Christina Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I also fail to see where others are getting the idea that this pup is crated too much? From my understanding the OP's husband will be taking pup to work with him during the day and pup is crated at night, I see no mention of her being crated all day ..or did I miss something? I also think many have posted without reading the OP properly. The person has only had the puppy for a day & a night. Pup was crated & taken out some & then slept on owners bed. Both puppy & owner sound distressed. Pup because it has left home & owner because they did not realise puppies do all this. It did sound as though owner was intending to crate a lot more than advisable & asked advice on leaving pup elsewhere. Not a bad owner. Merely someone new to it all that is not sure what to do & that has one screaming pup, which if you are not used to it is a bit scary. People here also have varying opinions on raising a pup & crating so more confusion now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) When the pup screams at night, get up and take the poor bloody thing outside to the toilet. You might get up 10 times one night but it will become less frequent and eventually the pup will only wake you , when it needs to go. ETA: you don;t need fancy games, DVD's and a whole lot on nonsense to crate train a puppy. Just a bit of common sense and be prepared to get out of bed a lot in the first week or so. Edited August 8, 2011 by ReadySetGo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheWolf Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 When the pup screams at night, get up and take the poor bloody thing outside to the toilet. You might get up 10 times one night but it will become less frequent and eventually the pup will only wake you , when it needs to go. ETA: you don;t need fancy games, DVD's and a whole lot on nonsense to crate train a puppy. Just a bit of common sense and be prepared to get out of bed a lot in the first week or so. Exactly, thank god someone else get it! Bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 ETA: you don;t need fancy games, DVD's and a whole lot on nonsense to crate train a puppy. Just a bit of common sense and be prepared to get out of bed a lot in the first week or so. The above is so true, especially at this point when an overload of information is probably even more stressful. Keeping it very simple is the best way to go. I also think that having a puppy can be VERY confusing even if you have done some research. Some people don't crate-train and think it's horrible to cage a dog - before I got Elbie, some of the youtube videos that showed crated dogs received very virulent backlash about 'cruelty' to animals. Some people suggest leaving water in the crate with the dog, others do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Can we please refrain from using angry faces when someone is asking a question? Way to make someone feel terrible and just stop asking... I am usually very tolerant and willing to offer advice but just get so sick of new puppy owners who do no research on how to raise and toilet train a puppy BEFORE a getting one. If you don't know at least the basics of how to raise a puppy, don't get one. The OP has admitted she has never raised a puppy before but has these stupid and cruel ideas about how to do it and will not take the advice offered by many experienced dog owners on here. Anyone treating a puppy badly makes me very angry. This puppy would be far better off returned to the breeder who should also be rapped over the knuckles for selling a puppy into this situation in the first place. Totally agree dancinbcs, I understand we do not live in a perfect world but surely it would be pure common sense to research all you can BEFORE your new arrival especially if it is your first puppy. Making sure you have the "suitable" breed for you for a start. Upsets me no end because it is always the dear little pup that ends up suffering through no fault of it's own. And yes this breeder needs a wrap over the knuckles!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Can we please refrain from using angry faces when someone is asking a question? Way to make someone feel terrible and just stop asking... I am usually very tolerant and willing to offer advice but just get so sick of new puppy owners who do no research on how to raise and toilet train a puppy BEFORE a getting one. If you don't know at least the basics of how to raise a puppy, don't get one. The OP has admitted she has never raised a puppy before but has these stupid and cruel ideas about how to do it and will not take the advice offered by many experienced dog owners on here. Anyone treating a puppy badly makes me very angry. This puppy would be far better off returned to the breeder who should also be rapped over the knuckles for selling a puppy into this situation in the first place. thing is there is a lot of different advice re: crate training. Some sources do advocate locking the puppy in the crate whenever you aren't directly playing with it or taking it to the toilet (I think even Dunbar advocates this? Can't remember who but a very prominent trainer). Some say you should lock the dog up every time you are out (without realising that many people are out at work for 12 hours a day...). Now I'd never do this to my dog but I understand why newbies do strange things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just1more Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Can we please refrain from using angry faces when someone is asking a question? Way to make someone feel terrible and just stop asking... I am usually very tolerant and willing to offer advice but just get so sick of new puppy owners who do no research on how to raise and toilet train a puppy BEFORE a getting one. If you don't know at least the basics of how to raise a puppy, don't get one. The OP has admitted she has never raised a puppy before but has these stupid and cruel ideas about how to do it and will not take the advice offered by many experienced dog owners on here. Anyone treating a puppy badly makes me very angry. This puppy would be far better off returned to the breeder who should also be rapped over the knuckles for selling a puppy into this situation in the first place. Totally agree dancinbcs, I understand we do not live in a perfect world but surely it would be pure common sense to research all you can BEFORE your new arrival especially if it is your first puppy. Making sure you have the "suitable" breed for you for a start. Upsets me no end because it is always the dear little pup that ends up suffering through no fault of it's own. And yes this breeder needs a wrap over the knuckles!! Just wondering why it seems a majority of the responders on here to this person who is just wanting some HELP because they are smart enough to ASK in the first place, are attacking them because they have their own ASSUMPTIONS of where they are going wrong or what they haven't done???? This person has come on here for help. They have said they are new to dogs, have done some research and bought a pup from a breeder. There is NOTHING out there to tell people that the research that you are reading IS the best way to raise a pup for a first timer other wise there would be ONE book, ONE web site, ONE way to do everything so everybody would know but...look at that, do a search on how to raise/train a pup on the net and you get pages after pages of different people opinions on how to go about it!! There are MANY web site and books that advocate MANY stupid/cruel ways to raise/train pups but what is stupid/cruel in one persons eyes isn't in another, true? As for the breeder...who knows what the breeder has told this person so you shouldn't assume that the breeder of this pup is a GOOD breeder! Any mug with a dog, a bitch and a prefix can have pups!!! The breeder might be where this person may have recieved ways of training this pup. Shouldn't a GOOD breeder give their new puppy owners ideas of training their pups?? So saying that, maybe NOT sending pup back to a person who gives out possible bad advice and giving the pups new owner advice of a good person/book/DVD or...give them good, friendly advice YOURSELF ON HERE that YOU would give someone who YOU sold a pup too or advice that you have been given just might be an idea, and give this new "pet family" a chance before telling them to give up now???!!! Just like new pups have to start somewhere so do new pup owners!! I thought part of this site was for people to ask for help and help be given? But the more I read the more it seems like it's attack the newbie for asking "stupid questions". The only stupid question is one that isn't asked!!! Some of you out there might be fantastic dog owners and have a whole lot of experience to share with these newbies...don't scare people away with attacks!! How hard is it to just say "this is what I would suggest/do if it was me" and "good luck and have fun with your new fur-baby"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Just like new pups have to start somewhere so do new pup owners!! I thought part of this site was for people to ask for help and help be given? But the more I read the more it seems like it's attack the newbie for asking "stupid questions". The only stupid question is one that isn't asked!!! Some of you out there might be fantastic dog owners and have a whole lot of experience to share with these newbies...don't scare people away with attacks!! How hard is it to just say "this is what I would suggest/do if it was me" and "good luck and have fun with your new fur-baby"? True. DOL makes it look like Good Dog Owners are 'born' the same way the Goddess Athena sprang into being fully formed and fully armed from the head of Zeus ... but a lot of people become good and responsible dog owners after they get a dog and it's a process of trial and error, asking questions of those who have gone before you and finding out what is most suitable for your circumstances. Even then there's room for discussion because not everyone agrees on what being a Good Dog Owners constitutes. I still think that the OP was right to ask for help and people should have tried to be constructive and helpful in their responses so that the OP could make the best possible decision using the best possible information, a clear-head that is unclouded by emotion and distress. The reason I'm 'defending' the OP is that I think I'm a responsible dog owner (although I'm sure many disagree) but I started in pretty much the same place the OP did and I've managed to deal with each issue that arises. Like her, I put my dog in a crate during the day as 'practice' for the night time crating - it wasn't with the intention of crating the dog all the time, it was with the intention of making the dog accustomed to and happy with the crate during the day so that he would be willing to go into it at night. I realise that there are people who are aggrieved and who think that the OP isn't ready for the dog blah blah, but by the same token - those people should realise that if you attack someone who is feeling so fragile (no matter how right you are), they're going to go into defensive mode and the message is less likely to go through. I am not saying that we have to be nice to everyone and sing kumbaya while braiding each other's hair - I'm saying that we have/had an opportunity to affect the future of this puppy and help the OP give it the best chance possible. Further down the track - it gets so much harder to 'fix' things. Edited August 9, 2011 by koalathebear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ams Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Lashton how did last night go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal House Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I think people are just very passionate about getting it right from the start and want to pass that advice on. No one wants to see the original poster being given cruddy advice, and then later on you have a dog who is going to toilet in its crate, and possibly have multiple problems from being given wrong advice, or for ignoring the good advice from people in the know. If that makes sense. Anyway, not all breeders are registered, and not all registered breeders are reputable, so perhaps the breeder was in one of those classes, I really can't fathom why they would think a Staffy suitable for an apartment, but there you go. As has been mentioned by several people already, the pup should NOT toilet in his crate, please take it outside (or to a designated indoor doggy toilet in the laundry if thats all you have in an apartment) a couple of times a night and give praise etc when the pup does the right thing by weeing there. Then straight back to bed/crate. Also, just wanted to mention in case you weren't aware, please make sure the pup doesn't come into contact with other unvaccinated dogs and places like parks etc (Parvo can live for years in soil) until fully vaccinated as well (you did mention you had taken it to the park and its going to be going to work with your hubby). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullyisious Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) This puppy would be far better off returned to the breeder who should also be rapped over the knuckles for selling a puppy into this situation in the first place. Get off your High horse, she is asking for advice and to me sounds like she is taking it. Just like new pups have to start somewhere so do new pup owners!! I thought part of this site was for people to ask for help and help be given? But the more I read the more it seems like it's attack the newbie for asking "stupid questions". The only stupid question is one that isn't asked!!! Some of you out there might be fantastic dog owners and have a whole lot of experience to share with these newbies...don't scare people away with attacks!! How hard is it to just say "this is what I would suggest/do if it was me" and "good luck and have fun with your new fur-baby"? Great Post!! :D Edited August 9, 2011 by Bullyisious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 This puppy would be far better off returned to the breeder who should also be rapped over the knuckles for selling a puppy into this situation in the first place. Get off your High horse, she is asking for advice and to me sounds like she is taking it. After several people including me told her to not let the puppy toilet in the crate, she then said she preferred to do it her way. That doesn't sound like taking advice. I have all the patience in the world for someone that asks a question and when they get multiple responses saying "no you are doing wrong", takes the advice on board and admits they got it wrong. Constantly trying to defend why they are doing it wrong puts me offside immediately, especially when it means a puppy is suffering. Anyone who would even contemplate leaving a baby puppy in an unattended building all night has only their own interests at heart, not the puppy's. The whole tone of the posts seem to be that the puppy is just too much trouble and she seems to think that puppy can be raised like a far less demanding cat. A puppy is hard work and if you are not prepared to put in that work, get an adult dog or a cat and don't stuff up a puppy so it ends up being unwanted by anyone. Most dogs end up in shelters because because whoever raised them as puppies got it wrong. Staffy's are the most dumped breed in the country at present so if the OP is not up to huge amount of work in raising this one it would be better off elsewhere asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lashton Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 Can we please refrain from using angry faces when someone is asking a question? Way to make someone feel terrible and just stop asking... I am usually very tolerant and willing to offer advice but just get so sick of new puppy owners who do no research on how to raise and toilet train a puppy BEFORE a getting one. If you don't know at least the basics of how to raise a puppy, don't get one. The OP has admitted she has never raised a puppy before but has these stupid and cruel ideas about how to do it and will not take the advice offered by many experienced dog owners on here. Anyone treating a puppy badly makes me very angry. This puppy would be far better off returned to the breeder who should also be rapped over the knuckles for selling a puppy into this situation in the first place. Totally agree dancinbcs, I understand we do not live in a perfect world but surely it would be pure common sense to research all you can BEFORE your new arrival especially if it is your first puppy. Making sure you have the "suitable" breed for you for a start. Upsets me no end because it is always the dear little pup that ends up suffering through no fault of it's own. And yes this breeder needs a wrap over the knuckles!! Just wondering why it seems a majority of the responders on here to this person who is just wanting some HELP because they are smart enough to ASK in the first place, are attacking them because they have their own ASSUMPTIONS of where they are going wrong or what they haven't done???? This person has come on here for help. They have said they are new to dogs, have done some research and bought a pup from a breeder. There is NOTHING out there to tell people that the research that you are reading IS the best way to raise a pup for a first timer other wise there would be ONE book, ONE web site, ONE way to do everything so everybody would know but...look at that, do a search on how to raise/train a pup on the net and you get pages after pages of different people opinions on how to go about it!! There are MANY web site and books that advocate MANY stupid/cruel ways to raise/train pups but what is stupid/cruel in one persons eyes isn't in another, true? As for the breeder...who knows what the breeder has told this person so you shouldn't assume that the breeder of this pup is a GOOD breeder! Any mug with a dog, a bitch and a prefix can have pups!!! The breeder might be where this person may have recieved ways of training this pup. Shouldn't a GOOD breeder give their new puppy owners ideas of training their pups?? So saying that, maybe NOT sending pup back to a person who gives out possible bad advice and giving the pups new owner advice of a good person/book/DVD or...give them good, friendly advice YOURSELF ON HERE that YOU would give someone who YOU sold a pup too or advice that you have been given just might be an idea, and give this new "pet family" a chance before telling them to give up now???!!! Just like new pups have to start somewhere so do new pup owners!! I thought part of this site was for people to ask for help and help be given? But the more I read the more it seems like it's attack the newbie for asking "stupid questions". The only stupid question is one that isn't asked!!! Some of you out there might be fantastic dog owners and have a whole lot of experience to share with these newbies...don't scare people away with attacks!! How hard is it to just say "this is what I would suggest/do if it was me" and "good luck and have fun with your new fur-baby"? Thank you. I'll be removing this original post as the comments have done much more harm than good. Dogz online need to better moderate their users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Thank you. I'll be removing this original post as the comments have done much more harm than good. Dogz online need to better moderate their users. DOL is extremely mild compared to a few other dog forums that I can think of ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheWolf Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) Can we please refrain from using angry faces when someone is asking a question? Way to make someone feel terrible and just stop asking... I am usually very tolerant and willing to offer advice but just get so sick of new puppy owners who do no research on how to raise and toilet train a puppy BEFORE a getting one. If you don't know at least the basics of how to raise a puppy, don't get one. The OP has admitted she has never raised a puppy before but has these stupid and cruel ideas about how to do it and will not take the advice offered by many experienced dog owners on here. Anyone treating a puppy badly makes me very angry. This puppy would be far better off returned to the breeder who should also be rapped over the knuckles for selling a puppy into this situation in the first place. Totally agree dancinbcs, I understand we do not live in a perfect world but surely it would be pure common sense to research all you can BEFORE your new arrival especially if it is your first puppy. Making sure you have the "suitable" breed for you for a start. Upsets me no end because it is always the dear little pup that ends up suffering through no fault of it's own. And yes this breeder needs a wrap over the knuckles!! Just wondering why it seems a majority of the responders on here to this person who is just wanting some HELP because they are smart enough to ASK in the first place, are attacking them because they have their own ASSUMPTIONS of where they are going wrong or what they haven't done???? This person has come on here for help. They have said they are new to dogs, have done some research and bought a pup from a breeder. There is NOTHING out there to tell people that the research that you are reading IS the best way to raise a pup for a first timer other wise there would be ONE book, ONE web site, ONE way to do everything so everybody would know but...look at that, do a search on how to raise/train a pup on the net and you get pages after pages of different people opinions on how to go about it!! There are MANY web site and books that advocate MANY stupid/cruel ways to raise/train pups but what is stupid/cruel in one persons eyes isn't in another, true? As for the breeder...who knows what the breeder has told this person so you shouldn't assume that the breeder of this pup is a GOOD breeder! Any mug with a dog, a bitch and a prefix can have pups!!! The breeder might be where this person may have recieved ways of training this pup. Shouldn't a GOOD breeder give their new puppy owners ideas of training their pups?? So saying that, maybe NOT sending pup back to a person who gives out possible bad advice and giving the pups new owner advice of a good person/book/DVD or...give them good, friendly advice YOURSELF ON HERE that YOU would give someone who YOU sold a pup too or advice that you have been given just might be an idea, and give this new "pet family" a chance before telling them to give up now???!!! Just like new pups have to start somewhere so do new pup owners!! I thought part of this site was for people to ask for help and help be given? But the more I read the more it seems like it's attack the newbie for asking "stupid questions". The only stupid question is one that isn't asked!!! Some of you out there might be fantastic dog owners and have a whole lot of experience to share with these newbies...don't scare people away with attacks!! How hard is it to just say "this is what I would suggest/do if it was me" and "good luck and have fun with your new fur-baby"? Thank you. I'll be removing this original post as the comments have done much more harm than good. Dogz online need to better moderate their users. Comments and advice from long time Stafford breeders and rescuers have done more harm than good? You must be kidding, how about you take on board some of the knowledge and wisdom being offered from those who know and love the breed? As for Dogz Online needing to be 'better moderated', looks like you are an expert on everything including how to guarantee life long issues for that poor puppy! Perhaps if you saw the number of Staffords dumped in our pounds and the level of cruelty metered out to our breed through sheer ignorance you might understand why so many of us are passionate about their plight. Edited August 9, 2011 by SheWolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Dogz online need to better moderate their users. Our Moderators step in when needed and are usually fairly surgical in their approach . they do a terrific job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rileys mum Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 It saddens me that you feel the advice given has done more harm than good. The advice has been given with yours and the puppies best interest involved and i do hope you take some of it on board...even if you do pick and choose which methods suit you best (which is absolutely fine). Please try to understand, many people on this forum may not give you the advice you seek but they only want whats best for your puppy and, as some have already said, they work in rescue directly related to your breed of choice so also have an emotional aspect to the matter. All the best with your pup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 DOL is a very mild forum compared to others . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 One thing I'd like to ask, is was your breeder aware that you wanted to crate train and the pup would live in an apartment ? If so, they have really let you down as a new owner, by not beginning the crate training for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoL Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 So another newbie is pissed off because they haven't gotten the advice in the form they think they want. NO. You have been given the advice you NEED. Take it, it's good advice and it's FREE (unlike the medication you will probably need to pay for the multitude of issues that pup's going to have if you don't change your course of training now ). Dammit, I used a sad face! A Stafford that is ill trained, noisy, destructive, has seperation anxiety is only known as one thing: poundfodder (dammit another emoticon!) T hough it might sound drastic to you, what issues do you think forcing it to stay in its crate (which is supposed to be its safehaven security blanket) and soil its bedding will produce? Or blaming the pup for doing so? Or shipping it off to yet another strange place with NOBODY around at night just so you don't have to deal with it's noise when it's a breed that evolved around being a fundamental part of a family? You need to put the time and effort into the pup now. That means getting up a couple of times a night to let it out to toilet. Playing with it, training it, socialising it, figuring out a way in which it can stay in your apartment whilst you're out with minimal destruction without it being in a crate all day (good luck with that one!). Not to teach it how to become a well adjusted social adult (starting from right now) will lead to issues. Maybe not right now but I guarantee issues down the line. Take the advice given to you and use it FOR THE GOOD OF THE PUP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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