kazwa Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) Hi, I may be a few years out of touch here so I am seeking some clarifications in my understanding of the various registered dog breeder ,rules and regs that are "out there" on the net. Years ago when I was a registered doberman breeder in Tasmania I recall being a member of the Tasmanian Canine Association, having my breeder prefix and following a set or rules and standards to proceed with breeding my dobermans and improving the breed. I havent had dobermans for many years now so have lost touch with these things. These days it seems just anyone can call themselves a registered breeder if they have a council tag on their dogs collar. So, what I would like to know is..............when you see pups advertised for sale by so called Registered breeders and those so called registered breeders say they are registered with this or that council ( local shire council not canine council ) are they actually ? do they have a leg to stand on as far as calling themselves a registered breeder ? My confusion about this is made worse by every state having different rules to go by. I see adverts from people who run a set of ads for purebred poodles and calling themselves a registered breeder. Another set of ads for cavoodles. Then you google their details and up comes a dog grooming business with a long history of multiple puppy sales adverts, mostly mixed breeds, and a website that goes to excessive lengths to protest that they arent buying from puppy farmers and puppies come from breeder's who are registered with the governing kennel council for their state. How can someone be a registered breeder of so called pure bred poodles, and also sell bought in mixed bred pups ( well thats what they say anyway ) ........it seems like they are working both sides of the fence. Are such places fronts for puppy farmers ? Are they a re registered breeder of their dog of choice ( say poodles ) and using their poodles for creating cavoodles every other litter thus breeding a bitch every litter and not going outside some rules of their canine society ? I may have all this wrong as far as my suppositions go ( not the evidence ) but I am just trying to understand how all this works and how some people seem to use the term registered breeder very freely and with a great deal of poetic license ? Here to learn. Cheers Edited July 25, 2011 by kazwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_inoz Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 As far as I was aware.... A registered breeder is someone who is a member of their state's canine association, and has a prefix registered with them. And follows the code of ethics for registered breeders. Anything else is other people's 'play on words' to deceive the general public. (bias view of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) A registered breeder is someone who is on anyone else's register of breeders. In the case of the Canine Control Councils that means that they adhere to the COE's and/or COP's that are in place. In my case I am registered as a breeder with the Brisbane City Council, but have no intention of breeding at this point. It is just a way to have more than 2 entire dogs on my property legally. (FTR, all my dogs are neutered, but I don't have to if I don't want to. My next dog probably won't be for some time.) Yes - all a matter of perception and in some cases potentially misleading if not deceptive practice, but they can be 'registered' none the less. Edited July 25, 2011 by Agility Dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarracully Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Its a play on words. Some refer to local council rego whereas I always use it in relation to registered with a canine council. Its a bit the same as when they say their dogs are registered. Local council verses Canine Council. Unfortunately many people are not aware of the different interpretations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezy Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 misleading for ppl that do not know the dif between being reg with a council and rego with canine council I know a couple that thought they bought a purebred registered poodle , yeah it was council registered , but not reg with ANKC, they did not know the dif and did not understand the paperwork they received Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazwa Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) So, this can be an avenue for abuse in a way that a seller of pups can take on an air of respectability by using wording not everyone really knows the connotations of ? i.e. helps sell their pups no matter where and how they have been bred. Edited July 25, 2011 by kazwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 So, this can be an avenue for abuse in a way that a seller of pups can take on an air of respectability by using wording not everyone really knows the connotations of ? i.e. helps sell their pups no matter where and how they have been bred. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I have a prefix registered with NSW sheepdog workers Inc. I cannot however register my dogs with our states Canine council. So does that me a backyard breeder just because the state canine council doesn't accept working dog pedigrees on their show line registry. The body I am registered with has a code of ethics etc and it designed to promote the function of a dog for the purpose it was bred for rather than to have the look of being able to possibly do the job. So I guess that it can be a very ambigous term 'registered breeder' as it would depend on what hat you wanted to wear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Council registered & registered with a canine association is often not understood by many. The person you refer to breeding the registered dogs & then the purebreed & crosses may not be breaking any rules but it is not impressive or ethical however A person may be a registered breeder & abide by the rules & code of ethics for their canine association pertaining to their registered pedigree dogs. What other dogs they have & breed are not covered by the canine association therefore they can & do please themselves what is done with these dogs. There is no way of knowing if they are using their registered dogs to stud the cross breeds if they claim that they do not. Or where they source other puppies from. It really is buyer beware & do your homework first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 A registered breeder could be someone who is registered as a breeder with their local council, it could be someone who is registered with the Australian Association of Pet Dog Breeders , it could be someone who is registered with a breed's purebred dog stud registry or working registry, it could be an accredited registered breeder with their states purebred dog stud registry or it could be someone who is registered as a breeder member of the Master Dog Breeders and Associates. Fact is if you are a registered member of a group you are registered you dont need to have your dogs registered with the group. There are only 4800 registered ANKC breeders Australia wide - they are now a minority group so chances are the term registered these days carries a high risk that its registered with someone else. You also have to remember that you can be a registered ANKC breeder and still breed cross bred dogs or unregistered dogs. Telling someone in the year 2011 to only buy a puppy from a registered breeder could see them going straight to the biggest puppy farmer breeder in the country on our advice. Its time we all stood back and really looked at what a registered breeder is today and start to develop a different language to describe who we are and what we do I think. Members of the public dont have a chance of knowing this stuff - its an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I have a prefix registered with NSW sheepdog workers Inc. I cannot however register my dogs with our states Canine council. So does that me a backyard breeder just because the state canine council doesn't accept working dog pedigrees on their show line registry. The body I am registered with has a code of ethics etc and it designed to promote the function of a dog for the purpose it was bred for rather than to have the look of being able to possibly do the job. So I guess that it can be a very ambigous term 'registered breeder' as it would depend on what hat you wanted to wear dasha those of us that breed pure bred registered dogs with the controlling body of our state are aware of the persons like yourself and have every respect for you. To each their own. I believe that the OP was refering to BYB's that hide behind the word facarde of registered breeder when they are only coucil registered. They are infact telling the truth. This why many of us are putting the words Dogs Qld, Dogs NSW registered breeder Most people like myself and the OP take the words registered breeder to be someone like yourself or me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 The commercial dog breeders group Australian Association of Pet Breeders now have a registry system and their members are registered and so are their cross bred dogs. We need another description to describe what registered used to mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toy dog Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) when i describe "reg breeder" to anyone i always put ANKC registered breeder. in my screening breeders page on my website my opening sentence is The best place to buy a puppy is from an ethical registered ANKC breeder that places the breed first not their bank account. this covers all aspects i believe, these days puppy farmers/BYB are in every group even ours. Edited July 25, 2011 by toy dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 when i describe "reg breeder" to anyone i always put ANKC registered breeder. in my screening breeders page on my website my opening sentence is The best place to buy a puppy is from an ethical registered ANKC breeder that places the breed first not their bank account. this covers all aspects i believe, these days puppy farmers/BYB are in every group even ours. I think there are also some other breeders registered with groups other than ANKC which could also be classed in ethical registered breeder groups which complicates it even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazwa Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 So, if a registered breeder who owns for instance a registered schnauzer and is a member of Dogs NSW with her pedigree female schnauzer.............mates her schnauzer to a labrador twice to produce and sell crossbred pups.........isnt she/he going against the code of conduct for the association she is a member of ? Why would she/he sell pups as a registered breeder when the pups are deliberate crossbreds ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 In our Code of Ethics (WA) that would be going against the code of Ethics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazwa Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) In our Code of Ethics (WA) that would be going against the code of Ethics. I thought so. Its also against the code of ethics of dogs NSW Code of Ethics:"A Member shall not knowingly permit any of that Member's pure bred dogs to be mated to a dog of a different breed, to a cross-bred dog, or to any unregistered dog of the same breed or to a dog not on the Main Register unless:- i) such mating is for the health, welfare and/or the development of a breed or an aspect thereof, and ii) The member has obtained the prior approval of the Board of Directors. The prohibition against crossbreeding contained in this clause shall not apply to guide and working dogs. 12/08" The registered breeder states I am a registered breeder with Dogz NSW & mum is my 3rd generation pedigree Schnauzer & this is her only repeat of this mating. Dad is a chocolate Labrador and Mum is a Pedigreed " rare red coated" standard Schnauzer according to the breeder.*** Personally I dont get it. If you have a pedigree dog and are registered with a Canine Association why deliberately breed ( not just once but twice ) your dog with another breed and make $700 crossbred pups ? Edited August 20, 2011 by kazwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerzeit Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Report the advert to DogsNSW - take a screenshot of the advert, and note down the breeders contact details and let DogsNSW know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Yep good idea. I would report them also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 In our Code of Ethics (WA) that would be going against the code of Ethics. I thought so. Its also against the code of ethics of dogs NSW Code of Ethics:"A Member shall not knowingly permit any of that Member's pure bred dogs to be mated to a dog of a different breed, to a cross-bred dog, or to any unregistered dog of the same breed or to a dog not on the Main Register unless:- i) such mating is for the health, welfare and/or the development of a breed or an aspect thereof, and ii) The member has obtained the prior approval of the Board of Directors. The prohibition against crossbreeding contained in this clause shall not apply to guide and working dogs. 12/08" The registered breeder states I am a registered breeder with Dogz NSW & mum is my 3rd generation pedigree Schnauzer & this is her only repeat of this mating. Dad is a chocolate Labrador and Mum is a Pedigreed " rare red coated" standard Schnauzer according to the breeder.*** Personally I dont get it. If you have a pedigree dog and are registered with a Canine Association why deliberately breed ( not just once but twice ) your dog with another breed and make $700 crossbred pups ? If the schnaauzer is pedigreed but not registered she isnt breaking any rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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