a breeder I have had issues with vets that have recommended this on GSD puppies that I have bred. They are after your money. Move on to another vet ASAP or have it out with your present vet NOW and let them know JUST WHERE YOU STAND ON THE SUBJECT. Ask on line here for recommendations for vets in your area. Thank you both for your input. Fordogs, i've already read the related threads on DOL; they were most informative, thanks for the suggestion though. My position, with information i've found from various sources, is that the procedure is presented as 'preventive' but in no way is preventive - there is no a) no quantitative data supporting its validity as preventive and b) Wilbur presents no problems at this time. The vet in question is one of the hired vets from a two-principal-vet multi locational practice (there are approximately 10 vets who have earned various degrees and level of qualification.) I'm not sure that she was following practice protocol regarding pushing products and procedures or not, however I will be asking for another vet when I go back for vaccinations in two week; if i am 'marketed to' again i shall start looking for another service provider. There were other issues that i had with the visit; i felt highly 'marketed at' re food and pet insurance. Additionally when i asked her about the information i had found regarding Wilbur's overbite, she couldn't conform it; her response was "i don't know". Perhaps i was asking too much of her, but I didn't think it would be outside a vets knowledge base to verify whether or not the mandible is a very slow growing bone that can take up to 10 months to fully develop; maybe her degree was less specific in the area of canine anatomy?? who knows. Her response was that in her experience (which of course has its limits) overbites and underbites never self correct. I responded that I was aware that underbites don't self correct but have heard from a number of sources that overbites can and do self correct. I was struck at the vets reluctance to enter into conversation about these issues with me; rather she gave her opinions without any supporting data; when i questioned her, she didn't/wouldn't/couldn't/failed to respond further. Am i being too picky in thinking an opinion, even an educated one, has its limitations unless supported by evidence from rigorous research? For me, as an educated professional, qualitative and quantitative evidence is very important in justifying my position on any given issue in my (or any) domain. I would never discuss an issue with a client without presenting the available data that justifies the position I have taken or in other words my educated opinion would come with the relevant data as I would never expect a client to accept my educated opinion on its own or assume that my educated opinion has been informed with up to date with current research. In the past when I have a vet that didn't know the answer their solution has been to investigate- look in text books, email other more knowledgeable people etc. Vets are taught the basics, but are also taught where to look when they don't know something because lets face it- it is going to happen. It sounds like you would like a veterinarian that is going to go the extra mile (do the research so that they can answer your questions properly)- that is not being unreasonable BUT you won't necessarily get that from every veterinarian you meet- simply because the average pet owner will just accept what they are being told. This doesn't make them a bad vet- it just makes them an average one. I would ask around here on DOL to find a veterinarian who is keeping up to date with everything. I use a holistic vet with my dogs because they are up to date with the latest research and are very proactive in keeping dogs healthy rather than reactive. However at the same time they don't do this with heaps of procedures, more focusing on regular check ups, good diet and exercise. I am thinking this is the type of vet/practice you are looking for?? They are out there!! You just need to find one. Edited August 16, 2011 by ~Woofen~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskedaway Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Whereabouts are you located Suzi? I'm sure some of the other SA people can recommend good vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 There is a lady in the lab thread on here who's dog had an overbite from puppy, not sure if it ever improved etc but I will try and remember her screen name though. As for the surgical procedure I agree with someone elses comment find another vet. I do agree with having Pet Insurance though, I have claimed about $7000 in 2 years so its worth it for me and will have it again for the new pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montage Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I started another thread a few months ago. We took Baxter in for a check up and I mentioned one of his back legs was a bit sore. The vet strongly encouraged us to have our puppies hip x-rayed and started pushing the procedure onto us. We immediately got another opinion and there is NOTHING wrong with our dogs hips. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same clinic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Danni Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 You might find that an overbite in a medium to large breed will self correct. I have found them to be more common in males than females and I think it is because the male puppy skull grows so quickly and sometimes the lower jaw does not grow at the same rate. Once the skull stops galloping away, the jaw should have a chance to catch up. So if the overbite is mild, dont panic but keep a close eye on it. In regards to the surgery, if you have read through the other threads, you will have seen my posts. My advice is speak to the practice manager and if this is the policy of the practice, change vets pronto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) There is a lady in the lab thread on here who's dog had an overbite from puppy, not sure if it ever improved etc but I will try and remember her screen name though. As for the surgical procedure I agree with someone elses comment find another vet. I do agree with having Pet Insurance though, I have claimed about $7000 in 2 years so its worth it for me and will have it again for the new pup. Do you mean 'TornSocks' or a profile something like that? if yes, i've read those threads. If not, i'd be very appreciative of the name when/if you remember. taa. I'm not against Pet Insurance, i am however against being 'marketed to' at a vet visit that i have specifically arranged and paid for, with the purpose of a general health check along with a specific focus of Wilbur's mouth. I have approached a pet insurance company for more information which i may or may not take further and initiate a policy. I like to make independent choices without pressure from a vet who may or may not have an economic or other arrangement with the insurance company to 'encourage' pet owners to invest in insurance; the lack of transparency of such arrangements rankles me. I totally agree you have gotten your money's worth with claims of $7000, but i'm not entirely sure yet, that it's worth my while to invest rather than just putting money away 'just in case'...but i'm still analysing what's the best course of action for us long term. i applied online for an info pack of one pet insurance company. I had barely hit 'enter' of the online request form (i'm talking less than 10 seconds) when the phone rang; guess who it was? I told the lovely lady, firmly (while laughing at the irony of the situation) that the reason i applied for the info pack online was because i didn't want to interface with anyone from the insurance company and that when and if i was ready to ask questions or apply for a policy i'd be more than happy to interface with someone but until that time i'd appreciate it i wasn't continually contacted. I had barely finished speaking when she asked if i would like her to ring back when the info pack arrived for her to walk me through it i thanked her politely but declined Edited August 17, 2011 by suziwong66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) There is a lady in the lab thread on here who's dog had an overbite from puppy, not sure if it ever improved etc but I will try and remember her screen name though. As for the surgical procedure I agree with someone elses comment find another vet. I do agree with having Pet Insurance though, I have claimed about $7000 in 2 years so its worth it for me and will have it again for the new pup. Do you mean 'TornSocks' or a profile something like that? if yes, i've read those threads. If not, i'd be very appreciative of the name when/if you remember. taa. I'm not against Pet Insurance, i am however against being 'marketed to' at a vet visit that i have specifically arranged and paid for, with the purpose of a general health check along with a specific focus of Wilbur's mouth. I have approached a pet insurance company for more information which i may or may not take further and initiate a policy. I like to make independent choices without pressure from a vet who may or may not have an economic or other arrangement with the insurance company to 'encourage' pet owners to invest in insurance; the lack of transparency of such arrangements rankles me. I totally agree you have gotten your money's worth with claims of $7000, but i'm not entirely sure yet, that it's worth my while to invest rather than just putting money away 'just in case'...but i'm still analysing what's the best course of action for us long term. i applied online for an info pack of one pet insurance company. I had barely hit 'enter' of the online request form (i'm talking less than 10 seconds) when the phone rang; guess who it was? I told the lovely lady, firmly (while laughing at the irony of the situation) that the reason i applied for the info pack online was because i didn't want to interface with anyone from the insurance company and that when and if i was ready to ask questions or apply for a policy i'd be more than happy to interface with someone but until that time i'd appreciate it i wasn't continually contacted. I had barely finished speaking when she asked if i would like her to ring back when the info pack arrived for her to walk me through it i thanked her politely but declined Just with regards to a vet getting kick backs- as far as I know they don't. It is being heavily marketed because it is a relatively new product that many customers wouldn't know about and it has saved many dogs lives. Its nice to know when a dog has insurance because as a vet you can offer the very best care without having as many financial limitations that limit your ability to quickly diagnose and offer the best treatment. Yes this is possible without insurance but vets can't assume either way so offering insurance is a great method of ensuring you can give your patients the best care you possibly can. It probably sounds now that I am marketing to you . I promise I have nothing to do with any insurance company, I have just seen many pets where we have had financial constraints when it comes to treatment- and I am a big sook when it comes to dogs Edited August 17, 2011 by ~Woofen~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Suzie it is MRs Tornsocks I just hit a blank when I posted yesterday. I would encourage people who get a new pup to take out insurance ( and I promise I get no money from anyone lol) I have seen people time and time again get a new pup and then something comes up ( allergies, dog gets a limp and needs an xray etc) and if you take it out now when your pup has no pre-exisiting conditions you will be covered for everything. If after a while when the pup is fully grown you dont want it then you can just cancel but I think it is worthwhile, my dog had some blood tests the other day ( non allergy related) $500 later and my policy had paid for itself for the year. Lots of people put money away instead, thats fine, but if you put $5000 and your dog has an operation or gets sick and it costs $5000 you are still out of pocket instead of paying the +- $500 premium for the year - This is just my feelings on it so i am sorry if it offends you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 a GOOD pet insurance plan is worth it!!! Get it while you can- ie before any problems crop up. I don't have it and I have to pay up $50 a week for special cream for my allergy dog, plus regular specialist visits, antibiotics, antihistamines, desensitization injections and we may have to start on expensive immunosupressive therapy later on. I am lucky to get a discount on these things but it still adds up and I wish I had gotten pet insurance. Many emergency vets charge upward of $200 just to walk in the door, so pet insurance is something I would definitely recommend. As far as i know, vets don't get a kickback or anything. I know we recommend several different types of pet insurance where I work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Masons antihistamines alone are $90 a month... His immunotheraly is cheap as he reacts so only $350 a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teekay Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Your search probably turned up my posts about Jenna and the JPS proceedure which we decided to go ahead with 2 years ago. I do not advocate the wholesale use of this merely based on breed, but with it being a 'preventative' procedure it is practically impossible to know it's efficacy. As someone pointed out, just because a dog who has the operation, grows up with no hip problems does not mean the operation was a success. You will never know if the dog would have had problems without it. It was a very difficult decision for us. By the time any hip problems begin to show it is too late to do the JPS and other surgical options at this point are much more invasive. My worry, at the time, was if I was going to actually cause problems for Jenna by going ahead with the operation. I am very happy to report that, so far, Jenna is showing no sign of any problems at all. Again, I know that could've been the case if we did nothing. I guess we'll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Suzie it is MRs Tornsocks I just hit a blank when I posted yesterday. I would encourage people who get a new pup to take out insurance ( and I promise I get no money from anyone lol) I have seen people time and time again get a new pup and then something comes up ( allergies, dog gets a limp and needs an xray etc) and if you take it out now when your pup has no pre-exisiting conditions you will be covered for everything. If after a while when the pup is fully grown you dont want it then you can just cancel but I think it is worthwhile, my dog had some blood tests the other day ( non allergy related) $500 later and my policy had paid for itself for the year. Lots of people put money away instead, thats fine, but if you put $5000 and your dog has an operation or gets sick and it costs $5000 you are still out of pocket instead of paying the +- $500 premium for the year - This is just my feelings on it so i am sorry if it offends you. Good lord no i'm not offended; i'm happy to hear of your choices and experiences I'm not against pet insurance; I'm just still at the stage of trying to analyse whether it's actually worth it for us or not; the odds are in our favour that our pets won't get sick, but obviously one never knows how the dice will roll. Insurance companies work and succeed on the premise of capitalising on the fear of the odds being against us. To be financially successful they need the odds of pets being healthy to be in their favour; otherwise they'd go broke. In 24 years of owning large dogs we've never really had enormous vet or medication bills. The worst was when Casper had some unkown reaction when we lived in Darwin. We nearly lost him The vet bill was the biggest we'd ever had but still not what i'd call crazy big. What differing policies offer will help determine the worth of taking out a policy. Lord knows our (human) health insurance company have had the better deal over the past 24 years of membership...It almost gave me a sense of glee this year though; my miss18 has had 3 surgical procedures (as an in-patient) on her toe and we only paid $30 for the surgeon and a few meds While i was almost feeling the glee of getting the best out of our policy this year, i firmly ignored that over the course of 24 years, the insurance company has had the better deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 You have been very lucky then i had good luck with all my prior animals, its just that Mason has special needs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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