Olivebaby Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Hi. I have a 6 month old lab. She is very good natured except when it comes to bones. If we go near her when she has one she growls. Just now she came inside with one, I ordered her out and she didn't budge so I went to pick her up and I got a very very aggressive growl. She is not like this with food or toys just bones. We have tried taking them off her when she growls and then giving them back straight after when she has stopped but it doesn't seem to be working and her growl right now really scared me, so much so that I wouldn't have dared taken it out of her mouth. What can I do to stop this? I could obviously stop giving her bones but the problem would still be there and I would like to be able to address the issue rather than just removing bones from her diet. any help would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) It's called resource guarding and you are right to be concerned. Do you have children? I'd recommend professional help but for the meantime, I would only give them to her while she is crated. I would call her out of the crate before removing them have her wait while she sits in front of the crate before putting them in there. Edited July 28, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keira&Phoenix Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Agree with Poodlefan about professional help and only giving bones when the dog is crated. You shouldn't take anything out of your dogs mouth, that is just encouraging the aggression because your dog feels that it needs to protect the bone from you, and even scarier is that some dogs will start swallowing things if they think you are about to take it off them, trust me that is not a situation you want to be in, very expensive vet visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivebaby Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Thanks poodlefan. I don't have children. She has met some and is fine with them though. We don't use a crate. She sleeps in our small laundry. I'm really disappointed because in all other aspects she is a wonderful pup. Should we continue with taking her bones off her? perhaps giving a different treat and then giving it back after so that she knows we don't actually want to keep her gross bone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivebaby Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Yes we actually experienced that last week. She swallowed a sock when we started walking toward her to get it back. She thinks it's a game, but it's frustrating! She hasn't touched a sock since though, maybe throwing it up didn't feel to good to her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Thanks poodlefan. I don't have children. She has met some and is fine with them though. We don't use a crate. She sleeps in our small laundry. I'm really disappointed because in all other aspects she is a wonderful pup. Should we continue with taking her bones off her? perhaps giving a different treat and then giving it back after so that she knows we don't actually want to keep her gross bone. There's no way I'd be taking her bones from her. Its the fast track IMO to seeing you bitten. I'd either be calling her off them and rewarding that or teaching her to surrender them for a better treat. If you hear that growl, take it as the warning it is and don't push it. Biting comes next if warnings are ineffective. Resource guarding is a perfectly natural canine behaviour that's actually beneficial to the dog. Is she attending obedience training? If she isn't, she should be - compliance is something that needs to be reinforced, particularly with an adolescent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivebaby Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Yes that all makes sense. I will try offering her something amazing before she growls. And then reward her if she drops it. We go to obedience training with her on Sunday mornings But we have missed a few sessions. We definitely need to do more work with her that's for sure, as I have noticed a definite change in her over the past few weeks. She has become more cheeky and persistent when we tell her no. That's normal adolescence I know, the bone thing is my only real concern at the moment. We are young (25&23) and neither of us have had our own pup before (just family pets) so it's a new experience for us for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I posted on how we addressed this in one of my dogs in the training thread earlier today, but she was only a low level resource guarder, and as others said pro help is a good move. I wouldn't be disappointed, she sounds like a lovely dog and as poodlefan says just reacting how feels right to her, and letting you know she's not comfortable. When my girl would growl she would make submissive body language at the same time, as if to say "I love you and I don't want to growl at you, but you standing there makes me very uncomfortable" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivebaby Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Thank you. Good to have some reassurance that she isn't a demon :-) olive does exactly what yours does. She does look submissive but then this angry growl gets out and I am so angry with her. I will check out the other thread you just mentioned. Did you get professional help with this issue? Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) When we adopted her from the shelter they told us she had a bit of resource guarding, and I can't remember if it was the trainers there or a behaviourist we got in to help us get her settled in who advised the method I wrote up in the other thread. The central idea is to change the way she feels about you approaching rather than just suppress the behaviour, as then there is the risk they will skip the growl and go straight to biting. No point getting angry at her, she's just communicating edit: spelling Edited July 28, 2011 by Weasels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Don't dogs have different sorts of growls as well? When we play tug my pup gets growly - but it's different from her "protective" growl IYKWIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivebaby Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 I read your other post. It was very helpful thank you. I will try your method and if we don't progress then I'll get her some professional help. Is her growling a sign she doesn't respect me as the leader and perhaps she may think she is the boss of me instead of the other way around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivebaby Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Yes olive has different growls. The playful ones don't bother me and are actually quite cute but her "get away from my bone" growl really scares me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Don't dogs have different sorts of growls as well? When we play tug my pup gets growly - but it's different from her "protective" growl IYKWIM My girl has a growl for all occasions she growls when my husband gets home, when you rub her butt, when she wants our other dog to play, when she plays with humans and when she scratches her ear. All different growls though! My boy on the other hand only occasionally growls when playing tug with the other dog, not at any other time. Crazy kelpies :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Sibs Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Don't dogs have different sorts of growls as well? When we play tug my pup gets growly - but it's different from her "protective" growl IYKWIM Dogs have different growls to express themselves. Emmy is a growler and you definitely know the difference between play growl and not play growl.. but you also have to look at body language too. But, I agree with everything Poodlefan suggested. Edited July 28, 2011 by CW EW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I read your other post. It was very helpful thank you. I will try your method and if we don't progress then I'll get her some professional help. Is her growling a sign she doesn't respect me as the leader and perhaps she may think she is the boss of me instead of the other way around? I wouldn't think so. For one, guarding one type of object doesn't necessarily translate to general 'dominance'. Secondly I'm sure I've read that in hierarchical wild canid societies subordinate individuals will still try to guard resources against the breeding pair or parents, which makes sense in a resource-limited situation. I won't bore you with too much dog science, but my opinion is that general obedience training and working with a dog's natural reward system should work wonders regadless of whether you subscribe to a general dominance theory or not. Best of luck with her She must be adorable at that age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmkelpie Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) I went through the same problem with my pup! From day 1 she was lovely towards everyone but put a bone in front of her and you would most certainly be growled at if you walked anywhere near her. This really worried me and I pretty much went straight to a professional. She was assessed and a program designed for her and now I can call her off a bone and she will come happily and I can walk past her with no problems. The problem with resource guarding is now she is guarding a bone but next it might be a toy etc... Don't be too worried and don't take bones/food off her to teach 'dominance' this only reinforces to her that she needs to be protective of 'her' things. You are in WA so I would suggest asking for trainer recommendations on here, someone will know the right person to help you Btw it is important that you don't allow her to practice the behaviour, or it just becomes harder to fix. Best thing would be to pop her in a crate with a bone and let her out when she is finished. I only used bones my girl would fully digest e.g. chicken frames, lamb flaps etc so that I was never taking anything off her. Edited July 28, 2011 by cmkelpie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivebaby Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Thanks again guys for the very helpful advice. I wish I had a big enough place for a crate, I can see how beneficial they would be especially at around 8pm when mad hour sets in and Olive runs around like a maniac for 10 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Olive needs to learn the 'swap' game!!! when she has an ordinary toy of hers in her mouth .. show her a yummy treat and say "swap" when she drops her toy- she gets a treat . repeat, repeat ,repeat ..then maybe start taking the toy and giving a treat .... it's a game all our pups enjoy ...and let me tell yopu, it saves a LOT of angst later on! don't take bones/food off her to teach 'dominance' this only reinforces to her that she needs to be protective of 'her' things I also suggest you get professional help - aggression of ANY sort is not something to experiment with . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmkelpie Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) I also suggest you get professional help - aggression of ANY sort is not something to experiment with . Could not agree more! I grew up with a fear aggressive BC and it devastated me that I could not ever have her near other dogs. So when my kelpie pup began to show resource guarding towards bones I rang a dog behaviourist straight away. I wanted to get control of this whilst she was still young. And we have been successful in this. Re: no room for a crate, not a big deal at all, if you can ensure the backyard is empty you could just pop her out there with a bone (assuming she eats and does not bury), or just put her in the laundry. I only suggest a crate to save your floors I did this as we had to wait a while for our appointment and it is important not to let them practice the behaviour. Edited July 28, 2011 by cmkelpie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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