New Puppy's Coming, 101 Questions

[GrumpySmurf]

Our family's first dog will be landing in Perth tomorrow. We have done a whole lot of reading and watching youtubes, but still have lots of questions. I will start with these;

1. To clicker train or not to? It seems there are 3 main schools of training (Traditional including punishment, positive enofrcement, and clicker). I realise there are crossover etc, but should we start with the clicker from day 1?

2. The breeder (whom I have researched as much as I could) stated: "has had his 1st vaccination his 2nd is due on 5th August. He has also had a Kill Parvo vaccination early this month so he can be taken out in public places and mix with other dogs when you receive him.". Would you feel safe to do so?

3. If the puppy learns to evacuate on artificial grass for the next few weeks, would there be a problem for him to learn to do so on real lawn later?

4. Does anyone know of good puppy school near South Perth area?

Edited July 21, 2011 by GrumpySmurf

[Pretty Miss Emma]

I do positive reinforcement training, and if you don't know how to do clicker training it is probably easier to start +ve reinforcement and then move to clicker when you know what you're doing (they're very similar, but I find using the clicker takes a lot more coordination for people who haven't done it before). Can't help you with a puppy school due to being 000's of kms away, but a good puppy school will take you through the basics of training technique, just make sure you're happy with their training philosophy before you pay for classes!!

Never heard of the "kill parvo" vacc, and when I googled it just then absolutely nothing came up. Maybe someone here knows about it and can give you an informed opinion. I wouldn't trust it at all. If it exists and really works that well, then why isn't every pup being sold getting it? I'd be playing it safe and keeping pup off the ground in areas that dogs frequent until such time as it has immunity - speak to your vet when you take him to the vet in the next couple of days for his post-purchase check as they may be able to help you with that one (plus I'm sure the info will be on his vacc card that the breeder will send with him and he vet will be able to decipher that). But I would certainly be carrying him around everywhere to meet as many people as possible for socialisation (Kenzie was carried in a bag with me for as long as I could carry her until I was happy she would be safe, and she's a BC).

Teach him to toilet on command and I would think that you would be able to transfer surfaces relatively easily. Does it have to be artificial grass all the time for the next few weeks? Is that an indoor puppy loo for when you are not home? I'm just thinking that if you can take him out on the lawn when you are home and he only has to use the other surface when you aren't home that may make for an easier transition.

These are all sort of just ideas, there are many people here who know mountains and will probably be able to give you much more succinct (?sp?!!) advice and have a great breadth of experience so will be able to provide you with information to help you weigh your options.

Enjoy your pup!

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Congrats on the impending arrival of your new puppy.

1. Clicker training - sure. But you don't need to use a clicker you can use a short word like "yes" and then give the dog a treat. It's great to teach your dog "shaping" from as young as possible - doesn't really matter what trick you shape, just as long as the dog learns to try new things in a training session, instead of just sitting there looking at you and waiting for a treat. Remember punishment can have unexpected fallout ie the dog doesn't know what you do want, so it makes its best guess and that might not be right. Much better to focus on what you do want and train that and limit the dog's opportunity to make mistakes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaping_(psychology)

and

http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/digital-dog-training-textbook

2. I wouldn't let my puppy socialise with dogs I didn't know were vaccinated until 2 weeks after the last booster shot. Parvo is not the only disease out there.

3. What PME said, have a potty word and use that when the dog goes to the toilet... in combination with number 1, it shouldn't be too hard to transfer the word and the behaviour to where ever you want the puppy to go. Just make sure you get the puppy there after it wakes up, after play, after dinner, 30 mins after dinner, every couple of hours, and any time you see the nose go down and sniffing or circling start - move really fast if you see that happening, it means you missed one of the previous opportunities.

4 - I live in SA, but I guess you could start with dogsWA clubs or your favourite vet and ask them to recommend.

http://www.dogswest.com/

No matter how much preparation and planning you do - something else will happen you didn't expect.

If you can't be with puppy all the time and you value the puppy and your household furniture intact it might be worth "crate training" as well.

[ChristineX]

If you are around South Perth, I like All Creatures Great and Small Vets on canning highway (used them for years). they do run puppy classes, but I was last there for puppies 10 years ago.

The last puppy class I saw there (last year) had a great dane, doberman, and small fluffies - so a nice spread of dogs.

Have fun with your pup!

[Nekhbet]

It seems there are 3 main schools of training (Traditional including punishment, positive enofrcement, and clicker). I realise there are crossover etc, but should we start with the clicker from day 1?

you always need to reinforce behaviours. Think of it logically, would you go to work for no money? Dogs learn better when you show them what you want them to do and reinforce the behaviour with a reward. Saying that I am never going to be against applying a punisher when required - eg your pup latches onto you so you growl NO and scruff it etc, especially when the behaviour needs to be extinguished quickly. All a clicker is is a sound that marks the exact behaviour you want then you give the dog a reward ... you have an inbuilt clicker it's called your voice. Just say 'yes' the provide reward.

There is always preferences to how people train, the trick is to do what works for your dog not try to fit the dog to a preconceived notion of how to train. As long as you always show the dog what the right behaviour is and reinforce it you cant go wrong even if you do use punishers.

Kill parvo vaccine is a dead virus not a live attenuated. I would take him to dogs that are well mannered and you know are healthy/vaccinated. I would not be taking any puppy to a dog beach or dog park no matter how well vaccinated. Be smart about it.

If you train on artificial grass and you find your dog is 'attached' to going on that simply start moving the artificial turf to where you want the dog to go later. Dogs can be retrained to do anything it just takes a little effort.

[Allerzeit]

Never heard of the "kill parvo" vacc, and when I googled it just then absolutely nothing came up.

The OP has used the incorrect term for it - it's commonly called a killed parvo vaccination (not kill parvo) - ie Parvac. It's an inactivated vaccine.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Allerzeit

[Pretty Miss Emma]

Never heard of the "kill parvo" vacc, and when I googled it just then absolutely nothing came up.

The OP has used the incorrect term for it - it's commonly called a killed parvo vaccination (not kill parvo) - ie Parvac. It's an inactivated vaccine.

Aha!!!! That makes a lot more sense!!

[GrumpySmurf]

Wow, fantastic responses, thanks!

We live 500m from All Creatures Great & Small, so it is good to hear good things about them! I assume they will be good for all general vet care as well?

The reason for artificial grass is that our fenced house is all paved. Outside the fence, we have a large lawn verge, but as that is public access, I am worried about the pup (Kahlua) being not 100% vaccinated. This verge / footpath area may see about 5 dogs walk past per day - should I let Kahlua out there (on leash) for toilet?

[**Super_Dogs**]

My mums neighbour got a puppy and had a similar problem being the pup could not access the grassed areas as you had to go through the pool area. So this mean the pup only had a paved area. They just moved in and planned to change this, but what they did in the meantime is made a box and brough some grass and layed in in the box. I suppose the same concept as a pot plant but with grass. This may be a good idea until you pup has had all its vacinations??

[luvsdogs]

Congratulations on your new pup. What breed, m/f? We expect plenty of pics.

Positive training all the way. As stated you can use "yes" instead of the clicker but make sure you charge the word 1st as you would with the clicker.

http://www.clickertraining.com/puppy

If you haven't discovered kikopup on youtube yet, there are some great videos there.

http://www.youtube.com/user/kikopup#p/u

[fuzzy82]

If you want a shaping savvy dog, it's a good idea to start with the clicker right away.

But I don't really see marker training as a different way of training at all. Even compulsion trainers use a marker when the dog gets it right. ALL it is, is a marker to tell the dog 'you got that right' without having to put the treat in the dogs mouth as he's doing the behaviour. This means you can mark, and then it doesn't matter if you fumble to get the treat out of your pocket, and you can reinforce behaviours at a distance.

I don't see how you could train without using a marker, it would just be so hard.

Shaping on the other hand, that's a training method of itself. It's a fun one too, and it provides more mental stimulation than just forcing the dog into a sit and holding it there (for example). It's a good thing to know if you're getting a high drive/high energy dog that needs a lot of stimulation. If he gets bored, just shape a new trick.

[ChristineX]

Yup, in general, I like the quality of their general vet service too. You can talk to them about concerns you have (any time I have medicine concerned issues, they will go off and check stuff out andcome back and talk to me about it), they don't push their point of view, and will (usually) discuss all options before suggesting a course of action.

Particularly, if you can get Steve, toby or sam, they are really terrific (at least, I think so).

They are also open 7 days a week, which works out well for my guys.

What sort of pup are you getting?

ChristineX

[GrumpySmurf]

Oh so tired! Out in the cold and rain 8 times to try toilet training, with 1 big pooh outside only. But 3 small pee inside

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

dogs pick up bugs from sniffing other dog's poo. So if five dogs are walking or pooping on the grass on the verge - I'd consider avoiding it.

I have been known to stay outside for 30 minutes or more with the dog out in the rain, until the dog learns it is not getting back inside until I've seen a 1 or 2 or both from it.

On wednesday night she squeezed out the most pathetic tiny poo on command because she knew that if she didn't we were not going over to that fun agility class over there until she had.

OMG she just FARTED. I knew she ate something naughty tonight. Sigh.

[ChristineX]

Dear GrumpySmurf,

hang in there, it is worth it.

From the person who just got back from Balcatta Vet Hospital because someone overhumped a cushion! So much for my quiet friday night!!

ChristineX

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

how can a dog cushion hump their way to a vet visit? Zipper injury?

[ChristineX]

His penis got stuck, he could not get it back in and by the time I noticed something was wrong it was inflamed, dry and mostly dark blue/purple. And it looked as though the entire contents of the abdomen were trying to get out along with the penis.

this morning that whole central abdominal area is clearly bruised, so he did do some damage, and I will be having a chat with our normal vets just to make sure he is okay.

Apparently, we are supposed to have so many vet visits a year, and he is down on his quota.

Good thing I love him.

[GrumpySmurf]

OMG, sounds nasty!

On a lighter note, Kahlua has done 2 number 1's and 2 number 2's in 4 times of going outside today. Unfortunately, he now decides crate is no longer his favourite place.

I reckon I can manage his toilet to be between the paving, artificial grass and the garden bed - so no great rush to go outside. I do hope on finding a friend with a good dog for him to meet with though. He is good so far with new kids and adults. Nipping a bit, but I think we can sort that out.

[joelle]

All great advice:) I would recommend Carolyn Reads 'train a pup time'. She is in forrestfield but is well worth 20 min travel