Advice Needed? Purebred Male Not Microchipped

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

i think you could write out your intentions clearly in a letter, and put a deadline - like a month, if you haven't heard back then you will assume that the breeder agrees to your terms - put that in the letter too. Send it registered mail so someone has to sign for it and you can verify it delivered. You could maybe email a copy of the letter also - with a request return receipt on it. If they use outlook, chances are you will automatically receive notice if they open the email. Other email clients give them the option.

If you're worried about legal stuff - that would mean getting a lawyer involved and by the time you're done arguing it all out, it's going to cost way more than the dog, the microchip, the desexing, the hip scores and everything put together.

I think hip scores require a general anaesthetic.

And it's possible if the breeder is listed on this site that they also read the threads.

And I am not a lawyer - this is not a substitute for your own legal advice - which is what you should get if you're worried about legal things.

[jandk2468]

So there are actually no canine association papers - have you confirmed this? I know it says QLD in your avatar but that is the default State unless you change it. Requirements for puppy registration in each State varies- you don't need chip numbers to register pups here in Vic if you are a hobby breeder as such.

I think if you have a payment receipt and the dog is chipped in your name, and there was never canine assoc registration then the dog is yours. However, you need to seek legal advice on your contract to be sure.

I haven't confirmed with the breeder, as having never been in this situation of owning a purebred purchased from a breeder before. However, I have spoken to other breeders, even of different breed dogs, and CCCQ paperwork must have each pups microchip # on it prior to the litter being registered.

I am in QLD yes, and I have even checked with the breeders local council to be sure. It was suggested to us by one breeder that if the breeder may have provided false numbers to on initial paperwork to get the litter registered? No idea about that tho.

[jandk2468]

I'm not overly concerned if the breeder reads this thread, as she is aware of our intentions to have him de-sexed once we receive a response from her.

I have not however mentioned our knowledge of the fact that his microchip status was a legal issue to begin with.

As you said, the legal costs of this could pile up quickly and i am not about to run down that path. I feel the breeder realizes this also, having been in the business many years, she may not have expected un-experienced buyers to feel that they have any say once a contract is in place. Being a registered breeder tho should mean you know you shouldn't be cutting corners or costs at the outset and then shouting "contract contract!" when something like this arises. Just my opinion.

I think I will take your advice of putting it in a letter with a deadline and stating that no response is taken to mean she is in agreement. I feel given the circumstances this is only fair.

and yes Dory the Doted One as you mentioned, it sounds logical having it that way, and we are in no way requesting she pay for anything else besides scoring if she wanted this done

[Kirty]

Registering with the local council and registering the pups with the CCQ are two totally different things. To register with the council, dogs must be chipped. It is YOUR job to register him with your council.

It is the breeders job to register the dog with the CCQ and I dont think dogs need to be chipped for this.

[jandk2468]

Registering with the local council and registering the pups with the CCQ are two totally different things. To register with the council, dogs must be chipped. It is YOUR job to register him with your council.

It is the breeders job to register the dog with the CCQ and I dont think dogs need to be chipped for this.

Yes, i realise the difference between the two.

And it is actually a requirement of QLD that this be done, I personally have just seen the paperwork on registering a litter (prior to any of them even being sold). AND it is a legal requirement in many councils of QLD (including the one the breeder is in), that every pup must be microchipped by 8 weeks, and must NOT be sold until chipped. (age doesn't matter here as he could be 5 yrs old and if I sell him I have to chip him if not done already)

[Baileys mum]

Are you absolutely positive that the dog isn't chipped?...I've heard of cases where the chip has moved, so this could be the case with your dog.

[BJean]

Yes we have had the dog for almost a year. We have had a lot of financial issues with my husband losing his job unexpectedly and I am expecting twins. So no, micro chipping our dog has not been a priority and I dont feel anyone is in a position to judge when you need to put family first over a pet.

As for desexing our dog, I HAVE spoken to the breeder about it. Our initial conversation (over a period of months) was with the thought that we would sell him back to her. And she was fine with that. And having discussed it more and had time to think about the possibilities, we decided to desex. Which we have spoken to her about.

I realize desexing is not always a cure to dominance, but our decision is not solely based on that alone. But I have spoken to an animal behaviorist and two other registered breeders who agree neutering is a positive step in our case.

Seeing as how the breeder initially broke the law in the first place, we have been advised that if the matter were to proceed legally (which we dont want), that our contract would most likely be void as it was not undertaken correctly to begin with.

My issue now, being that the breeder has clearly stated to me, "judging from his photos at this stage I do not wish to use him as stud over my bitches, but I would still ask you have his hips and elbows scored" and since having contacted her responding to this stating that our financial position with two more babies on the way is not going to support the $300+ amount we are up for to have these scores done, especially since she has said she isn't interested in having him as a stud, just so that we can then turn around and pay to have him desexed.

I am yet to hear a response. And with my pregnancy, time is of importance as we wish to have this issue sorted before they arrive which is not long now.

And I have to admit that I am not keen on having my dog go thru two anesthetic administered procedures in a short time if she does wish to have semen collected after his hips and elbows are done. I am nearly positive that if something were to go wrong, that she would not be paying for any treatment required or replacing him if he were to die. And no the risk may not be large, but it is still a risk.

I have to add that the breeder has not been nasty or unwilling to assist us.

We have no papers for him, nothing besides a receipt to say we actually paid money for him and her typed contract. He is not in our name for registration either. Once the terms of our contract are fulfilled (being if she uses him as a stud), we send proof of desexing to her and she sends us papers? Not sure whats involved there tho. And when we picked him up, the breeder was more than willing to allow for us to desex him if an issue did arise down the track so long as we called her beforehand, so this is not news to her.

basically you're trying to get out of what you agreed to do

and you want a forum feel good boost to make you feel good about reneging.

You seem to think that because the dog wasn't chipped this somehow means you're in the right.

whatever.

just do what you're going to do anyway.

But at least have the guts to do it on your own accord.

[BJean]

Registering with the local council and registering the pups with the CCQ are two totally different things. To register with the council, dogs must be chipped. It is YOUR job to register him with your council.

It is the breeders job to register the dog with the CCQ and I dont think dogs need to be chipped for this.

Yes, i realise the difference between the two.

And it is actually a requirement of QLD that this be done, I personally have just seen the paperwork on registering a litter (prior to any of them even being sold). AND it is a legal requirement in many councils of QLD (including the one the breeder is in), that every pup must be microchipped by 8 weeks, and must NOT be sold until chipped. (age doesn't matter here as he could be 5 yrs old and if I sell him I have to chip him if not done already)

... so when did you go about correcting the illegal status of your non-microchipped dog?

You're really clutching at straws here.

[Staff'n'Toller]

I'm pretty sure there was a legislation change only this year with the CCCQ and chipping puppies (happy to be corrected) so I think you should call CCCQ and discuss it as well as cross referencing your breeders prefix and your dog's date of birth with them to be sure.

[BJean]

I'm not overly concerned if the breeder reads this thread, as she is aware of our intentions to have him de-sexed once we receive a response from her.

I have not however mentioned our knowledge of the fact that his microchip status was a legal issue to begin with.

As you said, the legal costs of this could pile up quickly and i am not about to run down that path. I feel the breeder realizes this also, having been in the business many years, she may not have expected un-experienced buyers to feel that they have any say once a contract is in place. Being a registered breeder tho should mean you know you shouldn't be cutting corners or costs at the outset and then shouting "contract contract!" when something like this arises. Just my opinion.

I think I will take your advice of putting it in a letter with a deadline and stating that no response is taken to mean she is in agreement. I feel given the circumstances this is only fair.

and yes Dory the Doted One as you mentioned, it sounds logical having it that way, and we are in no way requesting she pay for anything else besides scoring if she wanted this done

Well you get experience in the smug stakes, that's for sure.

Edited August 4, 2011 by lilli

[BJean]

Dogs aren't put under anaesthetic when they're being collected. As far as I know.

There are conflicting views, as he has never been put to stud, some have said that as it is a once off collection he would be put under. But this may be different for different vets, I can only go by what I have been told.

That's really funny.

Are you serious?

Who told you that?

[periannath]

How old is this dog? Microchipping has been brought in as a registration limitation at different times in different states.You agreed to buy the dog unchipped and obviously were aware it was to be done.Were you in a hurry to collect the dog and cut her short of time to get the dog chipped?I bet she is regretting trusting you to do it now.

I don't think it gives you the right to consider the contract broken.At least morally.

If the contract says you pay for the health testing you should do it.As breeders we are under obligation to produce the healthiest puppies we can.She is doing the right thing for the breeds health wanting this dogs hips tested regardless if he is used at stud or not. The breeder is not responsible for the changes in your families finances either and while obviously now is not the best time for you to have the expense, this is part of responsible pet ownership to factor in the costs involved including the mirochipping you agreed to do.Assuming you are responsible for the testing costs have you explained to the breeder that you are struggling financially? She may well try find a solution that will work for both you.The dog should not need to be put under a GA to collect semen. Freezing semen is not cheap and it would make prefect sense that she would want to know his scores before she went to the expense of collecting him.

Breeders are constantly under pressure to be responsible and pet owners who agree to conditions like health testing for a reduced purchase price need to play their part as well!

Edited August 4, 2011 by periannath

[WreckitWhippet]

I thought CCCQ breeders had 12 months to register their litters with Dogs QLD ? Under 12 months and the breeder is still abiding by the rules and regs.

ETA: the sensible agreement would be if you want to desex, then the hips and elbows xrayed at the time of desexing. The dog only undergoes one GA and it's all done at the same time. Ask the breeder to pay for the xray and the scoring and you pick up the bill for the GA and the desexing.

Edited August 4, 2011 by ReadySetGo