Predatory Behaviour

[gapvic]

Posted this in rescue forum too as unsure best place to ask this question...

Hi all,

Is anyone aware of any scientific proof that states that dogs kennelled for long periods may or do have an increase in predatory behaviour? I'm interested specifically in predatory behaviour / prey drive, and not other issues that may arise due to long term kennelling.

Thanks!

Larissa

[persephone]

All dogs? or is it greyhound/sighthound specific?

[gapvic]

Sorry, greyhound specific. Although it would be interesting to read any documentation that discussed the issue regardless of the breed.

I was told today that long term kennelling would increase predatory behaviour. I disagree with this.

[Aidan3]

Is anyone aware of any scientific proof that states that dogs kennelled for long periods may or do have an increase in predatory behaviour?

No, sounds like BS to me. There are increases in stereotypies, destructive behaviours, barking etc but the measures are taken "while kenneled" and any attempt to claim that they are enduring should be made with caution.

[persephone]

Just thinking out loud... could it be that, without the stimuli whilst kennelled .. when released, a dog may see a small moving animal/whatever and be much more reactive to it ? hence a supposed 'increase in predatory behaviour' ?

[gapvic]

I don't know Persephone. I could understand that the dog may be more excited etc, but would that make him more likely to forget himself and grab? I can only speak for our kennels, but the dogs are out twice a day in yards for about half an hour at a time, and they can also see our small dogs (in another yard) during this time. So it's not as if they haven't seen small dogs for months, and all of a sudden do if that makes sense.

When we assess, the dog comes out into the yard and is allowed several minutes to run around, toilet etc before the assessment begins to hopefully overcome the initial "WOW, I'm outside!!!" from the dog.

[persephone]

Guess I was also thinking a more restrictive kennel environment?..Singly housed.. restricted vision, etc.

Did the original comment come with a general 'kennel' scenario?Or after an incident somewhere?

[gapvic]

It was in response to one of our dogs. The dog in question, when initially assessed, gave us every indication that he would fail for unacceptably high predatory response to our small dog but when actually presented with the small dog, he was OK. We retested him several times. He went out to foster care, came back, and was here waiting for adoption. Last week I brought my own small dog to work one day and this particular dog happened to be out in a yard when I arrived. He became very excited when he saw my small dog and began ripping at the wire. To be honest, many greyhounds do this so I wasn't overly concerned, but it was enough that I decided we'd have another look at him. We retested him a few days later and this time he switched straight into prey drive and tried to grab our small dog.

With this particular dog, he was extremely ball focussed and once he saw that ball, that was all he wanted. When tested previously we had a ball in the yard which we use to get our small dog to run, and as soon as the dog saw the ball then he ignored everything else. On this final assessment last week, it was undertaken in another yard and we didn't have a ball. My gut feeling is that this dog was more obsessed with the ball than the small dog, but once the ball was removed from the equation, it gave him time to actually focus on the small dog in front of him. Does that make sense??

But then someone mentioned that they thought it was because he'd been kennelled for a while and that was what led to the increase in predatory behaviour. My feeling is that the behaviour was there all along, it just needed the right situation for the dog to show it to us.

Most greyhounds have been kennelled for many years prior to coming to us, so if long term kennelling increased predatory behaviour then I guess I'd expect to see more dogs fail assessment. But if I'm wrong, and if there is some document that proves this, then perhaps we can change the way we do things to accommodate this.

Edited to add that all our dogs are singly housed, and this dog in question was in our old kennel block that does have restrictive vision (all kennels open onto an internal walkway, so they can only see the other greyhounds until they are put out in the outside yards).

Edited July 26, 2011 by gapvic

[persephone]

Not qualified to really make informed comment - but it does sound as if the kennelling exacerbated his prey drive...

We were always taught, (with guide dog training) That a lot of problems a dog may have - can be masked during training/constant environment - but may well re appear under a change of handler/environment. Therefore, initial 'gut feelings' were an important thing... (remembering the GD's often had inexperienced dog owners/handlers waiting at the end of their training - most were able to be rehomed as pets/detector dogs etc. )

[gapvic]

I do believe that too Persephone. I believe that most of my staff here could take any greyhound exhibiting high prey drive and train him to walk past a small animal without batting an eyelid. I also believe that if we then handed that dog over to an inexperienced owner, where the training was not continued and reinforced, the dog would eventually return to his base nature. But anyway, that's a little off topic, sorry

Why do you think, in this situation, the "kennelling exacerbated his prey drive..."? This was a five year old dog who had been kennelled the last four years of his life. Or is it perhaps something in our particular kennels that caused the increase?

[persephone]

I am so rusty I cannot really answer it clearly ... I hope someone knowledgable and coherent can help you ;) All i can think is lack of stimulus/ frustration/. I do remember customs/GD's all kept dogs kennelled fairly strictly .. it was believed that then, when they were taken out for training , they were more keen/focussed ..

Apologies for my mushy brain

[poodlefan]

Jean Donaldson has written some material on issues with long term kennelling. I can't post links from here but will try to get that done in the next day or so. If you search the net for 'jean donaldson' and 'shelter dogs' the links should come up.

[gapvic]

No problems Persephone !

Thanks Poodlefan, off to google Jean Donaldson now

[gapvic]

I found an article by Jean Donaldson that was really interesting. Part of it reads:

Barrier-related Barking and Aggression

Dogs get important information about other beings with their noses and through

up-close interaction and investigation. Most dogs therefore feel compelled to

make social contact when they see a person or dog. In a kennel, tie-out or in

many on-leash situations, they may be repeatedly unable to do so. The result is

barrier-frustration. Barrier frustration behaviors — barking, lunging and

aggressively displaying at dogs or people from behind bars, fence or glass —

exemplify the general concept of "thwarting": the physical prevention of an animal

behaving as it is highly motivated to behave.

Physiological stress responses, emotional states and certain well-known

behaviors (agitation, barking, aggression) can all be reliably predicted by

thwarting scenarios, especially chronic ones. The epidemic of thwarting

situations in the daily lives of dogs is not yet widely recognized, nor is the impact

it has on their behavior. Most notably, environmental exploration and

establishment of social contact with people and other dogs are prohibited by

leashes, fences and enforced obedience.

It would be difficult to design a more frustrating environment for a dog than a

kennel. In most kennels, dogs are kept alone in extremely barren environments

virtually around the clock, with some tantalizing visual access to the outside

world. This low-stimulation situation is then punctuated by the passing of people

and other dogs — they are always visible but they cannot be investigated. The

dog’s urge to meet and investigate is repeatedly frustrated. With repetition, the

sight of dogs and/or people becomes associated, through classical conditioning,

to the feelings of frustration and agitation. When the dog finally has the

opportunity to meet, his behavior is over the top in intensity and may be

aggressive.

The dog’s poor social behavior may then cause the staff to prohibit the dog from

further social contact. In addition, defensive responses from the other dogs he

encounters or punishment by walkers for unruly or seemingly aggressive

behavior may make the dog’s behavior even worse. The sight of dogs and/or

people may then be associated with a high likelihood of punishment and

aggressive responses from other dogs, along with the original frustration. This

results in further deterioration of behavior and a cycle develops.

Barrier frustration usually manifests in a shelter environment as dramatic barking

and lunging displays at passers-by to the dog’s kennel. This can bleed over to

on-leash lunging and aggression and, with sufficient time for classical

conditioning to take place, aggression directed at people or dogs, including out of

the original context of the kennel or other thwarting situation.

She does not specifically talk about predatory behaviour though, only aggression, and the two are quite different. I can see how aggression can increase in dogs kennelled long term, but still don't see how it would affect predatory behaviour

[poodlefan]

Yay, found the link here

Barrier frustration and social hyper-arousal might go part way to explaining the situation.

Are you sure what you witnessed was a predatory response? If it was, imagine repeated exposure to prey with no satisfaction of prey drive.. it would be pretty frustrating.

Edited July 26, 2011 by poodlefan

[gapvic]

Yes, no doubt it was predatory behaviour. All classic signs - stiff body, elevated heart rate, stalking then (attempted) grab.

[poodlefan]

Yes, no doubt it was predatory behaviour. All classic signs - stiff body, elevated heart rate, stalking then (attempted) grab.

Was there no repeat of the behaviour with a larger dog?

[m-j]

Posted this in rescue forum too as unsure best place to ask this question...

Hi all,

Is anyone aware of any scientific proof that states that dogs kennelled for long periods may or do have an increase in predatory behaviour? I'm interested specifically in predatory behaviour / prey drive, and not other issues that may arise due to long term kennelling.

Thanks!

Larissa

Sorry no scientific proof but I don't believe that is true, if that was the case I wouldn't have a job, which is to build drive in the pre race Greyhounds. I work with dogs that are and aren't kennelled and I haven't noticed a difference in their drive to chase or not to chase. I have done this with I estimate around 500+ dogs over the years so a reasonably large amount of dogs to compare. There are certain things I have found that impact on their drive but kennelling isn't one of them IMHO.

Having said that I don't use animals to build their drive though, which may mean my observations are not relevant to your situation.

[gapvic]

I personally believe you are correct m-j, which is why I did disagree with the statement. I really feel that if kennelling a greyhound caused an increase in predatory behaviour then 1. there would be less non-chasers around and 2. we'd have more dogs fail assessment as all greyhounds are kennelled for a significant amount of time.

Poodlefan, sorry, can't say at the moment what the dog was like with other large dogs other than greyhounds, and with them he was obviously fine. We don't often see greyhounds exhibiting predatory behaviour towards large dogs.

Edited July 26, 2011 by gapvic

[PAX]

I am not sure so am thinking out loud.

If I wanted to increase drive what would i do?

I would definitley kennel/crate the dog, remove all sensory stimulation. Just food for thought.