Staffordshire Bull Terriers

[Clyde]

I'm sorry if this offends, and I'm sure your dog is a fantastic dog in terms of his personality and behaviour - but I have yet to see a fantastic blue male in terms of the breed standard.

Could you post a photo of him? Be warned , only post the photo if you are happy for him to be critiqued by experienced breeders.

I have the most gorgeous Stafford in the world and think the world would be a better place if there were more like her :D but I know she's not a good example of the breed so she's desexed. She's still the best dog ever. :cool:

Good luck and welcome to the forum!!

[jacqui835]

Ugh and people on these threads wonder why the general public think poorly of the purebred community... Sounds like this guy is trying very hard to do the right thing and came looking for help and advice. That certainly wasn't what he got, and now he's going to go to his vet who will probably tell him the best idea is to breed his staffy to a kelpie for hybrid vigour! You guys are your own worst enemies.

And he GOT help and advice

1) when breeding colour is irrelevant, concentrate on the important stuff. I think everyone who breeds dogs for the right reasons would accept this as a good answer

2) The question about in who's opinion is his male "fantastic" is quite valid, everyone thinks their own dog is fantastic and so they should - and he answered it saying someone with good credentials believes it to be so, which is great

3) WHERE have you looked for good breeders is also a valid question since he claimed it was difficult to find good breeders in NSW (which is not true). Haven't got an answer for that one yet

4) He was advised to join a breed club, which is excellant advice

5)He was advised to find a mentor, which is excellant advice

6) He was advised to look in to one of the most common problems with the colour of the dog he already owns.

Sorry Jacqui I must've missed it - what advice did YOU contribute?

My advice was directed at you guys rather than him - I'm not a breeder nor have I ever owned a staffy so I would be of little help to the OP in that regard. What I do know though is that yet another person who has come to these forums looking for help from the purebred community - who from the looks of it was open to advice and wanted to learn, has left with a bad opinion of you guys.

This community can cry all day about how they have so little support in society, but until you adopt a more receptive and warm approach to new comers, you have no-one but yourselves to blame.

[TessiesTracey]

Like & like to Sandra & Clyde.

[jacqui835]

Like & like to Sandra & Clyde.

So you guys think this was a job well done and a desirable outcome?

[Sandra777]

So you guys think this was a job well done and a desirable outcome?

So - where is YOUR advice. What advice do YOU think we should have supplied?

Not being a breeder is no excuse, this person isn't either - what sort of advice would YOU be looking for if you were considering it?

The advice offered is good advice - find out about the breed, find someone to mentor you and worry about the important stuff such as health temperament and conformation instead of the unimportant stuff such as colour.

Obviously this wasn't the advice the OP wanted, but how is that OUR fault?

[TessiesTracey]

Like & like to Sandra & Clyde.

So you guys think this was a job well done and a desirable outcome?

Not sure why you're quoting me.. but there we go...

I think that the advice that HAS been given is sound, don't have any problems with it.

I'm not a breeder myself either, but I do own STAFFORDS, and I DO know enough about them and their 'world' to know that they're on their way to hell in a handcart, so if someone is given the advice to really really scrutinise the reasons behind wanting to breed, even if it's put a bit bluntly (which I don't think in this case it was blunt at all) then so be it.

[Dju]

Sandra, from what I see as an objective outsider, it's really how the information was put across. In some of the replies, I couldn't see in any way which to read them other than in a scathing tone ("get yourself sorted and THENNN maybe in a quarter of a century you'll be ready to breed!" ). Just my opinion .

[Sandra777]

Sandra, from what I see as an objective outsider, it's really how the information was put across. In some of the replies, I couldn't see in any way which to read them other than in a scathing tone ("get yourself sorted and THENNN maybe in a quarter of a century you'll be ready to breed!" ). Just my opinion .

Uh - suggest you re-read that - what I actually said was that in 25 years time they would maybe be in a position to worry about the COLOUR OF THE DOG.

And if you read the original post they have owned Staffords for 25 years which is the only reason I chucked that figure in - NEVER would actually be a better time to worry about the colour of the dog.

[jacqui835]

So you guys think this was a job well done and a desirable outcome?

So - where is YOUR advice. What advice do YOU think we should have supplied?

Not being a breeder is no excuse, this person isn't either - what sort of advice would YOU be looking for if you were considering it?

The advice offered is good advice - find out about the breed, find someone to mentor you and worry about the important stuff such as health temperament and conformation instead of the unimportant stuff such as colour.

Obviously this wasn't the advice the OP wanted, but how is that OUR fault?

It's not about the advice itself, it's about the tone and delivery. If you want to educate people and bring them around to your way of thinking - and subsequently grow your community, well a kind word or two wouldn't go astray. Where was the, "oh good on you for coming here first and not just breeding your dog to the first female you found like so many do?" Instead it was very negative and the thread reads with an uncomfortable verging on aggressive and dissmissive tone.

Try putting yourself in the other person's shoes. Yeah he didn't know, but he came here for help and now he wants nothing to do with this community, like so many others. You might say, well we don't need them, but right now you can't watch a show about dogs, speak to the general public etc and hear anything positive about your community, and I would have thought that at least some of you wanted to try and change that. My advice? You're going about it the wrong way.

[Dju]

Sandra, from what I see as an objective outsider, it's really how the information was put across. In some of the replies, I couldn't see in any way which to read them other than in a scathing tone ("get yourself sorted and THENNN maybe in a quarter of a century you'll be ready to breed!" ). Just my opinion .

Uh - suggest you re-read that - what I actually said was that in 25 years time they would maybe be in a position to worry about the COLOUR OF THE DOG.

And if you read the original post they have owned Staffords for 25 years which is the only reason I chucked that figure in - NEVER would actually be a better time to worry about the colour of the dog.

No, I know what you said, it's just, that's sort of how it came across. Harshly. But as the OP said, he was worried about certain color to color breedings (idk, like how a person who owns a merle Aus Shepherd might ask what colors it is compatible with, just for future reference). I don'think he was asking that because he intended to rush off the next day and pick up a certain-colored Staffy from a BYB breeder or something. Again, just my opinion.

[Sandra777]

So you guys think this was a job well done and a desirable outcome?

So - where is YOUR advice. What advice do YOU think we should have supplied?

Not being a breeder is no excuse, this person isn't either - what sort of advice would YOU be looking for if you were considering it?

The advice offered is good advice - find out about the breed, find someone to mentor you and worry about the important stuff such as health temperament and conformation instead of the unimportant stuff such as colour.

Obviously this wasn't the advice the OP wanted, but how is that OUR fault?

It's not about the advice itself, it's about the tone and delivery. If you want to educate people and bring them around to your way of thinking - and subsequently grow your community, well a kind word or two wouldn't go astray. Where was the, "oh good on you for coming here first and not just breeding your dog to the first female you found like so many do?" Instead it was very negative and the thread reads with an uncomfortable verging on aggressive and dissmissive tone.

Try putting yourself in the other person's shoes. Yeah he didn't know, but he came here for help and now he wants nothing to do with this community, like so many others. You might say, well we don't need them, but right now you can't watch a show about dogs, speak to the general public etc and hear anything positive about your community, and I would have thought that at least some of you wanted to try and change that. My advice? You're going about it the wrong way.

Well if that's the way you read what was written I suggest you go back and read it with an open mind rather than with the opinion that we're all a bunch of nasty bastards which is what you obviously believe.

[WreckitWhippet]

What I would really have liked to have said, is that blue Staffords are a dime a dozen, they cannot and do not conform to the breed standard and anyone who is considering breeding them, is starting behind the rest of the field ( a long long way behind )

The best advice I have for the OP is to desex the blue dog and go in search of a quality bitch, that is not a dilute. If they really want to contribute to the future of the breed, rather than plunder and destroy, then they would be welcomed with open arms.

[Rebanne]

So you guys think this was a job well done and a desirable outcome?

So - where is YOUR advice. What advice do YOU think we should have supplied?

Not being a breeder is no excuse, this person isn't either - what sort of advice would YOU be looking for if you were considering it?

The advice offered is good advice - find out about the breed, find someone to mentor you and worry about the important stuff such as health temperament and conformation instead of the unimportant stuff such as colour.

Obviously this wasn't the advice the OP wanted, but how is that OUR fault?

It's not about the advice itself, it's about the tone and delivery. If you want to educate people and bring them around to your way of thinking - and subsequently grow your community, well a kind word or two wouldn't go astray. Where was the, "oh good on you for coming here first and not just breeding your dog to the first female you found like so many do?"

that's been done before and then people like yourself still found fault with it.

The answers were great and if the OP has a problem with them then they are not ready to breed at all. Breeding is not for the faint hearted. At least it's not if you do it properly.

[jacqui835]

So you guys think this was a job well done and a desirable outcome?

So - where is YOUR advice. What advice do YOU think we should have supplied?

Not being a breeder is no excuse, this person isn't either - what sort of advice would YOU be looking for if you were considering it?

The advice offered is good advice - find out about the breed, find someone to mentor you and worry about the important stuff such as health temperament and conformation instead of the unimportant stuff such as colour.

Obviously this wasn't the advice the OP wanted, but how is that OUR fault?

It's not about the advice itself, it's about the tone and delivery. If you want to educate people and bring them around to your way of thinking - and subsequently grow your community, well a kind word or two wouldn't go astray. Where was the, "oh good on you for coming here first and not just breeding your dog to the first female you found like so many do?" Instead it was very negative and the thread reads with an uncomfortable verging on aggressive and dissmissive tone.

Try putting yourself in the other person's shoes. Yeah he didn't know, but he came here for help and now he wants nothing to do with this community, like so many others. You might say, well we don't need them, but right now you can't watch a show about dogs, speak to the general public etc and hear anything positive about your community, and I would have thought that at least some of you wanted to try and change that. My advice? You're going about it the wrong way.

Well if that's the way you read what was written I suggest you go back and read it with an open mind rather than with the opinion that we're all a bunch of nasty bastards which is what you obviously believe.

Sigh. You're not nasty, you're just very protective and defensive when it comes to dogs and it upsets me as a dog lover and supporter of the purebred community when I feel that people are being turned away when we so desperately need more supporters. Dju said it much more eloquently than I did.

[jacqui835]

So you guys think this was a job well done and a desirable outcome?

So - where is YOUR advice. What advice do YOU think we should have supplied?

Not being a breeder is no excuse, this person isn't either - what sort of advice would YOU be looking for if you were considering it?

The advice offered is good advice - find out about the breed, find someone to mentor you and worry about the important stuff such as health temperament and conformation instead of the unimportant stuff such as colour.

Obviously this wasn't the advice the OP wanted, but how is that OUR fault?

It's not about the advice itself, it's about the tone and delivery. If you want to educate people and bring them around to your way of thinking - and subsequently grow your community, well a kind word or two wouldn't go astray. Where was the, "oh good on you for coming here first and not just breeding your dog to the first female you found like so many do?"

that's been done before and then people like yourself still found fault with it.

The answers were great and if the OP has a problem with them then they are not ready to breed at all. Breeding is not for the faint hearted. At least it's not if you do it properly.

People like myself? What group of people do I belong to exactly? I haven't played any part in one of these threads before, I only piped up here because it annoyed me that the guy was continually thanking everyone for their advice and still receiving crappy treatment, and has now left with a bad taste in his mouth.

[SnoPaws]

This question is probably more for the breeders section but unfortunately being new to dogs online I cannot participate in this forum at present.

My question is a new breeder of pure bred Staffies I have a few questions I would like answers to before fully setting up, I have had staffies for the past 25 years but not been into breeding. Firstly I would like it known that I am in the breeding for the betterment of the breed and not the finacial gain as I see alot of people are into....obviously, particulary the blue breeders.

I have a fantastic blue male because I love the colour and would like to know for sure what colour bitches are best to breed from to strengthen colour, pigmentation etc. I have heard that you shouldnt breed blue with blue as it dilutes, but have also heard the same about breeding with blacks. Does anyone have a definitive answer to this question, as I very much so want to get it right. I do understand there are many factors which come into play with clours that you get but is there a general rule of thumb????

Thanks in advance.

Are you sure you have a "fantastic" male? Can you assess your dog honestly and objectively, with an experienced eye, pit him against the breed standard and say hand on heart that you have a fantastic male specimen of the breed, worthy of being shown, worthy of being bred from? Have you had a fresh, independent pair of eyes assess him? Maybe even a judge? Is he health tested, conformationally sound, of good temperament and is his pedigree worthy of continuing? Only when you know the faults can you progress "for the betterment of the breed".

If the first thing you think about when looking to breed is what colour the bitch should be, then I suggest you do a hell of a lot more research before taking that next step. Colour is, as Sandra777 has said, utterly irrelevant and there are a lot more important issues to address first.

Yes I totally agree with you and please excuse my ignorance as this is my first time into all things breeding, but we all have to start somwhere, ask dumb questions, and get abused by other breeders, we dont just evolve as top notch breeders first time round equipped with all the right knowledge and answers. Yes my male has been tested and cleared of herediatary diseases, and been reviewed by a family freind who is a long time show goer who has advised that in their opinion my male is as I said a "fantastic specimen" with all the right attributes. The only reason I asked about the colouring of the bitch was I had heard that crossing certain colours can have adverse effects on the offsrping such as dilution of colouring and other defects which I want to avoid (hence my statement of the betterment of the breed). Whether this is actually true or not it was meant as an inocent general question. Again I am sorry to have upset any of the established breeders as this wasnt my intention. I will direct all my questions now to my vetinerian and be guided by them instead of using this forum.

Excuse my ignorance but isn't blue a dilute itself

Ugh and people on these threads wonder why the general public think poorly of the purebred community... Sounds like this guy is trying very hard to do the right thing and came looking for help and advice. That certainly wasn't what he got, and now he's going to go to his vet who will probably tell him the best idea is to breed his staffy to a kelpie for hybrid vigour! You guys are your own worst enemies.

Oh come on. Not one person on here has been rude or unpleasent.

In fact I believe its all been very helpful and informative.

+ 1

I don't have Staffords so very little advice but I think the best place to start would be the show ring :D

I am not saying that you have to show to breed but the amount of knowledge a newbie can gain if they are willing to learn and go in with an open mind is amazing and it will also give you a general idea of how good your dog really is and what direction you would like to head in, in the future.

I think my first dog is superb too and well he sorta is but he will not be bred from because even though he is a multi best in show winner, he is very correct, has fantastic movement and is very typical of the breed he isn't the type of dog I want to show and breed in the future.

What are you future goals and plans, what direction do you want to go in. How will breeding your dog achieve these goals and plans. What will you be doing to improve the breed by breeding your dog in particular.

[Shaar]

People like myself? What group of people do I belong to exactly? I haven't played any part in one of these threads before, I only piped up here because it annoyed me that the guy was continually thanking everyone for their advice and still receiving crappy treatment, and has now left with a bad taste in his mouth.

To be honest, I did read it the same as jacqui at first..

No-one expects sunshine and lollypops there's nothing wrong with being upfront, but you have to remember, not everyone knows about dogs and breeding like many of us here.

I agree that color is the last thing to think about at the moment, conformation and health should be first but it is a genuine question, some breeds obviously have colors than can not or should not be mixed. You could find a fantastic bitch but she may not be a compatible color.

To find a mentor all you really need to do is start talking to breeders.

Attending local dog shows is a great way to start, find some in your area and just start chatting to exhibitors. That's how I started out, I knew not a great deal about my breed when I began and the other exhibitors/breeders really helped me out.

The more friends in your breed you have the more help you can get.

[Sandra777]

Sigh. You're not nasty, you're just very protective and defensive when it comes to dogs and it upsets me as a dog lover and supporter of the purebred community when I feel that people are being turned away when we so desperately need more supporters. Dju said it much more eloquently than I did.

And if you had been involved with a breed which has been taken to hell and beyond by "breeders" who firstly were only interested in breeding anything just for money and then turned to utterly destroying the soul of the breed by breeding purely for colour (and money), then perhaps you would be able to understand why all people who love the Stafford are protective and defensive about a breed which could possibly be beyond saving.

[WreckitWhippet]

Rather than having a nice big gene pool of quality dogs and bitches, the breed has been reduced to some quality, along with the usual sub standard animals that you get in any breed and then there's the blues.

These poor quality animals make up half or more of the pups that are produced ( that's just going off DOL and I'm sure there's a hell of a lot more out there ), it's getting more difficult to buy a quality Stafford, be it pet or show by the day.

These money grabbing blue breeders have all but ruined the breed and it's reputation, with their mass production of dogs with poor type, temperament, structure and the myriad of problems associated with it.

ETA: I saw a dog the other day that was going to be a "breeders" you bute new stud dog, hot off the plane he was. I got to have a good look at him and get my hands on him. He had inverted canines, a poor head ( that was being generous ) , lacked underjaw, was turned out in front, had straight stifles, a short tail, roached topline, light eyes, short in upper arm...... Of course he was registered and that is supposed to be the future of the breed. He was pet quality and not even a quality pet, let alone a stud prospect

Edited July 20, 2011 by ReadySetGo

[Missymoo]

intrepidstaf: if you are still lurking, I wish you all the best for the future, please find yourself a fantastic mentor and go from there