Kelly_Louise Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Okay, so we know I'm a worry wart when it comes to my puppies. I can't help it - but lately I've noticed a few odd things with Sasha, and I'd just like some advice on what DOLer's would do if it were their dog. I'm very worried that she may be in pain, and I have no idea what's causing it or how to help her Bit of background first - Sasha is my beloved rescue dog who's been with us coming on three years now (best 3 years of my life ). She appears to have a bit of a sensitive tummy, and it took us quite a few months to get her diet right and stop the runny poos, upset tummy's and get her appetite back. Her health for the last couple of years has been really good, only the occasional upset tummy or runny poo and her immune system seems to have picked up a great deal. She's been happy and otherwise healthy and strong. I generally feed her 3 times a day... because I find that (esp during winter) she will vomit in the afternoons (just bile) if her tummy is empty (seems to get aggravated if empty for too long) and can sometimes cause her to go off her food - so feeding twice or three times a day has countered this. She has always been a bit sooky though - and timid. She sometimes gets scared if you try to move her or something and sometimes let's out a little cry if you shock her or she thinks you may be trying to hurt her. These times are VERY few and far between though... and since our bond and trust has developed it really hasn't happened. She is not good with the vet and doesn't like strangers to touch her... although we have found a vet that she can tolerate to a certain extent - which is why I haven't taken her to the vet as yet. I was hoping to get some kind of idea as to what is causing it so she is not put through testing that isn't necessary. However, this last week - I've noticed she's been quite sooky. She cried once when I went to get a bit of sleep out of her eye. Not a yelp, just a very tiny little quick whine. So tiny you can hardly hear it. I do this often though and just thought I'd been a bit rough and maybe scratched the corner of her eye. No big deal. Then, my dad came over during the week and she was dancing around and he was patting her (but I wasn't watching them - she was standing up though) and she gave another little cry. I just thought maybe he'd accidentally trod on her foot or something cause she was goofing about. Then on Friday, we were walking at the lake and we saw her best friend Max the labrador. He ran up to her very vocally (as he always does) and she again let out the tiniest cry. It was hard to tell if it was due to any physical contact. And then as they were parting, he was barking at her and she was pretending to ignore it as he jumped around her in circles (again not sure if there was any physical contact) and she let out another little cry. I checked all her paws and legs - but nothing. So yesterday, I had her inside with me and got her to lie down while the storm hit. I kind of gently pulled her front legs down so that she would lie down and she let out a tiny whine. She didn't jump up or anything, it was just a little whine and things went on as usual. I noticed when I asked her to lie down of her own accord, she also let out a little whine. This morning, as we did our training, I told her 'down' and as she went down she let out another tiny whine, but continued to do her training as asked. The only other thing I have noticed the last 2 days is that on our walks she has been eating a bit of grass. Not alot, and not desperately looking for it as she does sometimes if she has an upset belly... but will seek it out and have a graze. She also looks to be a little 'hunched' up in the back when she has gotten up from lying down for a while, and looks a little hesitant to fully stretch - but I'm not sure if that is normal, or I'm just looking for things in the hope of finding out what's wrong. My husband and I have checked all her limbs and paws, stretched all her legs/joints, moved them, felt them... and she doesn't appear to flinch or cry at any of it. I've felt her all over for lumps, bumps - nothing. I've pressed on all her ribs/chest and felt her belly - and she hasn't cried (although not sure she would if I'm doing it - she knows I wouldn't hurt her deliberately). I've watched all of her gaits for any signs of lameness or limping - nothing. She is eating well and all of her food, sometimes a little slowly - although she's never been a gutsy dog - so that's not unusual. She still wants to walk and is active and fairly normal, her poos seem to be fine. After a process of watching and monitoring - my thoughts are either stomach pain, or maybe a sore muscle in her back/shoulder region where it may not cause her to limp. I'm just unsure what to do. Should I rest her, and monitor her for a while and see if she gets better - and if not, at least maybe have a better idea of what might be the cause and then take her to the vet? I've cut out all treats etc, in case hubby has given her something that is causing her to have a sore belly (he is fond of giving her buttered bread and ham)... Or would you take her to the vet, with little to go on, and potentially expose her to testing that may be unnecessary and will put her through alot of stress (and not sure she would co-operate if I'm not there)? It's killing me... they are only small whines and otherwise she appears okay... but I hate to think she may be in some kind of pain, it makes me cry (being pregnant, that's not unusual) - and I can't think straight as to what is the best course of action to take at the moment. Hubby says to wait and see, because she is fairly normal otherwise... but I'm such a worry wart... Any ideas/suggestions??? Sorry for the long and overly emotional post - again, it's the pregnancy LOL (plus worry for my baby girl)!!! Thank you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Take her to the vet there could be a number of things wrong with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 KL - that's a real touigh one - it does sound as though something isn't right, but I remember your posts about Sasha's opinion of vets (my Kirra says she shares the same opinion, although doesn't take it to the same extremes with our lovely vet.) Would your nice vet be amenable to a discussion on the phone about possibilities and options? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Thanks for the understanding Tassie - it is hard with Sasha. She's a very 'special' dog ;) I'm not against taking her to the vet, I just figure that without much to go on at the moment, whether it would be beneficial to put her through that stress, not knowing how cooperative she would be- or wait until I have more 'evidence'. I was just at home for lunch, and went through the whole procedure again. Moved each limb and felt it/gently flexed it... felt each paw thoroughly, between the pads etc. Felt her tummy and ribs/chest, even felt down her tail and around her bum region (just in case). Nothing... she just looked at me strangely... She ate her lunch eagerly. When she came inside, she didn't hesitate to jump up onto the bed (before I could stop her), although she did seem a little more hesitant to get off... but seeing she doesn't like the whole getting off part it's not totally unusual but it could be something. I noticed when she laid down on the bed, she did not make any crying sounds - once she was down she heaved a big sigh - which is fairly normal for her (she lives such a tough life ). Maybe I will try to ring her vet - see what he says is the best course of action for now is... whether that be to bring her in or wait and see how she goes for a few days. I'm just stumped why it's not all the time, just random... and it's not an obvious pain (where she would yelp out loud or jump up or flinch)... Just very confusing. I think I've ruled out tummy though, I'm sure if it was tummy related she wouldn't be eating normally or pooing normally. Sigh... dogs, who'd have them?? (I would of course :D ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Sibs Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 For the peace of mind, I would take Sasha to the vet for a proper check up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 For the peace of mind, I would take Sasha to the vet for a proper check up. Thanks CW EW... gee your two have grown up so much Such a gorgeous pair!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ams Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Is it possible to get a vet to come to you so she won't be as stressed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Is it possible to get a vet to come to you so she won't be as stressed? I have considered that Ams - on a number of occasions. My fear is that she will become afraid and suspicious of people coming into our home after that (and at the moment she loves nothing more than visitors). She loves people she knows, but strangers... no. She is okay if they don't pay her any attention or if she can back away if they go to pat her, but once they come at her and she knows they are trying to touch her, or 'want' something from her, she can get very upset (especially if she is being held in a confined space or by someone where she can not move away). I don' t think that will change, regardless of where she is. We've made progress with our current vet (she's had vaccinations, a needle biopsy and he has felt her over briefly for her general check up - although it was brief cause she didn't like it one bit)... however, she can be very unco-operative and gets so worked up sometimes (especially if it involves alot of touching) that I'm not sure, without more to go on, if it would be beneficial (with so much adrenalin pumping she'd be more worried about what he's doing, than if she feels pain). I guess he would probably give some anti-inflams and we could see how she goes... Or at least feel her belly and rule that out. It's more about what you can and can't do with Sasha that rules things out... I know people are probably thinking that I'm over reacting, but if you saw the pure panic when a vet/stranger approaches her and she is expected to stay and let them - it's pretty bad. We are taking baby steps with her to try to adjust her, and it's been successful so far especially with the help of my Dad, who is also very calm with her - and together with the vet and his attitude I've been so proud of her progress. So I'm trying not to undermine that with unnecessary and possibly useless testing if possible. It's a weighing up game with Sasha... That's why it's always so hard to know the best course of action with her. I don't want to set her back in her progress for something that may potentially be minor, but I don't want anything to get worse either and want her better again asap of course. With the lump she had, I didn't hesitate to whisk her off to the vet... but for something that isn't quite defined the decision of when to take her or whether to wait and monitor/maybe rest/eliminate possibilities first is a tough one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 If she were my dog I'd rest her for a couple of days, semi bland diet (nothing new or fancy) and book her in with a chiro. I wouldn't subject her to the stress of vet tests unless she is ill or in obvious pain. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 If she were my dog I'd rest her for a couple of days, semi bland diet (nothing new or fancy) and book her in with a chiro. I wouldn't subject her to the stress of vet tests unless she is ill or in obvious pain. Good luck +1 You know her pretty well KL - I reckon you'll pick it up if you think she needs mroe attention. One thing I thought of that you could add to you monitoring is gum colour and capillary refill. I think in your shoes, I'd be having a chat to the vet ont he phone- or in person (without Sasha - sounds as though he 'gets' Sasha. Pity it's not predictable, otherwise I'd suggest trying to video her and show him. She's been such a lucky girl to have found you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Just on the Vet stuff, perhaps you could engage them to help desensitise her. Maybe you are already doing this? I would have no hesitisation in trying some valium before the visit, if the Vet was agreeable. By doing a few visits where she hops on the table, gets roast chicken (she will be more likely to be hungry with the valium on board) and a very basic exam, and hops off. So many times I offer this for free within my clinic (not the drugs obviously but the training part) and no-one can ever find the time to come do it, it is SO beneficial to the dog to have some calm foundation to think back on. I also feel, that for all dogs, but in particular the scaredy ones, doing the Crate Games program is the very best way to prepare them for possible hospitalisation in the future - just in case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 The chiropractor would be a good start but not if it will freak her out too much. They need to be able to prod and poke to find what is wrong. Other than that I would be seeing the vet. You know your own dog and if you think something is wrong, it is. From what you describe it sounds most likely to be her back but could also be a neurological problem. Have you tried touching her face again? If she whimpers or cries when you touch her head or face, it indicates head pain and is not something to be taken lightly. Unfortunately none of the causes are good news but a dog suffering pain in the head can become quite dangerous and unpredictable. I was bitten suddenly and quite badly by one of mine that turned out to have brain damage caused by meningitis and my girl I lost in June to cancer, suddenly yelped in pain when I touched her head, confirming our suspicions that she probably had a brain tumour as well as the chest tumours we found on x-ray. Even is Sasha has to be sedated first, I would be getting her thoroughly checked all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboy Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 chiro ,our little rescue did little whimpers here and there nothing obvious ,and the chiro found she had a little knot or thing out b/n her shoulder blades ,its all done by feel so its not too frightening for them he just pops them up on his bench and feels all over them the dogs seem to know and trust.(they bite the vet tho) and 2 mins and its over .Go chiro first . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Have you thought of trying to desensitize her to hating the vet? Start taking her just walk her in, let her look around and leave, repeat until you can go one step further each time. My old dog hated the vet but the more i took her ( she was ill she had no choice) the more she relaxed about the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions - I value them all. I especially value those that understand the predicament I face with Sasha - and that it's not always as black and white as I'd like it to be, and sometimes I feel like a bad person - but every decision I make is always made in Sasha's best interest after being carefully weighed up. Tassie and SecretKei, thank you for your lovely words... she may have been lucky to find me, but I feel exactly the same way about her Dancingbcs - something for me to think about. She doesn't seem to have a problem with me touching her head or face or accepting pats, so hopefully it is nothing neurological - but it was something that crossed my mind, and something that I will indeed keep in consideration. Yesterday during my check of her, I actually felt all around her ears, eyes and face in general and she didn't seem to have a problem. Yesterday she was monitored closely and for the rest of the day, did not make any crying or whimpering sounds - and seemed to have no problems moving around and acting like a goof. However, this morning - I noticed that when she came in to my bedroom when I was getting ready for the day, she usually lies down behind me and watches. She went to go down into the 'lie' position, got a tiny way down then got back up again. I tried to get her to 'lie' during our training, and not even for a schmacko would she do it. I kept repeating 'down', and (bless her heart) she did every other trick to try and get that schmacko, but wouldn't lie down. I have watched her though and of her own accord she will lie down (no crying or anything). Perhaps it is only when she goes into a down position from a straight sit with her back legs tucked neatly under her??? When she does it of her own accord it's generally from a sloppy sit where both her legs are tucked over to one side... (again, this could be a coincidence - just because I'm overly monitoring her). And yet, doesn't show any hinderance in any other movement... it was my first wedding anniversary yesterday, and hubby bought me flowers and a balloon (which she HATES) and she started being silly when I tried to show it to her (and that it's not harmful) and raced around the lounge room, up onto the bed, back down again etc... So it's really confusing. The fact that she is hesitant to go into a down position is a concern to me though. I think it may be time for a vet visit, even if he can't feel very much or anything - we can just discuss her symptoms and it's a chance for them to 'bond' I feel so helpless, like I need to be doing something for her. Staff N Toller - thanks for your advice. We've found a vet that seems to 'understand' Sasha, and is quite happy to work with us to try and help her - hence why we've actually had some improvement from the hysterical mess we used to have with other vets who weren't willing to bother with her. I did speak to him originally about sedating her on her first visit, but he asked us not to - he wanted to see her in her natural state... so we didn't, and she actually wasn't AS bad as what we'd seen previously and has continued to improve from there. He has been a Godsend, but still so much work to go. We've changed a few other things as well - and a trip to the vet is now nowhere near as stressful, we can get there without car vomits. I will definitely do some research on Crate Games - as my only real fear now is leaving her at the vets for treatment. I've discussed the situation with the vet, and possibilities etc, but I'd much rather get her to a point where she can be left and treated without becoming hysterical. I appreciate your advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 If the vet is prepared to work with you and Sasha, there would very few times she might need to be left at the vets. Always be prepared for it if necessary but in most cases, if you ask, good vets will let you stay with your dog provided you don't get in anyone's way. I have hardly ever left a dog at a vet's and never overnight. If they need surgery I make an appointed time, check before we leave in case they have to postpone it and the take the dog out and wait while they do the surgery. I wait with the dog until it has woken and the vet gives the OK to take them home. I then stay with them to monitor them for the rest of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 If the vet is prepared to work with you and Sasha, there would very few times she might need to be left at the vets. Always be prepared for it if necessary but in most cases, if you ask, good vets will let you stay with your dog provided you don't get in anyone's way. I have hardly ever left a dog at a vet's and never overnight. If they need surgery I make an appointed time, check before we leave in case they have to postpone it and the take the dog out and wait while they do the surgery. I wait with the dog until it has woken and the vet gives the OK to take them home. I then stay with them to monitor them for the rest of the day. I'm pretty sure my vet would also be happy for me to do that (if needed) - he is very understanding and supportive of the effort I've put into trying to get Sasha more adjusted. I'd like to be able to get to a place where she wouldn't need that though, and she can allow other people to perform basic caring functions for her, without me being there - or without me doing it myself. I don't know if we will ever get there - but we can only try, and keep chipping away. She is happy to take treats from the vets and nurses and will sit in a room with them with no problems, she just doesn't like them to touch her or get too close where she knows they want something from her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 Okay - so I did a few tests at lunch time... just to narrow down and confirm things... She definitely will not go into a down position from a neat, back legs tucked under her sit. She just won't, not even for food. However, in desperation (I could see she wanted to do as she was told but obviously can't for whatever reason) she went to her bed, sat with her back legs tucked to one side (a sloppy kind of sit) and would go into a lie down position from there. Didn't cry or anything - but not sure if it doesn't hurt that way, or it hurts LESS that way. She wasn't too keen to go back into a sit position from there though - although that command isn't always foolproof anyway. It's so bizarre. Still no limping or hinderance in movement, but will only lie down when her back legs are tucked to one side. I also noted that when she got up she didn't seem to stretch with much enthusiasm again, it was a very 'careful' stretch (not a full one) both front and back. I have booked an appt with vet for Thursday morning (it was the last appt for the vet she is comfortable with this week). Hopefully she will get better before then, but if not at least he may be able to give me some indication of what it might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 will she lie still and relax with a warm wheat bag or two along her back ? that might help ... poor girl - it must be awful for you , knowing helping her will cause her to panic.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 will she lie still and relax with a warm wheat bag or two along her back ? that might help ... poor girl - it must be awful for you , knowing helping her will cause her to panic.. It is awful - but all I can do is try to do the best I can for her. But I just can't ignore the now blatantly obvious signs, and her distress at not being able to physically do what she is being asked. She is such a pleaser. At home, she is a very laid back, gentle dog - so I'm pretty sure that when she comes inside to bed for the night, she would allow a wheat bag - I will give it a try, thanks. I'll pop it into her doona with her, she loves to be wrapped up and snuggled at night (big sook) so probably wouldn't even notice them if I wrapped her up and hid it in there!!! I feel relieved now that I have made the vet appt. I think I now know that it's my only choice knowing that her symptoms are not getting better and she now avoids the action that was causing her the distress. So, weighing it up - it's worth putting her through some stress (hopefully not too much) to find out what may potentially be wrong. I also feel like I now have something for the vet to go on - have narrowed it down a bit so that even if she won't co-operate he may be able to figure the most likely cause from there. I just hope my little (big) girl is okay, and it's nothing too major. I'm such a worry wart over her - maybe cause she is 'special' in her own way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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