How Many Litters A Year Do You Think

[Dju]

I cant answer the poll. It is such an individual circumstance thing. I look forward to the poll result to see what the general opinion of those who respond is.

Can't say it's going to give us much when smartasses put 15+ litters against breeders who don't health test...

Well at least we know that since there are 7 votes in each of the 15+ category, they are most likely all trolling so we can ignore that option altogether :p

I think large-scale breeding is rarely justified. We already have so many puppies and dogs in the pounds that lose their chance of getting adopted every time someone decides to bring a litter into the world, breeders can't be doing that much good to the breed that they feel the need (for speed!) to breed every few months.

That's just my opinion; I also think it's sad when breeders have 10+ (or some other high number) of dogs on their property--I mean even if they are getting fed well and looked after etc, how on earth can you provide so many dogs with..like.. love. I sound like a tree-hugging hippie, but whatever! I think dogs have a right to be in a place where they get an adequate amount of attention and affection bestowed on them, and it seems almost impossible to do that when you have a dozen or so dogs on the property. I could never do that, I'd need to hire staff to cuddle and pat so many dogs a day. :p

[BJean]

I cant answer the poll. It is such an individual circumstance thing. I look forward to the poll result to see what the general opinion of those who respond is.

Can't say it's going to give us much when smartasses put 15+ litters against breeders who don't health test...

Well at least we know that since there are 7 votes in each of the 15+ category, they are most likely all trolling so we can ignore that option altogether :p

I think large-scale breeding is rarely justified. We already have so many puppies and dogs in the pounds that lose their chance of getting adopted every time someone decides to bring a litter into the world, breeders can't be doing that much good to the breed that they feel the need (for speed!) to breed every few months.

That's just my opinion; I also think it's sad when breeders have 10+ (or some other high number) of dogs on their property--I mean even if they are getting fed well and looked after etc, how on earth can you provide so many dogs with..like.. love. I sound like a tree-hugging hippie, but whatever! I think dogs have a right to be in a place where they get an adequate amount of attention and affection bestowed on them, and it seems almost impossible to do that when you have a dozen or so dogs on the property. I could never do that, I'd need to hire staff to cuddle and pat so many dogs a day. :p

Can't say it's going to give you much when smartarse bigots who can't see beyond their own small perspective and experience ...

Edited August 11, 2011 by lilli

[Bjelkier]

I cant answer the poll. It is such an individual circumstance thing. I look forward to the poll result to see what the general opinion of those who respond is.

Can't say it's going to give us much when smartasses put 15+ litters against breeders who don't health test...

Well at least we know that since there are 7 votes in each of the 15+ category, they are most likely all trolling so we can ignore that option altogether :p

I think large-scale breeding is rarely justified. We already have so many puppies and dogs in the pounds that lose their chance of getting adopted every time someone decides to bring a litter into the world, breeders can't be doing that much good to the breed that they feel the need (for speed!) to breed every few months.

That's just my opinion; I also think it's sad when breeders have 10+ (or some other high number) of dogs on their property--I mean even if they are getting fed well and looked after etc, how on earth can you provide so many dogs with..like.. love. I sound like a tree-hugging hippie, but whatever! I think dogs have a right to be in a place where they get an adequate amount of attention and affection bestowed on them, and it seems almost impossible to do that when you have a dozen or so dogs on the property. I could never do that, I'd need to hire staff to cuddle and pat so many dogs a day. :p

I don't think that's a very fair comment.

Breeders do not stop someone getting a pound puppy just because they have pedigree litters.

People go to breeders because they want a particular breed and there is no garuntee that the pound will have that breed nor can they be sure the dog wont have baggage or have any genetic health problems.

Pounds are full because jack asses don't think before they act.

Anyway I don't think the original question can be summed up easily, there are so many variables.

15+ does seem excessive and I simply fail to believe that there are that many puppy buyers out there (I could offcause be wrong). I simply don't know how many litters I could place on one person, it's such an individual thing.

EDT to add more

Edited August 11, 2011 by Bjelkier

[Dju]

I cant answer the poll. It is such an individual circumstance thing. I look forward to the poll result to see what the general opinion of those who respond is.

Can't say it's going to give us much when smartasses put 15+ litters against breeders who don't health test...

Well at least we know that since there are 7 votes in each of the 15+ category, they are most likely all trolling so we can ignore that option altogether :p

I think large-scale breeding is rarely justified. We already have so many puppies and dogs in the pounds that lose their chance of getting adopted every time someone decides to bring a litter into the world, breeders can't be doing that much good to the breed that they feel the need (for speed!) to breed every few months.

That's just my opinion; I also think it's sad when breeders have 10+ (or some other high number) of dogs on their property--I mean even if they are getting fed well and looked after etc, how on earth can you provide so many dogs with..like.. love. I sound like a tree-hugging hippie, but whatever! I think dogs have a right to be in a place where they get an adequate amount of attention and affection bestowed on them, and it seems almost impossible to do that when you have a dozen or so dogs on the property. I could never do that, I'd need to hire staff to cuddle and pat so many dogs a day. :p

I don't think that's a very fair comment.

Breeders do not stop someone getting a pound puppy just because they have pedigree litters.

People go to breeders because they want a particular breed and there is no garuntee that the pound will have that breed nor can they be sure the dog wont have baggage or have any genetic health problems.

Pounds are full because jack asses don't think before they act.

Anyway I don't think the original question can be summed up easily, there are so many variables.

15+ does seem somewhat excessive and I simply fail to believe that there are that many puppy buyers out there (I could offcause be wrong). I would say 6 at max would be my limit.

Ah, fair enough, I get your point. Though I do reckon it's possible that if there were less litters around in general, people may be more inclined to get pound dogs. Like for example, if there weren't any SV litters around the time when I was looking for a puppy, I would have most likely gotten a pound dog (I had waited 19 years, I wasn't willing to wait much more! D: ).

[Bjelkier]

Personally if I was unable to get the breed I wanted quickly I would either wait a very long time or I just wouldn't get a dog.

I don't like cross breeds (sorry if that offends anyone, just my opinion) and I wouldn't want to own one.

But then thats just me, maybe I'm weird, I don't know.

EDT because I keep forgetting words.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Bjelkier

[Steve]

I cant answer the poll. It is such an individual circumstance thing. I look forward to the poll result to see what the general opinion of those who respond is.

Can't say it's going to give us much when smartasses put 15+ litters against breeders who don't health test...

Well at least we know that since there are 7 votes in each of the 15+ category, they are most likely all trolling so we can ignore that option altogether :p

I think large-scale breeding is rarely justified. We already have so many puppies and dogs in the pounds that lose their chance of getting adopted every time someone decides to bring a litter into the world, breeders can't be doing that much good to the breed that they feel the need (for speed!) to breed every few months.

That's just my opinion; I also think it's sad when breeders have 10+ (or some other high number) of dogs on their property--I mean even if they are getting fed well and looked after etc, how on earth can you provide so many dogs with..like.. love. I sound like a tree-hugging hippie, but whatever! I think dogs have a right to be in a place where they get an adequate amount of attention and affection bestowed on them, and it seems almost impossible to do that when you have a dozen or so dogs on the property. I could never do that, I'd need to hire staff to cuddle and pat so many dogs a day. :p

I don't think that's a very fair comment.

Breeders do not stop someone getting a pound puppy just because they have pedigree litters.

People go to breeders because they want a particular breed and there is no garuntee that the pound will have that breed nor can they be sure the dog wont have baggage or have any genetic health problems.

Pounds are full because jack asses don't think before they act.

Anyway I don't think the original question can be summed up easily, there are so many variables.

15+ does seem excessive and I simply fail to believe that there are that many puppy buyers out there (I could offcause be wrong). I simply don't know how many litters I could place on one person, it's such an individual thing.

EDT to add more

Purebred registered breeders Australia wide only breed around 8 and a half thousand litters per year and there are around 34 and a half thousand litters bred .Thats a couple of hundred thousand more puppies than we breed each year which find himes . There is a fair argument that if there were more puppies being placed by breeders who care about where they go and who are prepared to help the owners find new homes if something goes wrong that The other couple of hundred thousand wouldnt be in such high demand. It is very rare that purebred puppy's supply is bigger than the demand.

Everything is relative. Should we limit litters when one breed has three per litter and the other has a dozen? If a chi breeder has 15 litters a year that equals about 45 puppies. If a Dane breeder has 15 litters per year that could be 150 per year - hard to say across the board.

[Crisovar]

Impossible to set a number as far as I am concerned. Far too many variables, so much of how and why a Breeder operates is unable to be set in stone. Too much variation between breeds and their requirements and quirks.

I want to know where people think good pups are going to come from when all the warm and fuzzy folk get their way and there are so few pups on the ground.

Everyone wants puppy buyers to source their pup from ethical, responsible feel good breeders, then they want those pups to be cream of the crop, of course on top of that the Breeder must show/dance or play the flute whatever, plus only breed one or two of these warm and fuzzy litters in a set period.

How do we breed to keep up within the restrictions that are being demanded and yet maintain healthy gene pools and the numbers of animals that is often needed to have a healthy sound breeding program. We also want Breeders who are experienced and know their breed inside out and have the knowledge to produce these super pups. After we have produced these super pups we then have to desex the majority of them and take another heap of choices out of breeding programs and put the damper on anyone who may even think about breeding themselves.

Then we have the find a mentor if you want to breed issue, shortly there wont be any of those either.

Limit who can breed, limit how many they breed, limit how many they own where does that lead us?? Be careful what you wish for.

[sandgrubber]

I answered N/A to all questions. Health testing and showing are not the only criteria for quality dogs . . . what about working dogs? What about temperament? It matters a lot to me what the facilities are like, and how many people are around to look after the pups. Some show people do some awful things to win shows . .. despite lots of health testing.

I don't much trust the regulators . . . and think we have to be careful about what we ask for.

[espinay2]

It is too much of an individual thing to answer within the answers you gave. Frankly I don't feel that any general number should be set. What is relevant for one breeder is not relevant to another. I would suggest reading the 'larger breeder' thread. More litters does not equal a bad breeder and for some breeders one litter is one too many.

Limit who can breed, limit how many they breed, limit how many they own where does that lead us?? Be careful what you wish for.

Agree 100% If we are not careful animal rights will have their way and dog ownership will be legislated out of existence. Breeders will no longer able to keep the dogs to breed with, they wont be able to breed the litters they need to keep the breed viable or have the genepool available to breed within the genetic guidelines being enforced and there will be less and less responsibly bred purebred dogs available for pet owners. Forget two or three year waiting lists for puppies and think ten or more if you are very lucky.

Edited August 11, 2011 by espinay2

[D & D]

But, I answered one to two for the first two questions and none for the third

So for question 1, just because they show, they should automatically be able to breed a litter? I selected N/A for that question, because it mentioned showing only and not health testing like question 2 did. Had it said showing AND health testing (for relevant breeds), my answer would have been different.

Don't rcall that being an option when I answered.

If you quoted the rest of my post, you would see that I said there are some breeders who health test and show and shouldn't have any litters.

I know of a breeder who health tests and shows. Her line has a GDV problem. She is getting ready to breed from a bitch who had GDV (requiring surgery) at about 12 months of age. The dam of this bitch has D grade hips and could not naturally whelp (2 litters, 2 ceasers (sp??)).

She's ready to put this poor girl through the stress of whelping and raising a litter. IMO this is beyond plain wrong, it shouldn't be allowed.

[aussielover]

I can't really answer as the poll is asking how many litters breeders should be allowed to have not how many litter I personally think they should have ;)

I think it is up to the breeder and what they think they can handle.

Also it really depends on what you're looking for in a dog- working/performance/show/pet.

If I was after a working or performance or dog I would go to a breeder with dogs proven to be successful in that discipline.

The same would apply if I was after a pet- therefore I would most likely want a puppy raised in a loving home always possible that litters raised in kennel environments can make greta family pets; so I keep an open mind, I just think it would possibly be better to get a pup from dogs whose parents already excel at your chosen activity whether that be a pet or show dog or working dog.

Edited August 11, 2011 by aussielover

[Niques]

]Ah, fair enough, I get your point. Though I do reckon it's possible that if there were less litters around in general, people may be more inclined to get pound dogs. Like for example, if there weren't any SV litters around the time when I was looking for a puppy, I would have most likely gotten a pound dog (I had waited 19 years, I wasn't willing to wait much more! D: ).

I simply would have started looking at different breeds or wouldn't have gotten a dog at all if there were no suitable labrador breeders when I got James. I'm a first time dog owner so I specifically went with a breeder so I could be confident that I could predict certain aspects of my dog, both physically and in terms of temperament instead of picking a wildcard.

Personally, I can only see myself buying from a small scale breeder as I want a puppy that's been raised in a home environment because it mirrors my current circumstance. But I see the benefit of larger kennels in the pursuit of quality dogs, assuming all health testing is done and there is some qualitative, preferably purpose-related, criteria behind their breeding.

[WreckitWhippet]

As many as they like, providing they don't cut corners and sacrafice qaulity.

I'd rather see the great breeders producing many puppies.

[oakway]

I believe it has nothing to do with how many a year. To me it is the quality of care you can provide.

If you can provide adequately for one litter a year so be it, but if you can provide for 25 litters of pure bred registered dogs, that are capable of holding their own in the show ring, and the rest are found caring homes so be it.

(Sorry I live in a world of pure bred registered dogs).

[atua]

hard poll really. Because depending on the number of bitches they have would certainly influence the amount of litters per year. But one litter per year per bitch seems reasonable to me.

I only have one bitch

Very interesting poll however

[Ons]

My friend who breeds golden retreivers has had a few litters this year

last year I'm not even sure that she had a litter as she went on the show circuit

her reason for more litters this year is so that she can have new dogs to show next year

every litter is presold and has waiting lists

she gets health certificates for all her dogs

and most if not all the dogs that are bred from are Champions

so I don't think all breeders should be judged with the same brush

eta and to clarify that it's only one litter per bitch

Edited August 11, 2011 by Ons

[stonecutter]

That's just my opinion; I also think it's sad when breeders have 10+ (or some other high number) of dogs on their property--I mean even if they are getting fed well and looked after etc, how on earth can you provide so many dogs with..like.. love. I sound like a tree-hugging hippie, but whatever! I think dogs have a right to be in a place where they get an adequate amount of attention and affection bestowed on them, and it seems almost impossible to do that when you have a dozen or so dogs on the property. I could never do that, I'd need to hire staff to cuddle and pat so many dogs a day. :p

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong, is this anthropomorphic behaviour? (ie stating that dogs need "love") I love my dog, but I cannot guarantee that my dog feels love for me. I know she feels bonded to me (as the one who provides food, shelter and play time) - but is that the same thing? I know there's been threads on anthropomorphising dogs before - perhaps that is what drives the "small number of litters" idea? We're considering dogs to be like humans?

[Rebanne]

I think large-scale breeding is rarely justified. We already have so many puppies and dogs in the pounds that lose their chance of getting adopted every time someone decides to bring a litter into the world, breeders can't be doing that much good to the breed that they feel the need (for speed!) to breed every few months.

what a load of codswallop.

[The Spotted Devil]

Not all breeders have all their breeding bitches on their property either - some have bitches out in co-ownership - in pet or working homes. Bitches come back to be mated/rear puppies and then go back to their usual homes. 2 or 3 litters and dog is desexed. I think that's a great system if you have a good relationship with your (often repeat) puppy buyers. I wouldn't have a problem if Em's breeder wanted a litter even though I own her outright - although unlikely as she kept her sister, I will still double check before having her spayed.

As for the original question, 1 is too many for some. I judge each situation on its individual merits.

[Jumabaar]

As many as they like, providing they don't cut corners and sacrafice qaulity.

I'd rather see the great breeders producing many puppies.

This!!