Oscars Law

[Nic.B]

I hope one day Registered Breeders and their orgs, Rescue and Animal Welfare groups can all work together to stamp out the unreputable sources who contribute to such a disgraceful, profit driven industry where we see loving family pets pts through no fault of their own.

Ah for a perfect world. It's never going to happen with things like Oscar's law, which - like I said so many pages ago and only one person acknowledged (thanks Jaybeece) it's the sneaky stuff that gets pushed in with these laws that is actively divisive of the entire dog community. For example - banning the online advertising / sale of dogs. This will have reputable registered breeders backs up immediately, as they are being lumped in with disreputable puppy farmers simply by choice of media.

Divide and conquer. This is what the anti-companion animals nutters will do to the dog loving community, by fostering widespread feelings of guilt, shame and pity in all dog owners, whether breeders or not.

Rubbish.

I will not ever understand why registered breeders are not doing more to promote/educate re Pure Breeds?

I just googled “I want to buy a puppy” all I came up with was puppy farms, pet shops and back yard breeders.

Even a PP trainer and behaviourist LOL.

IMO you guys should be up there first hit on google offering education and advice re Pure Breeds (or even warning re crosses of breeds) and what owning a puppy entails.

Instead you all sit back in an insular world complaining about your rights being disrupted due to so many dogs being euthenased and doing nothing.

Seriously you guys are doing nothing to help yourselves or your breeds at all.

You have no idea what breeders are doing for their breeds. And if you have an easy way to get to the top of the list in a google search feel free to enlighten me please!!

Pay for it.

[Shazzapug]

I hope one day Registered Breeders and their orgs, Rescue and Animal Welfare groups can all work together to stamp out the unreputable sources who contribute to such a disgraceful, profit driven industry where we see loving family pets pts through no fault of their own.

Ah for a perfect world. It's never going to happen with things like Oscar's law, which - like I said so many pages ago and only one person acknowledged (thanks Jaybeece) it's the sneaky stuff that gets pushed in with these laws that is actively divisive of the entire dog community. For example - banning the online advertising / sale of dogs. This will have reputable registered breeders backs up immediately, as they are being lumped in with disreputable puppy farmers simply by choice of media.

Divide and conquer. This is what the anti-companion animals nutters will do to the dog loving community, by fostering widespread feelings of guilt, shame and pity in all dog owners, whether breeders or not.

Rubbish.

I will not ever understand why registered breeders are not doing more to promote/educate re Pure Breeds?

I just googled “I want to buy a puppy” all I came up with was puppy farms, pet shops and back yard breeders.

Even a PP trainer and behaviourist LOL.

IMO you guys should be up there first hit on google offering education and advice re Pure Breeds (or even warning re crosses of breeds) and what owning a puppy entails.

Instead you all sit back in an insular world complaining about your rights being disrupted due to so many dogs being euthenased and doing nothing.

Seriously you guys are doing nothing to help yourselves or your breeds at all.

You have no idea what breeders are doing for their breeds. And if you have an easy way to get to the top of the list in a google search feel free to enlighten me please!!

Pay for it.

Yes indeed....everything comes down to money.

[Alyosha]

I am in the process of homing an entire litter, and have had no complaints from puppy buyers that have contacted me, from all over the country and overseas. Sorry to sound like a snob, but I'm not seeking generalised "puppy buyers" but buyers seeking my particular breed.

And lo and behold, if you type in "a particular breed puppy for sale" you get - first hit - Dogzonline breeder puppy advertisments, some linked to breeders own websites and all full of breeder contact details. You also get links to breed clubs contacts and websites with all sorts of info.

There are a good deal of people out there are not flush with time or energy to go chasing down the general (and generally opinionated and unwilling) public and ramming our own ideals down their throats. There is a bigger abundance than ever of available information in this world. People who want to find stuff out can do so easier than ever.

I have never said anything about my rights being disrupted, or anything about dogs being euthanased, but I have spoken out about people working blindly and obssessively to bring in laws and regulations that will create unenforceable conditions - that only law abiding folk will ever adhere to. How will that help pound dogs? Or any dogs?

I'm yet to see any discussion on that at all yet - just the usual roundabout of who helps with rescue the most and how others just don't give a hoot about all the terrible stuff. The guilt trips again, but nothing functional or useful.

Yet again this degenerates into attacks on breeders for not saving the entire dog world.

efs

Edited August 15, 2011 by Alyosha

[poodlefan]

NicB:

I will not ever understand why registered breeders are not doing more to promote/educate re Pure Breeds?

My guess is that it may have something to do with the fact that none of them make sufficient money from their hobby to pursue such activities full time? And frankly, why should they do more than place the dogs they breed in responsible, caring homes?

Unlike PIAA, there aren't funds for a professional lobby group either.

The answer to all of the issues relating to puppy farms and poorly bred dogs lies in the hand of the BUYER.

Education is the answer and there is one organisation with the funding AND the mandate to do it.. the RSPCA. Perhaps if they focus on those issues we might get a paradigm shift in attitude from "its just a dog" to "this is a 15 year investment for my family and I'd better buy carefully and put some time into training".

I can dream.

Edited August 15, 2011 by poodlefan

[Shazzapug]

Now that you got me started Nic...do you know what rescues do now to contribute to this Puppy farming problem? They go and buy pregnant bitches that are to due whelp any second for thousands and thousands of dollars from the pf's....what does that encourage? They are doing the opposite to what should be done.

[Nic.B]

It's the not the pedigree registered dogs that are being euth's in large numbers...

Further promoting pedigree dogs from ethical breeders, isn't going to reduce the number of dogs being PTS. We cannot produce enough quality dogs as it is, promoting them will just make our waiting lists longer. We can talk to people wanting pups til we are blue in the face, we can speak or the attrocities of puppy farms and what they registered breeder can offer, in terms of support and a quality puppy. It's going to have no impact, if we cannot supply the potential buyers with a puppy.

I have a website, show my dogs, race my dogs, talk to people in the street and the dogs are a wlaking advertisement for well bred pedigree animals. There's not much more to be done.

I agree with you in that it is not pedigree registered dogs being euthed in large numbers.

I do believe that promoting pure breeds, educating people on the difference between a great PB as opposed to a DD online is crucial.

People honestly have no idea, there are people in my area who have never thought of PB's and dont even know there is a pound here believe it or not.

Puppy farmers have an open market online. If I was a RB or an Org heading up Breederes I would be closing that open market quick smart and at the very least doing my best to educate.

[Nic.B]

I am in the process of homing an entire litter, and have had no complaints from puppy buyers that have contacted me, from all over the country and overseas. Sorry to sound like a snob, but I'm not seeking generalised "puppy buyers" but buyers seeking my particular breed.

And lo and behold, if you type in "a particular breed puppy for sale" you get - first hit - Dogzonline breeder puppy advertisments, some linked to breeders own websites and all full of breeder contact details. You also get links to breed clubs contacts and websites with all sorts of info.

There are a good deal of people out there are not flush with time or energy to go chasing down the general (and generally opinionated and unwilling) public and ramming our own ideals down their throats. There is a bigger abundance than ever of available information in this world. People who want to find stuff out can do so easier than ever.

I have never said anything about my rights being disrupted, or anything about dogs being euthanased, but I have spoken out about people working blindly and obssessively to bring in laws and regulations that will create unenforceable conditions - that only law abiding folk will ever adhere to. How will that help pound dogs? Or any dogs?

I'm yet to see any discussion on that at all yet - just the usual roundabout of who helps with rescue the most and how others just don't give a hoot about all the terrible stuff. The guilt trips again, but nothing functional or useful.

Yet again this degenerates into attacks on breeders for not saving the entire dog world.

efs

I dont think you sound like a snob at all and I know your puppies are in the best hands possible.

Many of the general public do not even know how to spell or pronounce the names of breeds, let alone know info on them.

"I want to buy a puppy" is very sad though relevant.

There is no need to ram things down peoples throats, though I honestly believe the info should be easily accessable. And yes at times you need to suffer fools if you are passionate.

I have not ever attacked breeders, please show me where I have done so.

[poodlefan]

Many of the general public do not even know how to spell or pronounce the names of breeds, let alone know info on them.

And yet they seem to manage just fine aquiring knowledge when buying cars...

The only difference in the two processes is how much they value the "item" they're purchasing.

[Nic.B]

NicB:

I will not ever understand why registered breeders are not doing more to promote/educate re Pure Breeds?

My guess is that it may have something to do with the fact that none of them make sufficient money from their hobby to pursue such activities full time? And frankly, why should they do more than place the dogs they breed in responsible, caring homes?

Unlike PIAA, there aren't funds for a professional lobby group either.

The answer to all of the issues relating to puppy farms and poorly bred dogs lies in the hand of the BUYER.

Education is the answer and there is one organisation with the funding AND the mandate to do it.. the RSPCA. Perhaps if they focus on those issues we might get a paradigm shift in attitude from "its just a dog" to "this is a 15 year investment for my family and I'd better buy carefully and put some time into training".

I can dream.

So true Poodlefan esspecially compared to the PIAA. Money talks.

I dont think we will see anything from the RSPCA nationally sadly.

[Nic.B]

Many of the general public do not even know how to spell or pronounce the names of breeds, let alone know info on them.

And yet they seem to manage just fine aquiring knowledge when buying cars...

The only difference in the two processes is how much they value the "item" they're purchasing.

True.

[WreckitWhippet]

The info on purebred/pedigree dogs is easily accessible.

Google purebred or pedigree dogs and it's all there.

ETA: if they can't spell either of the above then a simple "dog breeders" will suffice .

Edited August 15, 2011 by ReadySetGo

[Nic.B]

Now that you got me started Nic...do you know what rescues do now to contribute to this Puppy farming problem? They go and buy pregnant bitches that are to due whelp any second for thousands and thousands of dollars from the pf's....what does that encourage? They are doing the opposite to what should be done.

Sorry to get you started

I am not sure why you are saying?

Are you suggesting that if rescue assist a female impounded who is due to whelp any second that that is wrong?

What has that got to do with puppy farming?

I can tell you now females that close in whelp at the shelter I volunteer at are not available for sale, they are rescue only. It is a stringent process and the scope of an appropriate rescue is small. Yes, they (and their babies in their belly) have been pts if noone is able to help them.

What is the opposite of 'what should be done?'

I will not ever support an unreputable rescue.

[Shazzapug]

Now that you got me started Nic...do you know what rescues do now to contribute to this Puppy farming problem? They go and buy pregnant bitches that are to due whelp any second for thousands and thousands of dollars from the pf's....what does that encourage? They are doing the opposite to what should be done.

Sorry to get you started

I am not sure why you are saying?

Are you suggesting that if rescue assist a female impounded who is due to whelp any second that that is wrong?

What has that got to do with puppy farming?

I can tell you now females that close in whelp at the shelter I volunteer at are not available for sale, they are rescue only. It is a stringent process and the scope of an appropriate rescue is small. Yes, they (and their babies in their belly) have been pts if noone is able to help them.

What is the opposite of 'what should be done?'

I will not ever support an unreputable rescue.

No these bitches are straight from the puppy farms.

[Alyosha]

Good breeders would never supportthose that aren't reputable - don't you see it is exactly the same? Yet people are happy to campaign for things like Oscar's Law that lumps all breeders in with the bad, and penalises the good rather than teh bad.

If the same thing was done on a National scale to rescue groups - if they were all tarred with the brush of the worst and new laws brought in treating them that way would it actually benefit the dogs? No.

What I've been trying to say is that these campaigns - like Oscar's Law - will only affect those people hat care enough to comply. Ie - the already responsible.

Use the comparison, how many unregistered /unchipped dogs and cats are impounded every day? Yet it's the law. Oh but all the responsible people ensure their dogs are all done. The irresponsible? They don't, and won't. The care factor is not there.

You cann't regulate people into caring, or valuing animals more than they do. Educate maybe, but that's another story. Rules don't educate people.

efs - again!

Edited August 15, 2011 by Alyosha

[Nic.B]

The info on purebred/pedigree dogs is easily accessible.

Google purebred or pedigree dogs and it's all there.

ETA: if they can't spell either of the above then a simple "dog breeders" will suffice .

That doesnt count though when you google "I want a puppy"

I am well aware they are more than likely not an appropriate home. Forget about the home. You dont need to offer details either.

You can however offer education and another perspective. At the moment the farmers have an open market. No one sees anything other than them.

[Nic.B]

Now that you got me started Nic...do you know what rescues do now to contribute to this Puppy farming problem? They go and buy pregnant bitches that are to due whelp any second for thousands and thousands of dollars from the pf's....what does that encourage? They are doing the opposite to what should be done.

Sorry to get you started

I am not sure why you are saying?

Are you suggesting that if rescue assist a female impounded who is due to whelp any second that that is wrong?

What has that got to do with puppy farming?

I can tell you now females that close in whelp at the shelter I volunteer at are not available for sale, they are rescue only. It is a stringent process and the scope of an appropriate rescue is small. Yes, they (and their babies in their belly) have been pts if noone is able to help them.

What is the opposite of 'what should be done?'

I will not ever support an unreputable rescue.

No these bitches are straight from the puppy farms.

Ok, are you saying that they have been rescued from puppy farms "ready to drop" and rescue have taken them on and allowed them to have the litter, raised them, desexed pups and Mum and then found homes?

Or is there more to it? PM if you prefer.

[poodlefan]

You can however offer education and another perspective. At the moment the farmers have an open market. No one sees anything other than them.

Not quite. Some folk find the reputable breeders.. quite a few in fact.

[Nic.B]

Good breeders would never supportthose that aren't reputable - don't you see it is exactly the same? Yet people are happy to campaign for things like Oscar's Law that lumps all breeders in with the bad, and penalises the good rather than teh bad.

If the same thing was done on a National scale to rescue groups - if they were all tarred with the brush of the worst and new laws brought in treating them that way would it actually benefit the dogs? No.

What I've been trying to say is that these campaigns - like Oscar's Law - will only affect those people hat care enough to comply. Ie - the already responsible.

Use the comparison, how many unregistered /unchipped dogs and cats are impounded every day? Yet it's the law. Oh but all the responsible people ensure their dogs are all done. The irresponsible? They don't, and won't. The care factor is not there.

You cann't regulate people into caring, or valuing animals more than they do. Educate maybe, but that's another story. Rules don't educate people.

efs - again!

I am not sure what your point is no disrespect intended.

I need to vacume the dog hair away anyway so will try to reflect LOL.

[Nic.B]

You can however offer education and another perspective. At the moment the farmers have an open market. No one sees anything other than them.

Not quite. Some folk find the reputable breeders.. quite a few in fact.

I am not at all discounting beautiful pure breeds, I have them here with me now at my feet along with rescues.

I just think that if there was much more info re pure breeds, even if people google junk it would be fantastic.

[poodlefan]

You can however offer education and another perspective. At the moment the farmers have an open market. No one sees anything other than them.

Not quite. Some folk find the reputable breeders.. quite a few in fact.

I am not at all discounting beautiful pure breeds, I have them here with me now at my feet along with rescues.

I just think that if there was much more info re pure breeds, even if people google junk it would be fantastic.

There is plenty of information on purebred dogs on the Web. Most breeders and breed clubs have websites. There are whole websites devoted to matching people with purebred dogs suitable for them.

But you're not talking about people who research breeds here. Impulse buying and buying a dog that fails to live up to your expectations is what sees dogs dumped. Buy from soneone who doesn't give a damn about the kind of home the pup is going to and the chances of dumpage grow exponentially.