Screaming Staffy - Help!

[WreckitWhippet]

My method of crate training a SBT pup, is to put it in the crate ( after being out to the toilet ). If it squeals, ignore, when quiet and having settled or had a little sleep, take the pup out to the toilet and have a game etc. Do not over use the crate during the day, use it as a place of rest after play/training and free time in the yard.

At night after the intial carry on ( I've found they settle very quickly ) , they are only taken out if the make a noise and wake for the toilet. Once they've been, it's back inside and back to bed, with no fuss.

Winter is your best friend, as they soon learn that waking up means outside to the toilet in the cold. They quickly learn to put their heads up their bums and stay there from 10pm til someone gets them up at 6 in the morning.

[suziwong66]

Can anyone suggest what we can do to help her settle? I’ve moved the crate into the bedroom, have a hot water bottle and a ticking clock. I wonder if the crate is too big (we bought one that will be big enough for her when she’s fully grown. We considered maybe using my husband's office for her to sleep in - it is in a building where there are no residents to disturb - it would allow her to cry and scream withour disturbing anyone, and then hopefully learn after a week or two that the behaviour is not acceptable. We would drop her there at night for bed and collect her early the next morning. What do people think about that possible solution? I am dreading going to bed tonight because I know what’s going to happen and if I give into her behaviour it will only reinforce the crying. But if I let her do it, the neighbours will kill me! What do I do? I have wanted a puppy for so long and my husband and i finally decided to do it after much serious consideration - but I had no idea it would be this hard. I am afraid I may have to get rid of her and that would break my heart. The breeder told me she was placid and we did so much research, but I am at a loss about what to do. Help!

i forgot to add, that Susan Garrett's crate draining dvd "Crate Games" is a wonderful resource if you want your puppy to love their crate. The dvd teaches you to create value for the crate. Worth every cent. Work hard at creating a wonderful relationship between you and the pup; you can do it...even as a part time single puppy parent

[Mason_Gibbs]

Dont go leaving the poor pup at the office on its own thats just cruel. What are your plans for this pup during the day when you and OH are at work the whole day ? Pup cant stay in the crate the whole day.

[just1more]

Their screming breaks your heart doesn't it...and makes you listen out for a knock on the door asking if the RSPCA should be called

I brought my SBT boy home 6 weeks ago now and I got that for the first 3 nights!!! I was starting to think I'd done the wrong thing but the one thing that saved me was a suggestion from another DOL'er who said give him one of my worn shirts in his bed with him and guess what...night 4 sweet silence!! He sleeps in our laundry with a heated bed pad and the door in open with a piece of timber only 600 height so plenty of warm air from the rest of the house gets in. He did wake a twice but I simply hopped up with no talking, took him out for a wee and poo, put him back. After a couple more nights he woke once a night for wee's then in just under 2 weeks he was sleeping from 10:30pm to 7 am and keeping his room dry I know I'm probably VERY lucky for it to happen so quick! Our nightly routine from that age was feed around 5-6pm then lets him do what he wants until 9:30/45 then I would take him out for a wee, at that age I would offer a little to eat(not doing that now at 14 weeks) then a gentle play for 20 mins or so, back out for wee's and poo's then bed time. I did this every night and he nows does it all himself (he has an awesome in-built clock...lets me know it's bed time when I'm on here too long LOL)

Don't give up they are soooo worth it!!! As others have suggested, leave a note for your neighbours that it WILL NOT go on forever! Most people will understand ...well, Ripley just woke up so it must be time for me to hop off and go to bed :D

[koalathebear]

Poor you, I feel your pain. Our second dog got settled in a lot faster than our first puppy but we had learned a lot by then. I think unless people have gone through a similar nightmarish experience, it's hard to fully understand/sympathise.

I'm going to extract below some posts from my 'puppy diaries' for Elbie. I'm sorry it's so long but I'm hoping it will help because you will see that we went through a very similar experience - he was an absolute angel during the day and a demon at night. If you stick with it, the pain will end :D

Monday, April 5th, 2010 12:50am - Howler

The puppy is fed, played with, has a toy a hot water bottle, a kong toy, a clock and is in our room in his crate but it is his first night here so he is crying and howling most heart-breakingly. He doesn't need the toilet because I have taken him out twice now. he stopped howling after half an hour but now he has started again. He has a lot of volume for such a tiny creature.

Monday, April 5th, 2010

The puppy howled all night. Everything we've read though told us not to give in and we should just let him howl but while we were ok (sort of!) with him yowling away in our bedroom and stopping us from getting any sleep - we were extremely worried that the neighbours were going to complain ... We haven't found our own place yet but we knew that we couldn't get a puppy after we started working so while the timing is right for puppy-dom in terms of work, it's really not right in terms of housing. Yes, I knew we considered the risks when we decided to take the risk anyway ... but still, I am anxious ...

I don't know how the dog managed to howl all night without passing out. This morning when my alarm went off at 6am, I took the create outside and tried to get him to do his poop poops :p I was mildly successful and he spent the next half hour exploring the courtyard which was fine.

We can't keep him in the crate all the time of course and so we haven't been fast enough getting him out the door so we've had at least 5 puddles in the kitchen and one number two ... :p I'm getting laundry done now and today for a few hours, OH will be baby-sitting while I go off to buy:

1. alarm clock

2. windex

3. more paper towels

4. something to spray anything the dog piddled on in the hope that we can mask the smell so that he doesn't come back to do it again

I really do not know how single people manage to look after puppies. When I had Kitt, there was my brother, Mama Koala and Papa Koala to help out. Now there's just OH and me and after last night's experience, we have decided that we do not ever want children ;)

Tuesday, April 6th, 2010: Second sleepless night with the puppy ...

Last night was as bad as the first night despite having followed the advice of many, many people ....

I have posted a plea for help at a dog forum. I might have interviews starting soon and while two nights without sleep isn't bad in the scheme of things, it can't continue and the noise can't continue or the neighbours are going to freak

Also, he now has a name. Elbie ... or L.B. I won't explain the acronym for fear of offending ;)

later on the same day

We are hoping very much that Elbie will settle down tonight. We've been monitoring him closely to try to avoid any accidents in his crate tonight. We're also going to move him closer to the bed so that he can see us and maybe this will reduce his panic - although we are still determined to ignoring his yelping ... I am very tired, though and we are taking him to the vet tomorrow and I have a job interview on Friday afternoon.

A desperate plea for help on a dog forum - Help needed for problems with new puppy

Hi - we just got a new puppy named Elbie on Sunday. He's an 8-week old Kelpie-cross. By day, he is absolutely adorable and very well-behaved. He loves cuddles, will crawl into an open lap and just loves to follow us around. He plays beautifully with strangers, isn't yappy at all and is remarkably quiet (in the day!) for a puppy.

Weirdly enough, he even seems to love his crate and by day goes in voluntarily for a nap or just a rest. In just a day, he seems to have learned his corner of the garden which is to be his toilet and when outside he has been trying to make it to that corner to do his business. We have been crate-training him and have been giving him three meals, water only at meals but he can drink as much water as he likes at meals. The problem we have right now is that our angel by day turns into an absolute puppy monster at night.

We have read very extensively about puppy's first night, crate training and toilet training but reality is always a bit different ...

He goes into his crate voluntarily enough. He has a toy in there, a little alarm clock, a warm blanket and we have a little radio to play late night talk-back on a very low volume. We try to get him tired out before bed - it's very easy to tire him out usually - just a few runs around the yard. His crate sits in our bedroom because the other areas of the house aren't very dog-appropriate at night. We try to take him downstairs every 2-3 hours to go to the toilet but here's the problem...

From the time 'bedtime' starts, Elbie not only cries, he howls, whimpers, howls, barks, moans and makes every sound known to man and then some more. He's incredibly loud, sounded anguished and I suspect we're going to get complains from the neighbours soon. It's been two nights now and each night is the same, he screams and screams and screams - whether crying/barking/howling. We are following the rule of 'ignoring' him but of course we have to take him downstairs every 2-3 hours so that he can go to the toilet and even though we do try to wait for a moment when he's quiet to take him down, given that he is almost never silent at night, it's unavoidable that sometimes we look like we're going to him when he's howling. We are very business-like with him though and take him down to the toilet patch and will praise him if he does his business but otherwise try not to interact with him.

Last night was a problem, despite the fact that I tried to take him down every 1-2 hours, he managed to poop three times and made an absolute mess of his bedding and toys - the back deck was strewn with poopy mayhem this morning and it's been a very slow business trying to tidy it up. All three warm towels/blankets I had set aside for him are soiled and I have to clean them today and his toys all need to be cleaned, too ...

So my problem is, what are we doing wrong? I'm afraid that by ignoring him when he's crying and barking that he's just going to think it's ok to bark at night. Some people say that the crying only lasts 1 night, others say even up to two weeks. I know that he misses his mother and brothers and sisters but we've been trying to make it as non-scary as we can. We even put a little light on in the bedroom last night so that he could see us.

Unfortunately we have to do this by way of crate because we can't have him wandering around on his own at night. During the day he seems so eager to please but at night, the sounds that come out of him are almost terrifying.

We are going to try to train him more during the day to be in his crate when the door is closed but at present, we can't distinguish between his "I need to go to the toilet" yowl and his "I miss my mother" yowl ...

If anyone can help we would be most appreciative. We've already grown attached to him - right now as I type, he's asleep with his head resting against my feet for comfort. Alas, there could be real problems if his nighttime howling continues like this. Thank you very much in advance.

*

Helpful response: My chihuahua puppy, cried and cried for like two solid weeks. Finally she is just occasionally bitching when we go, but nothing too crazy serious. At night, what helped us calm her is to put the crate not 6 inches from the edge of the bed and when she would stop whimpering, we would wake up and say, 'good girl for being quiet,' and stick our fingers through the bar so she could lick/smell them. Well, no we, really, just me.

It worked out pretty well and after a month we were able to move her crate clear across the bedroom, and if she cries now, all we have to do is tell her, 'go to bed, peach, it's bedtime' and she settles in with her heating pad and kong.

Maybe try bringing his cage closer to your bed at night? It resulted in me getting no sleep for like, two solid weeks (probably more since she was sick for a while and had to be fed- by me- at 2 am), but now she's fine. I've also had her accidentally get the runs while she is in her cage before she can make it to her litterbox (she's litter trained, in-cage since she is so tiny, the vet recommended it) and the poor thing never made a peep to let us know and instead just sat in a pile of poop all night. It broke my heart so bad! I was so sad for her. Lucky for us, the apartment above us (the only neighbor we have) is vacant, so when she did cry it was dead of winter (no one outsideto hear) and of course no one lived up there. :3 Good luck!

Friday, April 9th, 2010 - Elbie the Puppy has stopped crying at night

It's actually been two nights but I wanted to make sure that the first night wasn't a fluke before posting about it given that the first night was the night after his vaccinations. Wednesday night, he was pretty subdued because of his vaccinations but by the late evening he was quite lively again. As mentioned, we placed the crate near the bed and got him very settled and talked to him. Then as I lay in bed, I had my fingertips in the crate so that he could lick/smell them as he liked. He also liked to lean against my fingers and sleep on them:P When I got up to wash my hands, he'd whimper a bit but not yelp. That night, every two hours I was taking him downstairs and bringing him back. Again he'd whimper a little bit at the beginning but stop after he could lick my fingers. So Wednesday night there was no high volume crying/barking/howling etc. Last night, OH took his turn at being responsible for taking Elbie down for toilet every 2 hours and Elbie appeared to have become accustomed to the routine. He was very quiet when he went to bed, then each time he came back from his toilet,he'd sit and wait very quietly in his crate looking at me soulfully as OH went off to wash his hands.

Last night he didn't even whimper let alone cry/bark/howl and he was perfectly behaved so now he's as well-behaved at night as he is during the day. Not too bad in the scheme of things - if only we'd tried the fingertip access on the first nights we could have saved ourselves 3 nights of stress and woe We were so terrified not to "break the rule" of ignoring a crying puppy that we didn't realise that we could put our fingers into the crate when he was calm so that he didn't get agitated to start with - then there was no risk of teaching him that bed behaviour reaps rewards. Argh. Dog psychology :D

*

As you can see, we went through a pretty similar experience to you. The sleeplessness and the stressfulness in worrying about the neighbours was very tiring. Also, I swear I had never seen so much poo in my life. Also, unlike other people, as a puppy Elbie screamed ALL NIGHT LONG with only the occasional pause where I would hold my breath and hope that he had gone to sleep - only to find that he would start barking, wailing, howling and screaming again like a demon. I found out that part of the problem was that the 'breeder' had let Elbie sleep in her son's bed so he was used to sleeping in a bed not a crate :p Nonetheless, in just a few days we were able to stop him crying at night by just putting our fingertips into the crate at night.

We started out with him in a little travel crate like this:

We moved the crate further and further away from the bed until after a week or so, we moved the crate down to the kitchen without him crying.

Then we migrated him into this larger crate

I was pretty tense/stressed about it but it turned out fine. When we moved house, he was a little unsettled for the first two nights but only cried for about 10 minutes and then he was totally fine. Elbie was almost fully house trained by four months having only the very rare accident. We took him out every two hours, then every three hours, then every four. Eventually he slept through the night without problem.

By the time our second puppy came, we were better prepared. Hoover cried a lot the first two nights but he settled very quickly and he was also house-trained very quickly. If you hang in there and keep to a routine, you'll be fine. Both my dogs are now perfectly behaved in the house with no accidents, no damage or destructive behaviours and are left at home alone for 10 hours or so.

In case you don't feel like reading all of the above, the suggestions are:

1. Put the crate near the bed, put your fingertips in the crate

2. Gradually move the crate further away and out of the room if necessary

3. Toilet the dog after each meal or drink. Take the dog out every couple of hours even at night - you'll get a sense for how long she can hold on. With Hoover, we were able to jump to 'no late night toilet stop' pretty quickly. Some people are lucky and don't have to take their dogs out so constantly but our problem was that we could not distinguish between the: "I miss my mum" scream and the "I need to poo/I am rolling in my own poo and very uncomfortable!!!!!!!" scream

4. Have a toilet command so that your dog learns to associate the command with what you want her to do - makes life easier when it's cold. Elbie toilets on command, Hoover does, too - although he's stubborn about it when it's raining :p

5. During the day, leave the crate door open and only close it now and then

6. During the day, put surprise treats and toys in the crate and praise like crazy when your puppy goes in

Good luck!

ETA: Also, when Elbie was a screaming puppy, he found this song quite soothing - I kid you not

Edited August 7, 2011 by koalathebear

[k9angel]

You've only had her 2 nights, give her time to settle in.

I would not be leaving her alone at your husbands office. I agree with other posters, that would be just cruel. Among other things, what if she was stolen or there was a fire? no one would be there to help her. I wouldn't be able to sleep with worry at night if it were me. You need to keep her at home with you, so she can get used of her new family/pack, not be seperated from them.

Is this your first dog? it usually takes them a good few days to settle in, esp babies, but they're all different. Some take longer, others quicker.

I'd be putting her crate next right next to your bed, as close as possible, until she's used of it.

Do you sleep with a lamp or tele on? if so, I'd turn it off so your room is in darkness. Maybe just use a torch when you take her out for wee wee's.

Also when you say she has a hot water bottle, do you have a cover on it? she might be getting burnt, if not. Those things can get very very hot if not covered.

Also your comment on not wanting to bond with her, incase you have to give her away, she probably senses that. Imagine how she feels being taken from her Mum and siblings, flying on a aeroplane and then turning up at a home where her new Mummy is unhappy and crying.

Just relax and love her. She needs you more than ever at the moment. Explain to your neighbours what is going on and I am sure they'll understand.

Also when she is old enough (had all her shots) why not look into dropping her to a puppy/doggy daycare (if you both work) I imagine she'd get bored at home all day on her lonesome, esp if she doesnt have a doggy friend and/or a yard to run and play in.

That way, she'll get to mix and mingle with other people and dogs and you'll have peace of mind while you're at work. Just a thought, but please don't leave her in a crate all day, whatever you do. The vet at Auburn runs a puppy day care, I am sure there are other vets that do the same. Some people drop their dog off everyday, others just a couple of days a week. They drop them off in the morning before work and pick them up in the afternoon. I love seeing their tails wagging when they are awaiting their owners return. They're like excited little kids.

Goodluck, she'll settle eventually, just try and be patient.

[Mason_Gibbs]

Great suggestion about doggy daycare !!

[BC Crazy]

Most puppies scream & cry & most of them are hard work to a point in the beginning, like children.

I never look at them as 'hard work' though cause I just love them & you do what you have to do in order

for them to settle into a loving family life.

I wouldn't of thought a SBT would be a suitable choice for an apartment. They need lots of exercise & from the

ones I have been around they aren't exactly a great pick for a small space. I'm thinking "bull in a china shop"

scenario.

Crates are a safe haven for you puppy & he has to be trained to use it, not a thing where you lock him up all day

while you are at work.

Little ones need time to settle in & definitely don't leave pup on his own anywhere. Husband's office or such. What if

something went wrong? Try & relax & you will probably find that your puppy will calm down too.

Good luck with your newby.

Edited August 7, 2011 by BC Crazy

[lashton]

Thanks for everyone's comments. Last night was much better and we're feeling very optimistic! I went to visit the neighbours to explain to them what was happening and once they took a look at her they were very supportive! She woke about five times during the night but managed to settle herself within 15 minutes each time. We have the crate set up so its (in theory) a happy safe place. She always has her water bowl in there and we feed her in there every night and morning, and then remove the food bowl. She woke at 6 this morning and I waited for her to be quiet before releasing her from the crate with a treat and lots of praise. She was a bit confused and anxious but managed to settle nicely into a walk outside - with wees and poos on the grass and more treats and praise!

I'm in two minds about taking her out to toilet during the night. We have laid down newspaper and astro turf (to reinforce the grass message) in one corner of the crate. The crate is large enough so that she can sleep in their and toilet during the night if she has to without soiling her bed. I just feel that if I take her out in the middle of the night when she cries, she will get the message that crying = release. That's the opposite of what we want.

I will be using the crate throughout the day after walks and play time - just in 15 minute intervals so that she comes to see it as her own special place and nothing to be afraid of. It will also help me reinforce that crying will not get her released!

I can see now that its just a matter or perserverance and setting boundaries. I guess I wasn't prepared for how emotional I would be with the screaming - I know she isn't in pain, but it hurts me to hear it! And having my husband away has made it more challenging. But I guess it will only get easier from here. She seems to be seetling in nicely and we even had a play date last night with one of the neighbours and their son. She enjoyed chasing their cat behind the couch!

Thanks again everyone for all of your supportive comments and advice - I know people can get very defensive and strong-willed when it comes to these topics, so I appreciate you relating to my experience rather than attacking where I may be going wrong at this stage. I know where to come for tips and hints from now on. I will post some photos of our baby soon!

[dancinbcs]

No You should never put a toilet area inside the crate. That defeats the whole purpose of using a crate for toilet training. You are making her soil her sleeping area and will cause her to be terribly stressed. If you want have an indoor toilet area, have it away from the crate and get up to take her to it. Otherwise put the crate in a small room and leave it open with the toilet area at the other end of that room. When she wakes she will need to toilet immediately. At this age she will be flat out to hang on for even a few minutes and making her do so could cause UTIs.

Having said that I do not recommend teaching a dog that size to toilet indoors at all. It is alright for little toy breeds because they will never grow big enough to make a real mess and can be toiletted indoors like a cat for ever but you will not want a dog as big as a Staffy toiletting indoors as an adult and if you let it go inside at all it it much harder to teach it to go outdoors later.

[koalathebear]

I'm in two minds about taking her out to toilet during the night. We have laid down newspaper and astro turf (to reinforce the grass message) in one corner of the crate. The crate is large enough so that she can sleep in their and toilet during the night if she has to without soiling her bed. I just feel that if I take her out in the middle of the night when she cries, she will get the message that crying = release. That's the opposite of what we want.

It isn't reinforcing - that's why you take her out at regular intervals e.g. every 2 hours or every 3 hours regardless of whether she is screaming or quiet. Just don't play with her when you take her out for toileting - toilet her, praise her and pop her back in the crate.

Some people are lucky that their pups sleep through the night as soon as they get them home but others of us have to put in the pain of late night wake-ups. It does pay off in the end - both my pups were taken out regularly (screaming or not) and they definitely got the message that toileting happens outside and knew that they weren't being rewarded for being noisy.

[lashton]

It's like reading my own thoughts! Thanks for the helpful advice! I'm in two minds about praising her during the night when she settles, as she needs to learn to sleep right through. But we will be doing crate training during the day in short stints, where she is released and praised/treated when she settles. I think this should reinforce that crying will do her no good! In theory. We'll see how we go!

Thanks again, your comments where the most helpful (and least judgemental) of them all. I think its because you could really sympathise with our very similar experiences!

Thanks again

[lashton]

I'm in two minds about taking her out to toilet during the night. We have laid down newspaper and astro turf (to reinforce the grass message) in one corner of the crate. The crate is large enough so that she can sleep in their and toilet during the night if she has to without soiling her bed. I just feel that if I take her out in the middle of the night when she cries, she will get the message that crying = release. That's the opposite of what we want.

It isn't reinforcing - that's why you take her out at regular intervals e.g. every 2 hours or every 3 hours regardless of whether she is screaming or quiet. Just don't play with her when you take her out for toileting - toilet her, praise her and pop her back in the crate.

Some people are lucky that their pups sleep through the night as soon as they get them home but others of us have to put in the pain of late night wake-ups. It does pay off in the end - both my pups were taken out regularly (screaming or not) and they definitely got the message that toileting happens outside and knew that they weren't being rewarded for being noisy.

Good advice. We haven;t actually had any accidents in the crate so far, but we ight try this technique and see how it goes. We have puppy training tonight andt he instructor is a staffy owner as well, so I will drill her for advice on this matter!

[lashton]

The idea of the hubby's office is a bad one - you are punishing a puppy for being confused and lonely.

I would be dropping a note to the neighbours to tell them you have a new puppy.

I would have the crate in the bedroom so pup can see you. Put yourself in the pup's shoes - first night away from mum and littermates, had the unsettling moves of a flight and new home and then in the middle of the night - wakes up in strange place without those comforts. You'd be screaming too.

So - move the crate to the bedroom, start as you mean to go on (i.e no dog on bed if that's what you want) and let the neighbours know.

Also - your comment re crating pup in the crate if you have to leave her home so she does not destroy things. A dog should not be left crated alone for long periods of time.

She'll be going to work with my husband most days, but there will be times we need ot leave her to our own devices - which is why we want her crate trained. We already have a lady in our building who is going to walk her on the days my husband can;t take her to work with him, so she'll not be left alone for long periods of time, especially while she's still so young.

[lashton]

Forgive me for not being bothered to read all replies, I'm about to run out of the door, so if this is a repeat of something someone has already said forgive me!

Your pup needs to be getting used to being in the crate with the door open before anything else... she has to get used to that crate being HER space and being comfortable in it... worked for my two, didn't need to have them in the bedroom with me (though I understand some prefer to do that) and only had noise from either of them when they heard us getting up the next morning... maybe we were just lucky!

Great advice! We'll try some door open crate drills today!

Edited August 7, 2011 by lashton

[persephone]

Toileting in her crate is NOT a good plan .. it will make it very hard to train her that outside is for toilet . Yes, it is easier for you ..BUT pups, and training them well is not easy ;)

people on here have bought pet shop puppies- kept so they had to toilet in their pen these were very tricky to train out of that "poo in my bed" habit ..and in an apartment you want a clean clean dog!!

Waking up during the night ...remember each time she wakes, up, whimpers AND needs to toilet ..and you don't take her out .. -each time she does this reinforces that it's OK to toilet in her bed., and that you won't pay attention to her call. then she , she may be very quiet ...but also may be having problems.

It is hard work.

I googled a few links for you ...

LINK

LINK

LINK

[lashton]

Crate training does NOT mean leaving a puppy locked in a crate most of the day, or while you are at work

A`puppy needs to learn and experience its world ..a puppy needs to run & play & chase the wind and roll in grass . A`puppy needs to walk on all sorts of different textures/touch and smell different things ..follow its humans and learn their body language ....

A puppy in an apartment needs some sort of toileting set up - as a small pup will need to toilet many many times during the day and a few at night. You need to train the pup to use whatever you are providing ..as puppy can NOT 'hold on' ....and will quickly get into a habit of toileting anywhere if training is slack.

I suggest you put puppy's crate next to your bed ..the poor little thing is in a strange place-- no other dogs ... no Mum ... she needs company and reassurance .

it would allow her to cry and scream withour disturbing anyone, and then hopefully learn after a week or two that the behaviour is not acceptable.

It would also teach her to soil her bed.

it would also probably make her VERY anxious about the crate ..and Lord knows what other things

This is not a thing which will do anything to help the pup's development.

I hope tonight you can show your puppy that you are close and make sure she has a toilet opportunity ..and that you both get some sleep.

Did you thoroughly research staffords? I wouldn't pick a stafford puppy as a good apartment dog ... they are active and strong and ,as you've found, can be noisy ;)

Yes, we did plenty of research and have managed to get many mixed reports about whether staffys are good in aprtments or not. The common consensus is that provided they get enough exercise and human interaction they will be absolutely happy in an apartment environment. Also, I came here for advice, not a scalding! We are not deliberately doing anything to harm the puppy or teach her bad habits, but are simply looking for advice from fellow dog owners. It seems different people and dogs have different ways of teaching and learning. It doesn't mean one way is superior to the other. She is being taken out every two hours during the day and last thing at night/first thing in the morning to toilet, and her crate is large enogh that we have been able to set up a corner with newspaper and astro turf (to reinforce the grass message) so that if she needs to go during the night she can without soiling her bedding. This is a solution that works for us and has so far seen no nasty accidents. Eventually she'll be able to hold on during the night, once she gets older. I don't want to take her out at night when she cries, as that will simply reinforce that crying = release. I have discussed this technique with our vet and he is in agreement that it is a good approach. And we won;t be leaving the puppy in the aprtment alone during the day - she will be going to work with my husband, and n the occassion she cannot do that, we have a neighbour who will walk her in the middle of the day. Thanks for the advice.

[lashton]

It sounded like we were skinning a pig – I have never heard sounds like it before and the neighbours must have thought we were murdering her.

You could always tell when we had Staffords in at the kennels, we had this sound all day every day... so glad Kaos is broken and doesnt do it

good luck with it

I am just stunned that anyone would choose a SBT as their first puppy to raise in an apartment. They are noisier than any breed on earth as babies. Not to mention it will be like having a wrecking ball in the apartment unless there is a huge amount of exercise and training provided as this puppy grows up.

Yes, we did plenty of research and have managed to get many mixed reports about whether staffys are good in aprtments or not. The common consensus is that provided they get enough exercise and human interaction they will be absolutely happy in an apartment environment. And we won't be leaving the puppy in the aprtment alone during the day - she will be going to work with my husband, and on the occassion she cannot do that, we have a neighbour who will walk her in the middle of the day. Thanks for the advice.

[lashton]

Okay well I am going to say it as it is, what are you thinking when you say you are going to leave a Stafford pup in a crate night and day? That is not how to crate train a dog. Puppies need their liberty and your ignorant comment that by locking her in and letting her scream it out really demonstrates that you must be a first time Stafford owner.

Do some research and get some assistance with the proper way to crate train a dog. The dog must learn to regard the crate as her 'territory' or 'space', not as a tool of punishment. Puppies need large amounts of liberty (freedom).

Having had Staffords for over 35 years, I can emphatically tell you that they need lots of exercise and to be part of a family environment, not segregated in a crate, if you plan on keeping her crated while you are at work long term do the right thing and give her up right now to rescue.

Another disaster for a harmless puppy, just waiting to happen.

How about you read my post properly and not jump straigt on the "you're a bad dog owner" bandwagon? We did plenty of research and have managed to get many mixed reports about whether staffys are good in aprtments or not. The common consensus is that provided they get enough exercise and human interaction they will be absolutely happy in an apartment environment - which she will! Also, I came here for advice, not a scalding! We are not deliberately doing anything to harm the puppy or teach her bad habits, but are simply looking for advice from fellow dog owners. It seems different people and dogs have different ways of teaching and learning. And we won't be leaving the puppy in the aprtment alone during the day - she will be going to work with my husband, and on the occassion she cannot do that, we have a neighbour who will walk her in the middle of the day.

[koalathebear]

How about you read my post properly and not jump straigt on the "you're a bad dog owner" bandwagon?

Try not to feel so upset about people's comments. It's the Internet. People are just trying to help in their own way ;)

I was incredibly lucky during my first week with Elbie that I received nothing but sympathy, kind words and support from people around me and online - I was sleep-deprived, regretting my decision to get a puppy, had Panda eyes and from memory burst into tears twice because I was so tired and stressed. I have absolutely no doubt that if I had posted to DOL at that time, I would have been absolutely slaughtered and received similar if not tougher advice than you have now. Thank goodness I didn't know DOL existed then.

All I can say is that you are tired and over-sensitive now and it's easy to take things the wrong way. You've posted on a public forum so you're just going to have to toughen up and develop a thicker skin - what people here say or think about you is irrelevant. At the end of the day, it comes down to you and your puppy and whether you are a good owner to your dog and only you have control over that. If you've been told that staffys can be good in apartments, clearly it can be done. I have two Kelpies who live in a suburban backyard and don't get walked every single day but they're fine and happy - we make it work. What's most important now is that you get through the first traumatic weeks

I often tell people that I feel quite a bit of regret that when Elbie was smallest and cutest, I was too stresed and anxious to really appreciate it! :D I really do feel your pain but just hang in there, things will get better. From what I hear, staffys are smart dogs and really want to please their owners so if you give your pup the love and patience she deserves, I'm sure you'll get there in the end.

We read a lot before we got our dog but it all went out the window when we had a screaming creature in our faces - it was also hard to read all the links people sent me. Just try to keep it simple and consistent. She's a baby and doesn't understand complex concepts.

1. Definitely don't let her toilet in the crate if you can help it. There are already going to be inevitable accidents which will mean that you will have to do a lot of cleaning so where possible, try to discourage toileting there.

2. Keep a big supply of paper towels and Urine-Free ready.

3. During the day, have lots of Open Door crate time.

4. When she's in the crate and quiet, feed her treats and praise her.

Also, dog ownership can be a constant challenge. I know that some people find it really easy and effortless but I find with my dogs that as soon as I overcome one challenge, a new one pops up!!! They definitely don't want me to be complacent Instead of being discouraged, I look back and think about how far I've come and how many: "Oh my god, how am I going to fix this one???" moments I've overcome and feel better.

Also, when I first got Elbie, it drove me bananas how many of my friends said: "You think that's bad, just wait until you have kids." Such an unhelpful comment :p

Edited August 8, 2011 by koalathebear