"alpha Dog" Opinions Please

[Guest HarperGD]

Lavendergirl - Harper is a mini poodle and has always been, in my opinion, a "lap dog." That's what we wanted in a dog, that's what we got.

I would hate to teach him that being close to us is "wrong" because to me, that defeats his purpose in our lives...

And corvus, I agree with you, I was worried that it was true separation anxiety, hence why I called a trainer. But as I said, he has improved since we got to my parent's house (he has been there over a week now, I only just arrived) and is much more relaxed now when he's left alone, hence why I'm still of the opinion that his crying etc. was a result of my partner leaving and the house being turned upside-down.

Maybe he thought OH leaving and not coming back meant that me leaving was going to mean me not coming back too.

I don't know, wish you could read their minds sometimes!!

Anyway, I will monitor him over the next few weeks and if it looks like he's going backwards again and is showing true separation anxiety then the vet is the first place I will go.

What you mention - a tailored strategy, was what I originally wanted from the trainer, but was obviously not what I got.

[corvus]

But there is still food for thought....Alot of trainers suscribe to the opinion of you control every aspect of your dogs life and interations....especially around high value items in the eyes of dogs. Food, play and pack....

Different trainers have different reasons for this. From a behavioural modification perspective, the point is to train deference into your dog. This means they are so used to doing something for you in order to get access to something they want, it doesn't occur to them to challenge you over access. In a strict sense, dominance in animals is about priority access to resources. So by subscribing to Nothing In Life Is Free or a similar deference protocol (e.g. ToT) you teach the dog to default to 'asking' for access to resources instead of attempting to take them by force or defend them from you.

All the actions listed by your trainer can increase the perception in the dogs eyes that it is equal ir higher then everyone else int he pack.

That is debatable. Some dogs don't even play this game. In fact, most don't IMO. They don't want conflict. They just want the stuff they like and they do whatever has got them that stuff in the past. All you have to do to manage this is get them in the habit of performing behaviours you like in order to get the stuff they want. Then they just keep doing it. Yay.

[poodlefan]

Harper, separation anxiety is a behavioural issue. If you want to address it, you need a qualified behaviourist, not a trainer.

The most important thing to recognise about separation anxiety is that the owner plays a significant role in creating and sustaining it. It's the owner that has to change THEIR behaviour to assist improvement in the dog.

My guess is that with your partner gone, you are the entire world to your dog. Therefore, he feels you leaving is a big issue. Move him to your parents and his world expands - you leaving isn't such a big deal.

You could be subconciously feeding this behaviour and if leaving him alone stresses you, he'd be picking up on it.

Have you attended a dog training club with him yet on a regular basis?

Edited August 15, 2011 by poodlefan

[Weasels]

My inlaws had many dogs over the years and they never trained any of them.They said they didn't believe you had to train a dog and that they would learn themselves what was expected of them,oddly enough they never had any behavior problems with their dogs.Myself,i spent the last 40 years training my dogs and like you i always worried if i was doing the right thing the right way.Up untill a few days ago i would have agreed with what the trainer told you.However i have discovered through this forum that there are new and modern methods and other opinions.So before i get my next dog i will research all the alternatives and forming my own opinions and finding what suits me and my dog.I think you need to get 2nd or even 3rd opinions from different trainers like the ones mentioned on here,then go with what you feel comfortable with.

When you feel relaxed and confident with whatever method you choose the i am sure Harper will be too.

:D

Purdie I am so happy to hear you say this. Yay internets!

Unfortunately until recently there wasn't much interest in researching dogs because they were seen as 'unnatural' and too common (scientists want to study the cool exotic animals too). This is changing recently though, especially since the canine genome was sequenced, and we are getting so much great science on the behaviour and development of dogs. I am not a trainer but I am a zoologist and have studied dogs and foxes in the past, so I almost take it personally when people disregard all this cool work

I'm also a big advocate of tailoring your approach to your dog. I can understand Ali's opinion but by the look of their avatar I'd say Ali's dog and little Harper would not respond the same way to training. I even have to train my 2 kelpies differently though they are the same breed and about the same size!

Harper you know your dog better than anyone, don't ignore your instincts

Edited August 15, 2011 by Weasels

[GoldenGirl85]

HarperGD, have you thought about getting another dog for company for him. I have had multiple dogs for as long as I can remember, big , small, medium, and never trained any of them, they were household companions, not working dogs, and have never had a problem with any of them. I was always their top dog, so never had a dominance thing going. If you have to train a dog the way your trainer said, I can't see the point. He is probably taking the vibes from you and your situation, and reacting to them, and upset when you leave him alone, he thinks you are leaving him too.

Harper is a self confessed first time puppy owner and went through a lot of emotional highs and lows when she first got this puppy, the last thing she needs is another dog at this point

[JulesP]

Harper I think therapy is needed but I think it is you that needs it. I am honestly quite concerned about you and am not trying to be mean. If you aren't seeing a therapist I suggest that you think about it. You don't need to reply with any personal details btw.

[minxy]

Is there something we're missing??

[Gayle.]

Is there something we're missing??

check the OPs posting history. That speaks louder than any explanation could. And I agree with Jules.

[Christina]

May I suggest that you relax and enjoy your puppy while he is still a puppy, and stop trying to over-analyse every single whimper and cry?

Its a puppy. Its needs cuddles & love & a little firmness & common sense. Not what this "expert" has recommended. Glad you are questioning this, for once.

Like raising children, with dogs we all have our own ways & beliefs & the expert has theirs which you may not like & which are not always right. There is no right & wrong.

There is what works, variable for every dog.

Stop wasting your money & just love & treat the dog the way you want & have faith that you have some sense & can be firm & kind at the same time.

Throw the filming device away. Put the dog inside a room where he is least likely to be heard, give him a dose of Tranquil Paste ( get from a fodder store) may help & in a no fuss fashion go out & do what you need to do & forget about worrying about the dog.

The dog is this way because you are not relaxed. A cat would be a much better pet for you. They don't care about your anxiety & either like you or not & be themselves regardless.

[juice]

Waiting 2 months to see Steve is worth it. :D

One thing to consider, he maybe sitting politely to ask for affection, but he is still demanding it, if you didn't give it would it escalate to jumping up ,etc. ?

Make sure you do stuff on your terms, start teaching him to walk onlead properly. Try and relax and enjoy him, but don't pander to him so much, and get on the wait list

[corvus]

The most important thing to recognise about separation anxiety is that the owner plays a significant role in creating and sustaining it.

Not necessarily. There are a lot of potential variables involved.

Really, it is not well understood. To me, that is the most important thing to recognise about it. If you want help to treat it you need a specialist.

[Guest lavendergirl]

May I suggest that you relax and enjoy your puppy while he is still a puppy, and stop trying to over-analyse every single whimper and cry?

Its a puppy. Its needs cuddles & love & a little firmness & common sense. Not what this "expert" has recommended. Glad you are questioning this, for once.

Like raising children, with dogs we all have our own ways & beliefs & the expert has theirs which you may not like & which are not always right. There is no right & wrong.

There is what works, variable for every dog.

Stop wasting your money & just love & treat the dog the way you want & have faith that you have some sense & can be firm & kind at the same time.

Throw the filming device away. Put the dog inside a room where he is least likely to be heard, give him a dose of Tranquil Paste ( get from a fodder store) may help & in a no fuss fashion go out & do what you need to do & forget about worrying about the dog.

The dog is this way because you are not relaxed. A cat would be a much better pet for you. They don't care about your anxiety & either like you or not & be themselves regardless.

I haven't heard of Tranquil Paste before - is it meant for dogs or is it for generic animal use?

[Christina]

Tranquil paste is for horses but fine for dogs too. Never thought of using it on others ? Not a medication. A natural product containing Tryptophan, vitamin B1, magnesium & a few other vitamins & minerals. Has a soothing effect but does not make them dopey or go to sleep. Works a treat on my boys when girls are on heat & they are edgy. It helps with nervousness.

[Guest HarperGD]

And once again, what starts off as positive advice from DOL members turns into attacks.

I need to see a therapist? Thank you so much. You obviously don't have a partner in the defence forces and don't understand the emotional roller-coaster that puts you on when they leave to go overseas to do their job.

I'm not allowed to be stressed by that? Whoa. Nice.

And yeah, we had trouble adjusting when Harper came along but you don't get a glimpse into our everyday life so how dare you pass such cruel judgement? Are you that miserable in your own lives that you need to attack others?

Unbelievable. Truly. People can be so nasty when they can hide behind their username and their computer screen. Get a life, honestly. I would hate to see you on parenting forums.

I really do want to thank those of you who gave me constructive advice, because that was all I was after and it was very helpful. I just wanted an opinion on this trainer and her techniques and I believe I got that, so ta.

But thanks to you others, I'm very much done with posting here.

Pathetic.

[JulesP]

And once again, what starts off as positive advice from DOL members turns into attacks.

I need to see a therapist? Thank you so much. You obviously don't have a partner in the defence forces and don't understand the emotional roller-coaster that puts you on when they leave to go overseas to do their job.

I'm not allowed to be stressed by that? Whoa. Nice.

And yeah, we had trouble adjusting when Harper came along but you don't get a glimpse into our everyday life so how dare you pass such cruel judgement? Are you that miserable in your own lives that you need to attack others?

Unbelievable. Truly. People can be so nasty when they can hide behind their username and their computer screen. Get a life, honestly. I would hate to see you on parenting forums.

I really do want to thank those of you who gave me constructive advice, because that was all I was after and it was very helpful. I just wanted an opinion on this trainer and her techniques and I believe I got that, so ta.

But thanks to you others, I'm very much done with posting here.

Pathetic.

Actually Harper I post with my very own, real name. So I am not hiding anything.

I said quite clearly that I was concerned about you but if you choose to be hysterical then I guess that is up to you.

You have just been far nastier to me then I was to you.

Have a nice life.

[lashton]

Harper I think therapy is needed but I think it is you that needs it. I am honestly quite concerned about you and am not trying to be mean. If you aren't seeing a therapist I suggest that you think about it. You don't need to reply with any personal details btw.

OMG. Inappropriate much?! Harper is looking for advice from fellow dog owners after her partner left for the defence force and her puppy reacted in a very normal way. Someone needs a therapist, but it sure as hell isn't Harper...

[lashton]

And once again, what starts off as positive advice from DOL members turns into attacks.

I need to see a therapist? Thank you so much. You obviously don't have a partner in the defence forces and don't understand the emotional roller-coaster that puts you on when they leave to go overseas to do their job.

I'm not allowed to be stressed by that? Whoa. Nice.

And yeah, we had trouble adjusting when Harper came along but you don't get a glimpse into our everyday life so how dare you pass such cruel judgement? Are you that miserable in your own lives that you need to attack others?

Unbelievable. Truly. People can be so nasty when they can hide behind their username and their computer screen. Get a life, honestly. I would hate to see you on parenting forums.

I really do want to thank those of you who gave me constructive advice, because that was all I was after and it was very helpful. I just wanted an opinion on this trainer and her techniques and I believe I got that, so ta.

But thanks to you others, I'm very much done with posting here.

Pathetic.

Well said!

[poodlefan]

Harper I think therapy is needed but I think it is you that needs it. I am honestly quite concerned about you and am not trying to be mean. If you aren't seeing a therapist I suggest that you think about it. You don't need to reply with any personal details btw.

OMG. Inappropriate much?! Harper is looking for advice from fellow dog owners after her partner left for the defence force and her puppy reacted in a very normal way. Someone needs a therapist, but it sure as hell isn't Harper...

I don't see how insulting anyone is going to help here. With respect, pull your head in lashton!

Harper, it's pretty obvious that you're not coping well with your partner's absence. It seems that this is being reflected by your dog. If you cannot see that your posts might make people concerned about you, I hope you reread them.

Having served in the military for nearly 20 years and being the daughter of a Vietman veteran, I'm not unfamiliar with the situation you're currently in. My mother went through it with a partner on active war service and four children. She held it together with a husband missing in action by the way.

There are services specifically for the partners of serving military personnel deployed overseas. I suggest you think about accessing them, even if its just to have a chat. If nothing else, you might realise that tens of thousands of Australians have lived through your situation and found ways to cope. I hope you do too.

Edited August 15, 2011 by poodlefan

[Gayle.]

I too, post with my real name and hide nothing. FYI, my son is in the armed forces and has done tours of duty to Iraq and more recently, Afghanistan.

The stress of my son being in a war zone, is not, however transferred to my dogs.

The defence forces have support in place for families of personnel posted overseas, you might like to look them up. Your obsession with your pups very normal behaviour isn't at all healthy. For the pup.

[Guest lavendergirl]

I dunno... I haven't read all of Harper's posts but I think its pretty common to freak out a bit when bringing a new pup into the house especially if you are a first time dog owner even to the point of considering returning the pup/dog. Mostly things settle down in time though so you just have to believe that things will get better. And lots of people set up webcams in the house to check on the behaviour of their dogs when they are out ;)