Breeds - Hd And Ed Scoring Requirements

[Stolzseinrotts]

Further to Becks thread and the fact I have found out that some breeds do not require to be HD or ED scored and I seriously thought that they would be. Still shaking my head there!

I would now like to know which breeds do not score for HD and ED.

IMO I think all breeds should be scored regardless of size, small breeds get HD just like large breeds do.

Thank you in advance for your imput!

Please correct me if I have listed them wrong and please do help me to add to the list. I would like to compile a complete list of which breeds are testing and which do not have to.

Breeds required to be tested for HD and ED prior to ANKC litter registration and or club requirements;

Alaskan Malamute

American Staffordshire Terrier

Australian Shepherd (litter registration and club requirement)

German Shepherd Dog (litter registration and club requirement)

Labrador Retriever (litter registration and club requirement)

Rottweiler (litter registration and club requirement)

Breeds NOT required to be tested for HD and ED

Australian Cattle Dog (not required, but most breeders do test for HD / ED)

Australian Silky Terrier (no tests required)

Australian Terriers (no tests required)

Basenji (not required, but most breeders do test for HD / ED )

Bernese Mountain Dog (not required but most breeders choose to test)

Borzoi (no tests required)

Bullmastiff (not required to test, most breeders do test for HD / ED)

Dogue de Bordeaux (not required, but ethical breeders are testing)

English Setters (not required, but the Breed Club requires it)

Finnish Lapphunds (not required, but the Breed Club strongly recommends testing prior to breeding)

French Bulldogs (not required, some breeders testing for HD)

Great Dane (not required but some breeders choose to test)

Pomeranian (no tests required)

Portuguese Water Dog (no tests required, many breeders are testing)

Pug (no tests required)

Pyrenean Mountain Dog (not required, only a few breeders choose to test)

Samoyed (no tests required, 90% of breeders do test for HD / ED)

Weimaraners (not required but many breeders do test)

Edited August 19, 2011 by Stolzseinrotts

[BJean]

Further to Becks thread and the fact I have found out that some breeds do not require to be HD or ED scored and I seriously thought that they would be. Still shaking my head there!

I would now like to know which breeds do not score for HD and ED.

IMO I think all breeds should be scored regardless of size, small breeds get HD just like large breeds do. Thank you in advance for your imput!

why?

Edited August 1, 2011 by lilli

[angelsun]

My 45cm to 48cm and 13 to 17kg breed does not require HD and ED testing to be bred. I disagree with this, and it wouldn't be hard to bring it in, because to my knowledge there is not a breeder in this country that does NOT do these tests.

Did you know, that some of the highest rates of HD occur in some of the smaller breeds such as Pekes?

Did you know that the majority of dogs are not exrayed for this, because the breeders (and I"m talking long long time breeders) are convinced there is not a problem and therefore do not have to test, nor will they admit to having a problem inspite of documentation (many are quick to lay blame on the owner citing injury or dietary faults)

Yup it's expensive to do hip/elbows.....cost of being a breeder....a breeder, not just someone that puts a dog and a bitch together and gets a litter.

[BJean]

My 45cm to 48cm and 13 to 17kg breed does not require HD and ED testing to be bred. I disagree with this, and it wouldn't be hard to bring it in, because to my knowledge there is not a breeder in this country that does NOT do these tests.

Did you know, that some of the highest rates of HD occur in some of the smaller breeds such as Pekes?

Did you know that the majority of dogs are not exrayed for this, because the breeders (and I"m talking long long time breeders) are convinced there is not a problem and therefore do not have to test, nor will they admit to having a problem inspite of documentation (many are quick to lay blame on the owner citing injury or dietary faults)

Yup it's expensive to do hip/elbows.....cost of being a breeder....a breeder, not just someone that puts a dog and a bitch together and gets a litter.

I'm aware of HD being a health problem in smaller breeds.

I wasn't aware of the particulars of the peke, but I guess now I am.

Still I don't see how the particulars of the peke and breeds aforementioned, relates to all breeds.

Edited August 1, 2011 by lilli

[becks]

I think the point is that ANY breed can be affected with HD. Lilli do any breeders in your breed to hips or elbows? Also is your breed one that has a high pain tolerance and still gets on with life? I ask because in my thread you said if you can't see a problem in your dogs then they don't have a problem - but are they the type of breed (like other breeds) who don't show they are in pain until things are really bad? This type of thinking seems to be amoung the GS breeders to a degree and only recently are some starting to score - while most(of the handful to be scored) hips are good there have been a couple with really high scores (one that I have seen has no problem moving and being a clown)

(glad I have sporned such an interesting new thread!)

[angelsun]

Lilli, the point being, they are dogs....plain and simple..big or little..they are all built the same way when it comes to bone structure, ligiments, muscles etc...to believe that a chihuahua can not have HD simply because it weighs what it does, but a Great Dane can, simply because it weighs what it does, is hiding in the sand.

It's all relative really...yes the toy breed can weigh 2kilo's, but the bones/muscles/ligaments etc reflect that and proportionately, they are the same as the giant breed weighing over a hundred kilos.

Genetically, any dog can have a weakness. Some breeds are more predisposed to some things than other breeds. We hear of things like PRA in retrievers...but I have it in my breed too....sparingly, but it's there...why? Because all dogs have eyes...

The same applies when it comes to hip or elbow deformity or weakness in structure. To believe that breed A or B does not have or can not have any problems, is simply ignoring pure science and anatomical facts.

[Stolzseinrotts]

I think the point is that ANY breed can be affected with HD. Lilli do any breeders in your breed to hips or elbows? Also is your breed one that has a high pain tolerance and still gets on with life? I ask because in my thread you said if you can't see a problem in your dogs then they don't have a problem - but are they the type of breed (like other breeds) who don't show they are in pain until things are really bad? This type of thinking seems to be amoung the GS breeders to a degree and only recently are some starting to score - while most(of the handful to be scored) hips are good there have been a couple with really high scores (one that I have seen has no problem moving and being a clown)

(glad I have sporned such an interesting new thread!)

Yes thank you Becks ;)

I too know of a number of dogs with seriously high hip scores and they moved like a dream, were titled in the ring and lived to a ripe old age. So what I am saying just because a dog moves well and shows no signs at all does not mean it doesn't have HD or ED unless it is proved by xrays.

I think as breeders, guardians of our choosen breeds, I think we have a duty of care to screen for such things as HD and ED regardless of the breed. IMO not doing so is an injustice to the breed and a breeding program. We all know that any size breed can be affected by HD and ED and I think that we should be seen to be actively screening our breeding stock and trying to improve our dogs. Having saying that I am not saying you should be throwing the baby out with the bath water, but to give yourself the educated health picture of the dogs that you use in your breeding program is to me the ethical thing to do.

My breed has cut offs for HD, I agree with this. Sadly some beautiful dogs have been excluded from being eligible by these cuts offs, but that is the rules for State Club members (non members to do have to abide and can put any two breeding dogs together reagardless of scores). I do not wish to see the cut off reduced at this stage for my breed and would vote against this if a motion was moved to again reduce the combined score.

Now I started this topic as I was gobsmacked that Danes and Bernese do not have a requirement for HD and ED screening here in Australia, this totally shocked me.

I personally think all breeding dogs regardless of size should be screened but that is me.

So hence I have asked the questions to try and get a broad range of responses from breeders.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Stolzseinrotts

[BJean]

Lilli, the point being, they are dogs....plain and simple..big or little..they are all built the same way when it comes to bone structure, ligiments, muscles etc...to believe that a chihuahua can not have HD simply because it weighs what it does, but a Great Dane can, simply because it weighs what it does, is hiding in the sand.

It's all relative really...yes the toy breed can weigh 2kilo's, but the bones/muscles/ligaments etc reflect that and proportionately, they are the same as the giant breed weighing over a hundred kilos.

Genetically, any dog can have a weakness. Some breeds are more predisposed to some things than other breeds. We hear of things like PRA in retrievers...but I have it in my breed too....sparingly, but it's there...why? Because all dogs have eyes...

The same applies when it comes to hip or elbow deformity or weakness in structure. To believe that breed A or B does not have or can not have any problems, is simply ignoring pure science and anatomical facts.

I never said a breed cant have problems.

I am saying all breeds should not be blanket tested because some breeds have big problems with their hips while others dont.

A lot of it comes down to genetic populations and how they are selected.

Also probably I am influenced by the dogs I see and know in Kazak.

I know how they are culled out and I know I cant find a dog xray machine or anyone who would actually xray a dog.

And I know there is no need.

We can look at pure science and anatomical facts of the canine from many different ways.

(Worming and vaccinations also progressively weaken a dogs system but there is not one vet in Australia who would agree with that I suppose...)

Anyway interesting discussion and insight into the ethos of the general dog fraternity.

Edited August 2, 2011 by lilli

[BJean]

I think the point is that ANY breed can be affected with HD. Lilli do any breeders in your breed to hips or elbows?

In Australia, most breeders xray (I think).

In Turkiye and Kazak, no.

Also is your breed one that has a high pain tolerance and still gets on with life?

One group of dogs yes, the other group of dogs not to the same extent.

But in a working context, a dog compromised wont last long anyway, high pain tolerance or not.

In native environments getting on with life can mean lots of different things. Generally if a dog is sick for some reason it will succumb to secondary factors if ignoring pain from a primary factor.

[*Lolapalooza*]

Which breeds are required to xray? Labs, rotts and shepherds? Any more?

[Stolzseinrotts]

I have added to my original post.

I will try and make a list of all breeds of dogs, there will be two lists. I need all your help to compile the list.

1.Those breeds that are required to test for ANKC litter registration and or to comply with club rquirements.

2. All other breeds that do not have to test.

[*Lolapalooza*]

Further to Becks thread and the fact I have found out that some breeds do not require to be HD or ED scored and I seriously thought that they would be. Still shaking my head there!

I would now like to know which breeds do not score for HD and ED.

IMO I think all breeds should be scored regardless of size, small breeds get HD just like large breeds do.

Thank you in advance for your imput!

Please correct me if I have listed them wrong and please do help me to add to the list. I would like to compile a complete list of which breeds are testing and which do not have to.

In Bernese almost every registered breeder xrays, it is a breed club requirement to be on their breeders list

Breeds required to be tested for HD and ED prior to ANKC litter registration and or club requirements;

Alaskan Malamute

American Staffordshire Terrier

Australian Shepherd (litter registration and club requirement)

German Shepherd Dog (litter registration and club requirement)

Labrador Retriever (litter registration and club requirement)

Rottweiler (litter registration and club requirement)

Breeds NOT required to be tested for HD and ED

Bernese Mountain Dog (not required but some breeders choose to test)

Great Dane (not required but some breeders choose to test)

Pug

[*Lolapalooza*]

Further to Becks thread and the fact I have found out that some breeds do not require to be HD or ED scored and I seriously thought that they would be. Still shaking my head there!

I would now like to know which breeds do not score for HD and ED.

IMO I think all breeds should be scored regardless of size, small breeds get HD just like large breeds do.

Thank you in advance for your imput!

Please correct me if I have listed them wrong and please do help me to add to the list. I would like to compile a complete list of which breeds are testing and which do not have to.

In Bernese almost every registered breeder xrays, it is a breed club requirement to be on their breeders list

Breeds required to be tested for HD and ED prior to ANKC litter registration and or club requirements;

Alaskan Malamute

American Staffordshire Terrier

Australian Shepherd (litter registration and club requirement)

German Shepherd Dog (litter registration and club requirement)

Labrador Retriever (litter registration and club requirement)

Rottweiler (litter registration and club requirement)

Breeds NOT required to be tested for HD and ED

Bernese Mountain Dog (not required but some breeders choose to test)

Great Dane (not required but some breeders choose to test)

Pug

In Bernese almost every registered breeder xrays, it is a breed club requirement to be on their breeders list but still basically not enforced

[Starkehre]

Australian Silky Terrier breeders have no required health testing at all for this breed

[dog geek]

Poms don't get tested either - but should be, in my opinion.

Just makes sense to me, to spend the money, collect the data, and set the parameters.

[Baileys mum]

Australian Silky Terrier breeders have no required health testing at all for this breed

No required health tests for Australian terriers either.

[SparkyTansy]

Weimaraners don't have the requirement to be tested, but most breeders do test their breeding stock.

ETA

English Setters don't have a requirement although members of the English Setter Club of Victoria must test their dogs in order to be a member, I think. I do not know if they have a cut off to breed, however.

Edited August 2, 2011 by SparkyTansy

[Stolzseinrotts]

Poms don't get tested either - but should be, in my opinion.

Just makes sense to me, to spend the money, collect the data, and set the parameters.

I agree with you DG, collect the data and be informed!

[missymoe]

There is no compulsary testing for Bullmastiff dogs of any description, however most do test for hips and elbows...and we have HUGE problems with these issues!!!!

[Bjelkier]

Samoyeds don't require testing to register a litter but about 90% of breeders do test for ED and HD

EDT, Oops, wrote 99 instead of 90

Edited August 3, 2011 by Bjelkier