Fatal Attack

[Alyosha]

Is it remotely normal for a pitbull to weigh over 55kg???

[Sandra777]

Is there such a thing as a 125 pound Pit Bull???

Terrible tragedy for the family.

[poodlefan]

I genuinely hope a researcher talks to the husband about his dog, his wife and what happened.

These things don't generally come out of nowhere. The dynamics of that pack deserve further study.

A second tragedy will occur if no one learns from this one.

[RottnBullies]

Is there such a thing as a 125 pound Pit Bull???

Terrible tragedy for the family.

I agree 56kgs seems way too much for a pure bred APBT.... But It's the States where everything bigger Is better They are meant to be a medium size dog, I have yet to see any pictures of these dogs In question

A second tragedy will occur if no one learns from this one.

What do you mean poodlefan? are you talking about the female who was found cowering In a corner?

[WreckitWhippet]

He ticks two of the boxes, those being young and entire. I wonder if he did life the life of a family pet or on a chain.

[RottnBullies]

I'm pretty sure I did read when the husband left for work, he left them all sleeping In bed, so I doubt It was life on a chain, he was entire though.

[poodlefan]

What do you mean poodlefan? are you talking about the female who was found cowering In a corner?

I'm talking about learning from this incident and educating people about any identifiable indicators that this could potentially happen.

And I'm willing to bet they were there.

RSG's identified two - young dog, reaching maturity and male. There's a whole list of others. I'd want to know about the wife's relationship with this dog in detail.

[RottnBullies]

That's what I thought you may have meant PF, was just checking though

And I agree something was not right, the maturing and entire are probably the best scenario as to why, but I guess It's still speculation at best, It really could have been anything to spark It, but the fact of age and not being desexed a big contribution

[Odin-Genie]

What do you mean poodlefan? are you talking about the female who was found cowering In a corner?

I'm talking about learning from this incident and educating people about any identifiable indicators that this could potentially happen.

And I'm willing to bet they were there.

RSG's identified two - young dog, reaching maturity and male. There's a whole list of others. I'd want to know about the wife's relationship with this dog in detail.

Are male young dogs more of a danger than other dogs? Is that because they are at an age where they are trying to assert themselves? And should owners of male dogs at that age be particularly cautious of their dogs?

Could a well-loved family pet turn on its owner so viciously that it ends up killing the person without any major trauma or provocation?

[Keira&Phoenix]

Firstly I just want to say how sorry I am to the man who lost his entire family in one foul swoop, his wife, soon to be child and a dog and possible a second (hopefully the female is returned, especially as they have proven she didn't even have 1 bite at the woman)

56 kgs sounds more like a Pit Mix (Ie APBT X American Bulldog) or even an AmBully (those huge whale sized dogs with no neck or legs) which they still lump under the pitbull category in the States. Too many dogs are lumped under the name "Pitbull" there are like 5 - 6 breeds in America and even here that are lumped in as "Pitbull types" and then all the bad media falls on one breed APBT. (To prove this point a colleague at work told me it was ok that I owned a Pit Mix because its the purebreds that are bad).

It would be good to know the actually reasons behind the attack but the only witness is a dog so we will never know the full story.

RIP Darla her unborn child and Gunner. May you all be free and happy together while you wait for Dad over the Rainbow Bridge.

ETA - Wanted to point out that I heard about another story where it was thought a Rottweiler had mauled its owner to death but once the full autopsy was completed it was found that the owner had a heart attack and that the dog attacked the owner after he collapsed from the heart attack.

The full coroners report for this incident is not available and it could be possible that the lady suffered from a seizure etc and something similar to above happened.

Nothing will be set in stone until they complete a full autopsy on the woman. The media outlets reporting that it was definitely the dog are jumping the gun a bit, but don't they always.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Keira&Phoenix

[Odin-Genie]

That's what I thought you may have meant PF, was just checking though

And I agree something was not right, the maturing and entire are probably the best scenario as to why, but I guess It's still speculation at best, It really could have been anything to spark It, but the fact of age and not being desexed a big contribution

There have been quite a few discussions regarding pros and cons of desexing dogs. But if being entire and reaching maturity can contribute to aggressiveness then desexing should be strongly recommended to average owners of male pet dogs.

[Keira&Phoenix]

What do you mean poodlefan? are you talking about the female who was found cowering In a corner?

I'm talking about learning from this incident and educating people about any identifiable indicators that this could potentially happen.

And I'm willing to bet they were there.

RSG's identified two - young dog, reaching maturity and male. There's a whole list of others. I'd want to know about the wife's relationship with this dog in detail.

Are male young dogs more of a danger than other dogs? Is that because they are at an age where they are trying to assert themselves? And should owners of male dogs at that age be particularly cautious of their dogs?

Could a well-loved family pet turn on its owner so viciously that it ends up killing the person without any major trauma or provocation?

You can't guarantee there was no major trauma or provocation. There is just to many ifs with dog attacks to make a statement like your above.

[poodlefan]

Are male young dogs more of a danger than other dogs? Is that because they are at an age where they are trying to assert themselves? And should owners of male dogs at that age be particularly cautious of their dogs?

Could a well-loved family pet turn on its owner so viciously that it ends up killing the person without any major trauma or provocation?

Statistically, yes. But that factor needs to be weighed in with a whole bunch of others. I've posted the following before:

I've posted this before but here's the science on what makes dogs dangerous:

Some questions to ponder.

1. Was this a "family" dog or a "resident" dog?

Quote from the USAs National Canine Research Council:

Dogs that have not been afforded the opportunity to socialize, interact and learn appropriate behaviors because they have been acquired for negative functions (guarding, fighting, breeding for financial gain) or maintained in semi-isolated conditions (chained, kenneled, basement/yard dogs) cannot be defined as "family dogs". These animals are "resident" dogs. Family dogs and resident dogs cannot be expected to exhibit similar behaviors under similar conditions.

2. How many factors of this attack fit those identified by Karen Delise in her book Fatal Dog Attacks?

Today's media is filled with sensational headlines of dog attacks. Routinely quoted in these newspaper accounts are dated statistics from the Centers for Disease Control. The last CDC study released documented which breeds of dogs caused the most human fatalities from 1979 through 1998. While the CDC did an admirable job of studying fatal dog attacks, and went to great lengths to point out that irresponsible owners were the cause of most of these incidents, the media and lawmakers continue to use CDC statistics to substantiate claims that certain breeds of dogs are inherently more "vicious" than other breeds.

After reviewing over 431 cases of fatal dog attacks it is apparent there is no single factor that translates in a lethal encounter between a person and a dog(s). A fatal dog attack is always the culmination of past and present events that include: inherited and learned behaviors, genetics, breeding, socialization, function of the dog, physical condition and size of the dog, reproductive status of dog, popularity of breed, individual temperament, environmental stresses, owner responsibility, victim behavior, victim size and physical condition, timing and misfortune.

While many circumstances may contribute to a fatal dog attack, the following three factors appear to play a critical role in the display of canine aggression towards humans;Function of the dog - (Includes: dogs acquired for fighting, guarding/protection or image enhancement)

Owner responsibility - (Includes: dogs allowed to roam loose, chained dogs, dogs and/or children left unsupervised, dogs permitted or encouraged to behave aggressively, animal neglect and/or abuse)

Reproductive status of dog - (Includes: unaltered males dogs, bitches with puppies, children coming between male dog and female dog in estrus)

It is necessary to emphasize that a fatal dog attack is an exceptionally rare event, yet many communities and cities believe that the solution to prevent severe and fatal dog attacks is to label, restrict or ban certain breeds of dogs as potentially dangerous. If the breed of dog was the primary or sole determining factor in a fatal dog attack, it would necessarily stand to reason that since there are literally millions of Rottweilers, Pit Bulls and German Shepherd Dogs in the United States, there would have to be countless more than an approximate 20-25 human fatalities per year. Since only an infinitesimal number of any breed is implicated in a human fatality, it is not only unreasonable to characterize this as a specific breed behavior by which judge an entire population of dogs, it also does little to prevent fatal or severe dog attacks as the real causes and events that contribute to a fatal attack are masked by the issue of breed and not seriously addressed.

From 1965 - 2001, there have been at least 36 different breeds/types of dog that have been involved in a fatal attack in the United States. (This number rises to at least 52 breeds/types when surveying fatal attacks worldwide). We are increasingly becoming a society that has less and less tolerance and understanding of natural canine behaviors. Breed specific behaviors that have been respected and selected for over the centuries are now often viewed as unnatural or dangerous. Dogs have throughout the centuries served as protectors and guardians of our property, possessions and families. Dogs have also been used for thousands of years to track, chase and hunt both large and small animals. These natural and selected-for canine behaviors seem to now eliciting fear, shock and a sense of distrust among many people.

There seems to be an ever growing expectation of a "behaviorally homogenized" dog - "Benji" in the shape of a Rottweiler. Breeds of dogs with greater protection instincts or an elevated prey-drive are often unfairly viewed as "aggressive or dangerous". No breed of dog is inherently vicious, as all breeds of dogs were created and are maintained exclusively to serve and co-exist with humans. [The problem exists not within the breed of dog, but rather within the owners that fail to control, supervise, maintain and properly train the breed of dog they choose to keep.

Any dog, regardless of breed, is only as dangerous as his/her owner allows it to be.

Edited August 16, 2011 by poodlefan

[geo]

Such a sad case. Everytime i read such stories it makes you wonder how you're raising your dog and considering the reports say it was a family pet, you wonder where things went wrong.

And until you can answer all the factors that PF mentions in his post we all be none the wiser and will have to speculate somewhat.

I don't know that they have the breed right, 56kg APBT i think not.

If only they headlined the facts then people may learn from these incidents.

[sandgrubber]

Deeply tragic. Not only has the guy lost his family, it must be crushing to have worked hard against BSL and then have this happen. Not to mention being the focus of media attention. Much as it would be good to have all the gory details, I think the guy's privacy needs to be respected. Sounds like a one-off to me, and, unless the necropsy turns up something wrong with the dog, I don't think there's much to learn from this horrible case.

[paulni]

HMMM no way is it a APBT at 56kg .

[sandgrubber]

HMMM no way is it a APBT at 56kg .

Some reports say 125 lb woman and don't give the dog's weight. Methinks none of the reporters saw the dog and somebody got the facts confused. Then somebody else copied the error and soon it was all over the place.

[Odin-Genie]

Are male young dogs more of a danger than other dogs? Is that because they are at an age where they are trying to assert themselves? And should owners of male dogs at that age be particularly cautious of their dogs?

Could a well-loved family pet turn on its owner so viciously that it ends up killing the person without any major trauma or provocation?

You can't guarantee there was no major trauma or provocation. There is just to many ifs with dog attacks to make a statement like your above.

That was a question, not a statement!!

[RottnBullies]

LINK

Greg Napora, whose pregnant wife was mauled and killed by one of their pet pit bulls Thursday, was reunited with the other family pit bull late Monday afternoon.

Officials said yesterday the six-year-old female pit, Tazi, was not involved in the fatal mauling of 32-year-old Darla Napora by an unneutered two-year-old male named Gunner.

The victim died of blood loss and shock from dog bites, preliminary autopsy results show.

Scott Delucchi, spokesman for the Peninsula Humane Society and SPCA, said that his organization wanted to be reasonably sure that Tazi wasn't dangerous before returning her to her owner.

"We needed to know that the second dog was not involved in the attack before we decided to return it to its owner," Delucchi said. "We also wanted to hear that the owner wanted the dog back."

The Humane Society learned early on, soon after his wife's death, that Greg Napora wanted Tazi back.

After medical examiners and odontologists - bite experts - used teeth impressions taken from both dogs to show in preliminary autopsy results that only the male pit bull was involved in the attack, and after Tazi had been observed for signs of aggression, the Humane Society had to give the dog back to her owner, Delucchi said.

"We had to rely on these outside experts," he said, "and the husband who came home, he saw his one dog over his wife, said the other dog (Tazi) was not even in the same room but was cowering in the corner in a different room. Whether she wasn't in there from the beginning of the attack, that's inconclusive."

That information, along with the Humane Society's own observations and investigation, which included checking for signs that the dogs had been abused, that they had been taken on regular vet trips, that they were registered in San Mateo County, and checking with neighbors for any indication that the dogs were neglected, led to Tazi's release.

Delucchi said that some of Napora's neighbors in Pacifica's Vallemar District called the Humane Society after the dog's release to say they were uncomfortable with the dog's release, and were concerned the dog wasn't safe.

"But I also think of someone who loses his wife, unborn child and other dog in one day," Delucchi said. "So maybe that second dog is all he's got. So, we're trying to think out it that way. I'm asking people to be compassionate."

Nevertheless, he understands neighbors' concerns, Delucchi said.

"You can never predict future behavior (of dogs)," he said. "We cannot say for sure we know what a dog will do. We can only judge the grounds for holding a dog; we had no legal authority."

Thursday's incident has reignited the debate over whether pit bulls ought to be banned and whether the breed is inherently dangerous, a debate seen now on Pacifica Patch's comment boards and elsewhere. When asked to weigh in, Delucchi said his organization sees the problem primarily lying with the owner.

"We see so many wonderful pit bulls," he said. "People here at work have them, we adopt them out, we see them become search and rescue dogs, pet assistance therapy animals that enter schools and libraries, so many wonderful ones. We also see them end up with the wrong people and do bad things. If it wasn't pit bulls, people would do something awful to another breed, it's a people problem."

Still, an ill-treated pit bull is very dangerous indeed, he said.

"Nobody can deny that pit bulls are physiologically built differently," he said. "The jaws are aligned differently, they do more damage, but we also know that all dogs bite."

One thing pit bull owners can do to make sure their dog is safer is to get it neutered," Delucchi said.

"Neutering makes it safer, it does, it's one of those things that nobody can really deny," he said. "A dog that is not neutered produces testosterone."

More testosterone, he said, usually equals more aggression.

Also, Delucchi advises pet owners to observe their animals for changes in behavior. If the changes seem negative or even odd, correct them immediately, or see a vet.

If your dog used to greet visitors at the door, for instance, but now puts his tail between his legs and hides from visitors, it could be a bad sign. Problems like these don't just work themselves out, Delucchi said.

@ bit In bold!....I'm left wondering how their jaws are aligned any different to other dogs!

[Zhou Xuanyao]

What a lot of people do is they make concessions at the wrong places in clumsy attempts at diplomacy. I think that either this is true of Delucchi as well, or he really believes what he has said. Either way, his capacity as a spokesperson for the breed leaves something to be desired.