alli78 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Hi, we are brining a new puppy home soon and have been reading alot of the posts in the puppy forums. Im just wondering if someone can explain to me what crates are actually for as Im a little confused as to whether its to teach puppy to sleep,or toilet train or if we would even need to bother with it... Last time I had a puppy I had never heard of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 My two cents worth :D : A den is a naturally instinctive environment for dogs. Crates provide a den-like environment for dogs/puppies to sleep in. You can achieve a den-like environment by covering the crate with blankets or a cover etc. It's great for puppy owners as they can crate train so that their puppy is safe when left alone in the house; not only is the puppy safe, but so is the house & all its contents...bored little puppies on the loose are a recipe for disaster; they can create all manner of disasters both to the house and to themselves. In the past we have found even shutting puppies in a laundry or bathroom to be problematic. Once we came home to a scratched and chewed door frame ; crating a puppy prevents this destructive behaviour and keeps them safe from hurting themselves. Some puppy owners take off the pup's collar, but others don't. I am on the 'collar-off' side of the fence so that the puppy can't choke itself accidentally by catching the collar on the crate. When crates are introduced to the dog as their special place, they can retreat to the quiet of it when they require. It is also fabulous for toilet training as dogs don't like to evacuate in their den. Part of their natural den instinct is to not evacuate in spaces where they sleep or eat. They will usually hold on as long as possible. If you buy a big adult sized crate for a puppy, you can block off one end to encourage the puppy to hold on and not use the other end as a toilet. It is important to note that a crate is not to be used as a place of punishment...it is instead a physically safe and emotionally positive environment for the dog so that it willingly uses the crate. One should train a dog to associate only positive emotions with a crate. You don't buy a crate, shove the dog in and hope for the best. I'm sure other DOLers will add more comprehensive answers and correct my input where necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Hey Ali, K9Pro have a great article on why to Crate Train go here and have a look 10 Reason to Crate Train a Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minxy Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Quite a few reasons, and I probably haven't remembered them all but I'll try: Helping with toilet training Providing them with a safe, quiet place for them to get peace and quiet away from the rest of the family when they need a break Confinement when they have an injury or for example they've been desexed and you need to keep them quiet Confining them when you can not be around to supervise them, for their safety as well as to protect your belongings Teaches them routine Gets them used to a crate in case they ever need to travel Etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mish13 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 All of the above and if you want to show your dog they need to be crate trained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alli78 Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Do people leave the pup in the crate for long periods of time, ie while at work?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alli78 Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 I guess my other question would be is it worth crate training a puppy that is is a giant breed, he will out grow crates very quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minxy Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I guess my other question would be is it worth crate training a puppy that is is a giant breed, he will out grow crates very quickly What most people do is buy a crate that will fit the pup when it's fully grown and then block off any excess space with something like an esky for example. The reason you do this is that if the dog has too much extra space they might toilet in the crate, as there is still enough room for them to lie away from it. So by blocking the crate off, you reduce the likelihood that the pup will toilet in the crate since they won't want to be surrounded by it. That way you can increase how much space the dog has as it grows. I bought the 48" crate for my boy before I got him so that it would last forever. Also, this site is great for crates http://www.topbuy.com.au/tbcart/product/Carries-and-Houses-c161.htm Buying a crate online can be up to 4 times cheaper than in a pet store! Another bit of advice, go for a metal crate not a soft at least while your pup is young as he will most likely chew a soft crate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warval dobe Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Buy a crate that your dog will grow into. Dogs adapt better than we give them credit. I was against crate traing but trust me it is the BEST thing you can ever do for yourself and more importantly your dog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mish13 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I guess my other question would be is it worth crate training a puppy that is is a giant breed, he will out grow crates very quickly I have only seen one male at a show that was to big for his crate so he was put into a pen. Just buy the biggest crate as the others suggested or build an outside pen that he/she can be put in when you cant be there to supervise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Do people leave the pup in the crate for long periods of time, ie while at work?? No. The point of the exercise is to use the pup's natural dislike of toileting in it's own bed to help with the house training. If you leave the pup in there for longer than it can physically "hold on" it WILL toilet in the crate. Not only is this just plain cruel, it's also breaking down the pup's natural instincts to be clean and counter productive to the purpose of it all. I would set up a play pen inside for a smaller pup or a larger area such as a kennel and run outside for a larger pup and/or in nice weather, fenced off from the whole garden (assuming it's more than a courtyard!) so you can confine the pup somewhere you know it will be safe and not chewing something it shouldn't be and perhaps getting into something poisonous. The playpen/fenced off area has a bed and toys in it but gives the pup room to move away from it's bed to toilet as it's instincts want it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wadz Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I believe its all a personal choice. We never crate trained our silkys. However, we also show, so they adapted to being in a crate during traveling and shows. We are also getting a Newfie in a few weeks. I suggest you ask your breeder whether they recommend crate training, and I'm sure they will point you in the right direction. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alli78 Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Thanks everyone for the advice, we are waiting on a Newf puppy and the whole crate training thing is a new concept to me, in the past I have never had any issues with toilet training puppies etc, so was just curious as to what the benefits of it are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Do people leave the pup in the crate for long periods of time, ie while at work?? No. The point of the exercise is to use the pup's natural dislike of toileting in it's own bed to help with the house training. If you leave the pup in there for longer than it can physically "hold on" it WILL toilet in the crate. Not only is this just plain cruel, it's also breaking down the pup's natural instincts to be clean and counter productive to the purpose of it all. I would set up a play pen inside for a smaller pup or a larger area such as a kennel and run outside for a larger pup and/or in nice weather, fenced off from the whole garden (assuming it's more than a courtyard!) so you can confine the pup somewhere you know it will be safe and not chewing something it shouldn't be and perhaps getting into something poisonous. The playpen/fenced off area has a bed and toys in it but gives the pup room to move away from it's bed to toilet as it's instincts want it to. Actually I have heard it is common in the USA to leave dogs in crates all day (not that I agree with this). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alli78 Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 As I said this is a new concept to me, in the past when I have had pups they had a bed on the floor to sleep on, were regularly taken out side to toilet and were in a safe room if left unattended, Im confused as to whether all this talk of crate training means we did it wrong previously??? And if I chose not to crate train could I change my mind down the track??? Or if I crate trained and wasnt happy with this will the dog become too dependant on the crate??? Aaarrrggghhh so many questions!!!!! And as someone mentioned earlier I will be asking the breeders thoughts on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I have had several pups over the years, some were crate trained, some weren't. And no you aren't doing anything wrong by not using a crate. Your other dogs turned out ok didn't they? I just found everything was that bit easier with a crate. Adult dogs can be crate trained. Lot's of people put the crate away once the pup is quite trustworthy in the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 You don't need to crate train if you don't want to It makes life a bit easier if you intend on competing though. Crates are very useful but plenty of people do fine without them. You can crate train any age dog, in some cases it is actually easier to crate train an older, calmer dog. Depending on how you use the crate, the dog may or may not become dependent on it. If you're worried about that then you could also train them to lie on their bed or on a mat. My dog has both a dog bed and a crate. We use the crate for travelling, training, competitions etc She also goes into the crate if we need her out of the way or if we have guests over. She sleeps and rests on her dog bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suziwong66 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 As I said this is a new concept to me, in the past when I have had pups they had a bed on the floor to sleep on, were regularly taken out side to toilet and were in a safe room if left unattended, Im confused as to whether all this talk of crate training means we did it wrong previously??? And if I chose not to crate train could I change my mind down the track??? Or if I crate trained and wasnt happy with this will the dog become too dependant on the crate??? Aaarrrggghhh so many questions!!!!! And as someone mentioned earlier I will be asking the breeders thoughts on this NO you didn't do it wrong previously...i didn't crate either of my last two boys but we did pay for it with our lab Casper; he made a mess of the door frame in the bathroom when locked in there when i had to pop out. This time with another lab coming in 3 weeks we will be crating; i don't want the destruction again. No it won't be a problem if you change your mind down the track; nothing is set in stone and dogs are pretty flexible imo. You can still have a designated bed in the lounge etc and crate too; there are lots of variations that can work for you. With Wilbur we'll be crating him at night (at first in our bedroom and then later when he's settled, he'll be in the kitchen) and when we're out during the day as he'll be inside the first few months. He will also have a bed in the lounge room but only allowed to sleep there in the evenings when we're all watching tv. It's not mandatory to crate your dog; you do what suits you. Many don't. as i said previously i haven't in the past, but will be doing this time round. hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 i have never used a crate - and probably wouldn't ..simply cos i am used to doing things 'the old way' None of my pups have ever made more than one or two messes inside - none have been chewers... if you think it will be a useful thing - then learn how to - and do it . if you are happy to do things as you have done before- then that's fine too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alli78 Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 my last puppy had a bed in my room, I moved it to the living area during the day and when I took it to the bedroom at night he knew it meant sleep time. We did frequent toilet trips outside and when I was working he was in the laundry with a radio on, his favourite toy, water and bed, I only work 5 hour days so would spend my lunch break home with him, toileting etc... I would leave treats for him to find in the laundry, making it a happy place for him to go which all seems to me very similar to the crating method...The only difference is this time I have children, ie more left around for him to chew and a generally boisterous household... I guess my plan to start with will be to see how what I have done in the past works, If the kids value their belongings at all they WILL pick up after themselves (hmmm may get them housetrained in the process if Im lucky!!!) and have a place that the dog is happy too go/retreat and make the kids aware that if he goes there it means he wants a break and to leave him be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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