Little Scared To Ask This, But...

[Dju]

Apart from a few slight issues with his behavior while on walks, Hugo is a pretty well-adjusted dog. What we are having a problem with at the moment, which seems to have gotten progressively worse the longer we leave it, is his fenceline barking. Apart from calling out the window for him to stop or sit or do some trick (which he sometimes can't hear over his barking--or choses not to rather, because barking at the workers across the road or the cat that keeps bloody COMING INTO OUR YARD is sooo much more exciting than me), there's nothing I can really do to stop his barking. If I leave the house to be with him or to try and quickly punish him in the act, it stops immediately, so it's not like I can supervise him while I'm outside. I can't be outside with him all the time, he needs some independance.

He doesn't bark all the time when he's outside. I'd classify it as maybe 5% of his time spent outside. The problem is that when the stimulus is there and it won't leave, he won't stop the barking until it does. Such as the cat. Oh he can stand in front of that beloved old cat and bark his happy little lungs out for as long as the cat doesn't move, which, considering her old age, is unlikely to happen any time soon (it's a wonder she can scale the bloody fence, the old thing is starting to smell mouldy and there can't be much structural integrity in her little body).

But I'm tired of yelling out the window. On the chance he does hear me and I tell him sternly to cut it out and be a good boy, he'll stop, but less than a minute later, if the stimulus is still there, he'll go and bark at it again. For instance right now, he's silently sitting outside chewing his dinosaur bone. No stimulus, no reason to go batshit crazy. Is there anything I can do so as to not have to resort to an e-collar? I considered hiring a personal trainer, but then we come to the problem where he won't bark if there's someone outside with him, so I don't really see what they'll be able to do other than yelling through the window. I'm getting really frustrated here, don't know what to do to stop the random barking. Help!

[jass.91]

I was actually looking up the K9 website yesturday and stumbled across this: http://www.k9pro.com.au/products/PetSafe-Outdoor-Bark-Deterent-PBC00%252d11216.html

Sounds to me like a better way to go about it then getting one of those spray collars or even Static Pulse collar.

**I am no expert** but I think it will benefit your dog much more as you said he is only barking a minimal amount of time a day (5%)

Although to me- with the cat, it kind of sounds like Hugo's having territorial issues. But you also mentioned it happens with the workers across the road too? Even then I suppose he could feel threatened by them.

Sorry to not be much of a bigger help. Hope it gets better.

[stonecutter]

Would Look At That or Click to Calm help?

We have a similar situation and I will be looking at those as options - look at the arousing item, then look back at me without barking, then treat.

[Dju]

I was thinking about a sonic collar but apparently they have such a high return rate because they just don't work Same with citronella.

And yeah, he doesn't like the cat, it's a nuisance. He's had dogs in the yard before and he's okay with them and plays fine, but just that damn cat, he can't seem to stand it. The breeder explained to me when he was young that Vallhunds are very talkative and that usually the barking is him wanting people to come over and play with him. In theory, that could be plausible, since when people stick their hands over the fence to pat him, he's fine with it, just when they're out of reach he goes nuts!

I hope it gets better too, thanks

[Dju]

Would Look At That or Click to Calm help?

We have a similar situation and I will be looking at those as options - look at the arousing item, then look back at me without barking, then treat.

Are those books? I've been trying clicker training during his walks for when he sees exciting stimulus but it doesn't seem to be working to divert his attention. You could be holding a fried chicken on a stick out for him and he'll still find other dogs waaaaay more interesting and pull to get to them. I don't know how it would help when he wouldn't be barking when I'm outside with him.

[Jumabaar]

Would Look At That or Click to Calm help?

We have a similar situation and I will be looking at those as options - look at the arousing item, then look back at me without barking, then treat.

Are those books? I've been trying clicker training during his walks for when he sees exciting stimulus but it doesn't seem to be working to divert his attention. You could be holding a fried chicken on a stick out for him and he'll still find other dogs waaaaay more interesting and pull to get to them. I don't know how it would help when he wouldn't be barking when I'm outside with him.

If he is still finding the dogs waaaaaay more interesting you are too close. You need to start these things at home so he has a strong reward history before you add distractions- then only go as close to the distraction as you can while he is still chosing to respond to your cue. The more you practice the closer you get.

[stonecutter]

Would Look At That or Click to Calm help?

We have a similar situation and I will be looking at those as options - look at the arousing item, then look back at me without barking, then treat.

Are those books? I've been trying clicker training during his walks for when he sees exciting stimulus but it doesn't seem to be working to divert his attention. You could be holding a fried chicken on a stick out for him and he'll still find other dogs waaaaay more interesting and pull to get to them. I don't know how it would help when he wouldn't be barking when I'm outside with him.

LAT comes from the book Control Unleashed but this website sums it up

http://clickerleash.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/look-at-that-a-counterintuitive-approach-to-dealing-with-reactive-dogs/

I've even been using LAT at obedience training when other dogs start barking - even if not at Ziva, it's like she wants to put in her 2 cents!

Click To Calm is a book by Karen Pryor I think

I tried recalling Ziva - she would come, get the treat and then run off again - even if she saw I had more treats!

[Dju]

Would Look At That or Click to Calm help?

We have a similar situation and I will be looking at those as options - look at the arousing item, then look back at me without barking, then treat.

Are those books? I've been trying clicker training during his walks for when he sees exciting stimulus but it doesn't seem to be working to divert his attention. You could be holding a fried chicken on a stick out for him and he'll still find other dogs waaaaay more interesting and pull to get to them. I don't know how it would help when he wouldn't be barking when I'm outside with him.

LAT comes from the book Control Unleashed but this website sums it up

http://clickerleash.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/look-at-that-a-counterintuitive-approach-to-dealing-with-reactive-dogs/

I've even been using LAT at obedience training when other dogs start barking - even if not at Ziva, it's like she wants to put in her 2 cents!

Click To Calm is a book by Karen Pryor I think

I tried recalling Ziva - she would come, get the treat and then run off again - even if she saw I had more treats!

So has it been helping you a lot?

[stonecutter]

Definitely though I need to have time to consistently apply it at home where the barking is worst (I'm on the last stretch of my phd thesis so I'm mostly just ignoring the crazy barking while I frantically write)

[corvus]

I wouldn't use one on Erik. Not no way, not no how. It's just not worth it IMO. I'm not entirely sure what he would do. Get collarsmart is almost a certainty. He is always barking at something, and that is his job as a watchdog. I don't want to suppress it, and a collar isn't going to differentiate between a good watchdog bark and an overly sensitive watchdog bark.

One of the things I did with Erik was teach him to come back to his bed and lie down after his first volley of barking. That worked surprisingly well, actually. It was a touch more complicated than that, but Erik is a touch more complicated than most dogs. So the sequence goes like this: BARKBARKBARKBARKBARK... (he takes a breath).. "Erik! Thank you."... (he comes looking for his treat)... "Are you lying down?"... (he lies on his bed and gets his treat). And of course he gets a few more treats to encourage him to stay put on the bed. It helps if you have a mat or bed or crate he should return to. "Thank you" becomes the cue to quit barking and go and lie down. The more you reward it the more reliable it becomes and the less you have to cue it at all.

ETA Someone on the CU_Dogs list I think it was conditioned their dog out of fence fighting with the neighbour's dogs by doing the relaxation protocol and just gradually moving it closer and closer to the problem. Wait, I don't know if they got all the way. They were up to moving the RP from the verandah down to the yard. Dogs barking like crazy on the other side fo the fence, but their dog was able to work through the RP in spite of it. There are always options. It just depends how methodical you can be and how much time you want to put in.

Edited July 20, 2011 by corvus

[Chezy]

I had a citro and it worked well, but recetly she has started barking at cats down back paddock . I got it out and it is not working[bugger] like the tree hang thing as I imagine you could place it so that if they bark at back fence ,they would be stopped and possibly not at front , hmmmm

I have been doing the leave then to bed thing , hoping that will work eventually , must add rewards though i think [put some in handy place ]

Edited July 20, 2011 by Chezy & Chopper

[Dju]

Ah yeah, I remember getting the recommendation from Corvus about that book now It must be fantastic, I'll have to check it out!

Corvus, the thing you're doing with Erik sounds a bit complicated.. Especially since I can't be in the yard with Hugo or he'll be focused on me and not the stimulus on the other side of the fence. So I'd call that through the window and go to the door to give him his treat or something? Wait, won't it encourage him to bark if he knows he'll get a treat when he stops barking? If that makes sense?

[corvus]

Corvus, the thing you're doing with Erik sounds a bit complicated.. Especially since I can't be in the yard with Hugo or he'll be focused on me and not the stimulus on the other side of the fence.

If he's that easily distracted from the stimulus it should be a cinch!

So I'd call that through the window and go to the door to give him his treat or something? Wait, won't it encourage him to bark if he knows he'll get a treat when he stops barking? If that makes sense?

It might, but only if you don't manage the lying-down-quietly bit very well. There's a prerequisite to this, and that is Hugo needs a strong enough reward history for coming to you when you call him that he will do it even when there's something to bark at. It sounded like you already had that. So the rest of it is timing and behaviour chains.

1. When he barks, let him do a few barks and then interrupt it by calling him. Try to be consistent about when you interrupt so it's predictable. Add an additional cue here, like "thank you" that will eventually mean you don't need to call him.

2. When he arrives, either you can reward him or you can tell him to go to his bed/crate/mat and reward him when he's there instead. Or both.

3. Reward him for staying in the spot you put him. Reward often enough that he doesn't get bored and leave. Look, now staying in his spot is more interesting than the cat. Woot!

4. Taper the reward frequency off. Erik usually falls asleep while he's waiting for his next treat once it gets to a few minutes between treats.

The important elements are as always to be consistent and time it so it's clear to him that when you say "thank you" that's the cue to run to his spot and lie down in it.

Of course, this is a little more difficult if you want him to stay outside and you to stay inside.

[Nekhbet]

get an innotek static bark collar for small dogs, they work on a warning and level system. The dog will get a tiny stim and only if it keeps barking will the level go up one, then another, then another. It's a successive one that is fair on the dog and teaches it quality over quantity barking. You can always up the start level if the lowest does nothing.

[jass.91]

get an innotek static bark collar for small dogs, they work on a warning and level system. The dog will get a tiny stim and only if it keeps barking will the level go up one, then another, then another. It's a successive one that is fair on the dog and teaches it quality over quantity barking. You can always up the start level if the lowest does nothing.

That sounds really good actually

[Nekhbet]

if you're going to do things do them properly. I love Innotek products they are well designed for the average dog owner and easy to use as well as taking the stress out of training fairly. I tell people to order them straight from Innotek. I have used them on my Malinois because as a 6 month old she decided that barking was something we did for almost every hour of the day. She learned fairly and the lesson stuck. She still barks, very loudly, but she wont just keep going if there is no reason.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

My mum's neighbours have put citronella collars on their dogs and they've gone from bark a lot to looking very very sad and barking just occasionally.

Susan Garrett's dog just barked continously until the citronella was all used up, and then barked when he wanted but now he bolts if anyone gets out an asthma puffer - so those things can have fallout.

I tend to follow Corvus's technique to encourage my dog to be quiet. She had decided at one point if she barks lots she gets attention and treats. And eventually that got her some crate time and treats. Not exactly what she was looking for. So she's quit that one.

Anyway the distract and give dog something else to do works way better on my dog than my neighbour's technique of scolding and yelling at his dog - which barks a lot more than mine at everything and nothing.

PS I'd probably try training the cat to stay out at the same time. Ie make that sunny patch she's in all wet and cold. Or prone to attract handfulls of falling pegs.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[Dju]

My mum's neighbours have put citronella collars on their dogs and they've gone from bark a lot to looking very very sad and barking just occasionally.

Susan Garrett's dog just barked continously until the citronella was all used up, and then barked when he wanted but now he bolts if anyone gets out an asthma puffer - so those things can have fallout.

I tend to follow Corvus's technique to encourage my dog to be quiet. She had decided at one point if she barks lots she gets attention and treats. And eventually that got her some crate time and treats. Not exactly what she was looking for. So she's quit that one.

Anyway the distract and give dog something else to do works way better on my dog than my neighbour's technique of scolding and yelling at his dog - which barks a lot more than mine at everything and nothing.

PS I'd probably try training the cat to stay out at the same time. Ie make that sunny patch she's in all wet and cold. Or prone to attract handfulls of falling pegs.

It sounds funny but I actually never thought about that.

This is something I've always wondered though, with no-bark collars, would the lesson only be applied and only work when the dog is wearing the collar? Or is it something that they learn and you can take the collar off after a week or so and the lesson will stick?

[Nekhbet]

you gradually wean them down from the collars just like you should with citronella anyway. At least the static collars dont coat the animals face and mucus membranes constantly.

The trick with them is 1) to always provide quality alternative activities and exercise for the dog wearing the bark collar. The dog has to have the option to redirect it's attention and energy to something else less noisy. You cannot expect a dog to simply stop barking because of the collar and then just sit there like an ornament with no enrichment.

2) Use a collar right for the dog. Like I said the innotek ones allow the dog to bark but within reason. As you notice your dogs barking decreasing you can leave the collar on but turn the unit off. Gradually you wean the dog off the whole unit and back to a normal collar. Always good to have as well in case they 'forget'

[The Spotted Devil]

I'm not a fan of citronella collars - if the dog does find it aversive it's not much use to have the aversive odour lingering for minutes after the dog has ceased the behaviour.