Hendra Virus

[Everythings Shiny]

In 1994 Vic Rails and 13 horses died of unknown causes. All animals on the property was tested (horse, cats, dogs birds etc) no results found. Then the search was spread to wildlife. It is now policy that all animals on a quarantined property be tested.

There is also a similar bug going around with SYMPTOMS of Hendra but is a longer effecting bug and with antibiotics goes away, we had a couple of scares through work a few months ago. Very scary.

[RottnBullies]

ABC News radio broadcast

Hendra virus claims fifth horse In NSW

[Everythings Shiny]

Its scary when more and more get sick.

I went out to check my horses rug tonight and he has a runny nose, naturally I started panicking, but there is no bats in this area atm thank goodness!

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

The 7pm report did a quick story and interview with the owners of dusty the kelpie with hendra virus antibodies. The bondi vet said that he didn't think the dog should be killed and the owners agreed. Some else said basically the dog might become mad (eg like rabies) and attack people. Urm. Didn't seem likely from the visual. And I don't think anyone reported horses becoming killer attack horses either or the bats.

I don't think Bondi vet knew it was a retrovirus. Even I don't know exactly what that means. Something like chicken pox that comes back as shingles? Bondi vet did say the dog should go to a lab for quarantine and testing (and experiments). I think I'd rather have my dog PTS if that was the choice.

I hope they find a better way. It's not like they're going to kill all the bats and people that get or have it.

[gsdog2]

The 7pm report did a quick story and interview with the owners of dusty the kelpie with hendra virus antibodies. The bondi vet said that he didn't think the dog should be killed and the owners agreed. Some else said basically the dog might become mad (eg like rabies) and attack people. Urm. Didn't seem likely from the visual. And I don't think anyone reported horses becoming killer attack horses either or the bats.

I don't think Bondi vet knew it was a retrovirus. Even I don't know exactly what that means. Something like chicken pox that comes back as shingles? Bondi vet did say the dog should go to a lab for quarantine and testing (and experiments). I think I'd rather have my dog PTS if that was the choice.

I hope they find a better way. It's not like they're going to kill all the bats and people that get or have it.

I agree - the idea of this poor family's pet in a lab is horrible. The fact that the Bondi vet suggested it doesn't surprise me at all

[Danielle]

The reason for putting the dog down is pretty clear. Once infected a host may recover and go into remission but the virus will sit dormant in the cells of the body. Once the host is stressed or the immune system gets low due to another reason, the virus will awaken and ravage the body again.

The virus attacks either the respiratory system causing pulmonary edema / septic pneumonia, or it will attack the brain causing encephalitis or meningitis. The inflammation and acute swelling of the brain can indeed cause rabies like symptoms. The victim is in excruciating pain, disoriented and can be aggressive.

So in conclusion the affect of hendra virus on a dog would not be unlike a rabid animal, therefore humane destruction is the safest method for the dog, it's family, and the local community. Not to mention, if the dog does get sick again it will shed more virus, possibly infecting it's family or other animals on the property.

I don't understand why people are finding this so hard to comprehend! I know it's sad for the dog, but we aren't talking about kennel cough here, Hendra Virus is Australias very own version of Ebola, the mortality rate and speed of the virus is comparitably similar to Ebola, it's not something to be played with!

[Guest lavendergirl]

The reason for putting the dog down is pretty clear. Once infected a host may recover and go into remission but the virus will sit dormant in the cells of the body. Once the host is stressed or the immune system gets low due to another reason, the virus will awaken and ravage the body again.

The virus attacks either the respiratory system causing pulmonary edema / septic pneumonia, or it will attack the brain causing encephalitis or meningitis. The inflammation and acute swelling of the brain can indeed cause rabies like symptoms. The victim is in excruciating pain, disoriented and can be aggressive.

So in conclusion the affect of hendra virus on a dog would not be unlike a rabid animal, therefore humane destruction is the safest method for the dog, it's family, and the local community. Not to mention, if the dog does get sick again it will shed more virus, possibly infecting it's family or other animals on the property.

I don't understand why people are finding this so hard to comprehend! I know it's sad for the dog, but we aren't talking about kennel cough here, Hendra Virus is Australias very own version of Ebola, the mortality rate and speed of the virus is comparitably similar to Ebola, it's not something to be played with!

If that is the case the authorities have not put out that information to the general public. What you are describing is the effect the virus has had on horses. As far as I am aware the authorities have stated that they "don't know" what the effects the virus would have on the dog and there is no evidence the dog is secreting the virus. So I don't think it is unreasonable for people to question the need to put down the dog and why it is OK to leave the bat population intact to continue spreading the virus.

[Kia]

well I for one am very greatfull for those who are sharing the information. While it doesn't directly affect me here in SA, it does make me aware that moving dogs from those areas needs a bit more thought and perhaps even testing before they are moved.

Just a question ....is it known for sure that the dogs will have the same symptoms as the horse and be affected with the same issues? While I understand trying to minimise the risk to people and other animals surely we need to gather as much information as we can....

[Danielle]

They know how the virus works in horses and humans, it's not unlikely that it would do the same to another infected mammal. And why on earth would the authorities risk human fatalities just for the sake of one dog? I love my dogs just as much as anyone else here, but there's no way I'd risk my child, my husband, myself or my local community for the sake of one dog. Nope, no way at all. The point you seem to be missing lavendergirl, us the fact that this virus kills people and fast. We have NO treatment at all, other than to try to alleviate symptoms or turn to life support, that's it.

And as ice already stated a few times on this thread, culling the bats is a pointless exercise. I'll repeat, bats are the most prolific animal on the face of the planet, cull one colony and it will recolonise within days. You may as well say cull all green ants, impossible, pointless and a waste of time, energy and money. We need to focus in a vaccine for horses and dogs first and foremost to cut out the intermediate host, then a vaccine for humans if need be.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Danielle

[WoofnHoof]

I do think in the case of pets and horses the owners should have a say in how much risk they are prepared to accept. For example on my property I have four horses, three dogs and me, I can restrict who comes onto my property and I can add a buffer fence to the one fence here that borders a public street so realistically the only person placed at risk from my animals being kept alive is me, so I believe I should be able to have some input in the decision. I do believe that there are probably more hendra-recovered animals (particularly horses) around than first thought and so I think this is an issue that needs serious consideration because I think people will find in the future that horses (and maybe dogs) will need to be certified hendra-free in order to compete or travel, maybe even to be registered.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

We have fruit bats in our Adelaide botanical gardens and occasionally in the burbs or where there are fruit they like to eat - so anywhere. They're also in Victoria. I think - could be wrong - that Tas and WA are the only places that don't have them right now.

The fruit bats we have are ones from up north. And they say that 30% of them carry the virus or antibodies.

My googling while avoiding wiki entries - on retrovirus defined those as virus that live in the RNA of cells not the DNA like other viruses. And said that HIV was one example and some forms of leukemia are caused by retrovirus. Rabies as best I can tell - is not a retrovirus. It's a Rhabdovirus.

Ebola is not a very successful virus (in humans) because unlike the common cold - it kills too many of its victims too quickly to be spread and perpetuated successfully. Hendra seems to have a similar problem once it hits the horse/human interface. Nasty I know but it means the rest of us are relatively safe.

This only includes info from the first outbreak...

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/spb/mnpages/dispages/nipah.htm

According to that article - hendra virus in one out of three lead to progressive encephalitis which can cause personality changes - sigh.

Hot soapy water is effective in killing the virus - but not so good if you've inhaled the virus or absorbed it through a cut or something.

Personally the more I learn about it the less comfortable I'd feel about patting Dusty. Will be interesting to see how it all turns out. Ie are antibodies the same as carrying the virus - probably not otherwise everyone who has been vaccinated against anything would be able to infect anyone who hasn't.

We really need more info generally about Hendra and we need a virus - and that was one thing I learned about retrovirus - because they are not DNA based - it's harder to develop a successful vaccine. So I still think we need the dog. But I still wouldn't wish a lab on it. But that's a personal thing. Some people think crating a dog is completely wrong even if the dog is willing to go of its own - as with Pavlov's dogs. They were pretty happy dogs desipte being lab dogs. Blech. Times and ethics relating to lab animals have changed a bit since then but it's still confronting.

[rubiton]

Thing is apart from bats (and think it would take a lot longer than 'days' to come back to a populated area after a cull) any animal that is positive is dead - its a death sentence via DPI so none of this 'its only a risk to me' you dont have a choice they just kill domestic animals but wont touch any bats.

Its already been mentioned that th ebasts are stressed due to lack of food due to natural disaster and have moved into populated areas. Much like Kangaroos do and they are culled if they start to overpopulate so cannot see why kangaroos are culled but bats posing a deadly threat are left to cause more issues. No one is saying cull the ones in their natural habitat only the ones that have come into populated areas.

Mrs rusty bucket - dont confuse Lyssavirus that the bats generally carry with hendra virus. The ones here are not known for hendra only the ones up in Qld and northern NSW - they havent mentioned testing bats at all in SA etc. Lyssavirus is nasty apparentrly but not a death sentence for other animals as hendra is

Edited July 29, 2011 by rubiton

[Guest lavendergirl]

The folk in Gayndah are now looking at legal action against the State Government for failing to take action in culling or moving the bats and therefore exposing them to health risk. There is a fear that the town water may be contaminated with the bat's droppings. The Government will decide in two weeks whether it will approve action to try and move the bats. Some of the townspeople have had to adandon their homes because the stench and noise is unbearable. The problem is just as serious in Charters Towers. And yes Danielle I do know that the virus has killed people.

[Kirislin]

Is Hendra the same as lyssavirus or is that different again because that's carried in bats and is similar to rabies too.

[oakway]

Is Hendra the same as lyssavirus or is that different again because that's carried in bats and is similar to rabies too.

Two different virus'

There is a vaccine available for Lyssavirus.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Lyssavirus is the family that rabies belongs to and I'm assuming that Australian bats don't have it.

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/4790_11112.htm#Flying_foxes

Following the negative results of HeV testing in a wide range of animal species, the search for the reservoir of Hendra virus focused on species present in both Mackay and Brisbane, and having possible contact with horses. Flying foxes (Pteropus spp.) fitted these criteria and subsequent screening showed antibodies to HeV in all four species on mainland Australia. Follow-up studies showed an antibody prevalence of between 20-60 per cent in flying fox populations across their mainland distribution. The virus was subsequently isolated from flying foxes, confirming that current infection existed in these populations. These findings (plus the absence of disease in experimentally infected flying foxes, and the detection of antibodies in archived flying fox blood samples) indicate that flying foxes are a natural host of Hendra virus.

It seems humans (and dogs) only get it via horses. It is in all fruit bat populations across Australia. They don't know how the horses get it, or how to stop them from getting it. Maybe not allow horses into paddocks that have fruit bat trees?

The link also includes a number to call if you have an injured or dead fruit bat.

Someone on the radio said that they tried culling bats and the infection rate went up. Ie culling made things worse. Maybe stressed bats are more infectious?

Edited July 29, 2011 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Ok there is some sort of australian version of lyssavirus that the bats do have and keep to themselves.

This has good info including how to reduce the chance of horses getting infected.

It's about half a MB to download or 480KB.

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/documents/Biosecurity_EmergencyResponse/Hendra-Virus-Info-Pack-072011.pdf

[Tapua]

The hendra virus Is a retrovirus which lies dormant but can reappear and rear it's ugly head again. When a virus like this comes back, the host then" sheds" the virus, making the virus contractable to those around it. This is why the recovered horse was put to sleep and it's probably why the dog will be put to sleep too.

A man in mackay contracted hendra virus and recovered, only for it to come back a year later and claim his life.

All this information I got from a Hendra Virus Seminar run by the CSIRO, Biosecurity QLD and the DPI a week ago.

The dog should be pts.

That is my understanding too - dreadfull for the people who own the dog to come to terms with - not too crash hot for the dog either But there are broader community (as well as dog community) health issues regarding the virus.Also at this point the locus of transfer still isnt clearly established between horse/dog/human, wether the dog could transfer from dog - human or dog- dog. So there are many issues still to be researched.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Tapua

[Showpony]

Hi,

There is a very good article on Hendra virus put out as a feature article by the CSIRO....if you google Hendra vrus you will find it.

The article state that initially Hendra was call Equine Morbillivirus but with further genetic analysis more appropiately Hendra was classified as a new genus of the paramyxoviridae family of virus'. This famiy has to branches and some of the virus included in this group are Measles, Mumps, Paninfluenza and Morbilli. Hope this helps

[frufru]

The very emotional attachment people have to their animals is exactly the reason that the DPI needs to take the PTS decision and not owners. The decison needs to be made for the health of the community - it is not about how individuals feel about their animals.

Thank you to those people who are providing information.