intrepidstaff Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 This question is probably more for the breeders section but unfortunately being new to dogs online I cannot participate in this forum at present. My question is a new breeder of pure bred Staffies I have a few questions I would like answers to before fully setting up, I have had staffies for the past 25 years but not been into breeding. Firstly I would like it known that I am in the breeding for the betterment of the breed and not the finacial gain as I see alot of people are into....obviously, particulary the blue breeders. I have a fantastic blue male because I love the colour and would like to know for sure what colour bitches are best to breed from to strengthen colour, pigmentation etc. I have heard that you shouldnt breed blue with blue as it dilutes, but have also heard the same about breeding with blacks. Does anyone have a definitive answer to this question, as I very much so want to get it right. I do understand there are many factors which come into play with clours that you get but is there a general rule of thumb???? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) The colour of the bitch is utterly irrelevant. The dog and bitch need to be compatiable in terms of lack of common faults and complementing virtues both in themselves and in their pedigree. Correct temperament, health testing all in order, breeder with a prefix, dogs main registered. Concentrate on these things, that'll take you another 25 years to sort out then perhaps you can concern yourself with something so insignificant as the colour of the dog's hair. ETA: Staffordshire Bull Terriers don't, genetically speaking, come in black. Edited July 18, 2011 by Sandra777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Agreed. A good dog is not a bad colour, but plenty of nice colours are badly conformed dogs. Concentrate on conformation and forget about colour and you will be part of the way there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrepidstaff Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 The colour of the bitch is utterly irrelevant. The dog and bitch need to be compatiable in terms of lack of common faults and complementing virtues both in themselves and in their pedigree. Correct temperament, health testing all in order, breeder with a prefix, dogs main registered. Concentrate on these things, that'll take you another 25 years to sort out then perhaps you can concern yourself with something so insignificant as the colour of the dog's hair. ETA: Staffordshire Bull Terriers don't, genetically speaking, come in black. Thanks for the advice, i did know there is no such colour as black only black/brindle i was just generally describing. Just wanting to do it properly or not at all. Only new to breeding as previously stated and still getting the basiscs down. I am not ready to begin breeding for about another two years, so getting in early to learn as much as I can. thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrepidstaff Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Agreed. A good dog is not a bad colour, but plenty of nice colours are badly conformed dogs. Concentrate on conformation and forget about colour and you will be part of the way there. Thanks for the advice. will do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missymoo Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 apply for your breeders prefix and adopt a fantastic mentor in the breed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrepidstaff Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 apply for your breeders prefix and adopt a fantastic mentor in the breed... Already have a breeders prefix INTREPIDFIRE membership # 2100057399 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Also google Color dilution alopecia and do some reading before considering breeding two dilutes. It's not bettering the breed if the progeny is hairless with skin infections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrepidstaff Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Also google Color dilution alopecia and do some reading before considering breeding two dilutes. It's not bettering the breed if the progeny is hairless with skin infections. Thanks for the advice..im googling it now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keira&Phoenix Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) Find a mentor. That is the very best way for you to find out what you need to know. A mentor will be able to answer all your questions, help you with the decision on what bitch to breed to what dog, help you get into showing/sports if that is what your plan is. Obviously you need to find a breeder who is in it for the same reasons as you ie: betterment of the breed and not breeding to profit from "rare" colours. Edited July 18, 2011 by Keira&Phoenix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrepidstaff Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) Find a mentor. That is the very best way for you to find out what you need to know. A mentor will be able to answer all your questions, help you with the decision on what bitch to breed to what dog, help you get into showing/sports if that is what your plan is. Sensational idea, I think thats what I will do for sure. Yes we would like to show as well Edited July 18, 2011 by intrepidstaff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrepidstaff Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Find a mentor. That is the very best way for you to find out what you need to know. A mentor will be able to answer all your questions, help you with the decision on what bitch to breed to what dog, help you get into showing/sports if that is what your plan is. Obviously you need to find a breeder who is in it for the same reasons as you ie: betterment of the breed and not breeding to profit from "rare" colours. Thanks so much for your comments. It is hard to find a good breeder around here though but I will look, because if I cant do it propoerly im not going to do it at all. Im not like these people who just pucnh out blue pups for the money........these people really s@#t me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I would also suggest that you join the Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club of NSW and go along to their specialty shows and club meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 It is hard to find a good breeder around here though but I will look, because if I cant do it propoerly im not going to do it at all. Im not like these people who just pucnh out blue pups for the money........these people really s@#t me. There are many many good breeders in NSW, it won't be that hard to hook up with a good one, what shows have you attended, where have you actually looked for a good breeder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoL Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 This question is probably more for the breeders section but unfortunately being new to dogs online I cannot participate in this forum at present. My question is a new breeder of pure bred Staffies I have a few questions I would like answers to before fully setting up, I have had staffies for the past 25 years but not been into breeding. Firstly I would like it known that I am in the breeding for the betterment of the breed and not the finacial gain as I see alot of people are into....obviously, particulary the blue breeders. I have a fantastic blue male because I love the colour and would like to know for sure what colour bitches are best to breed from to strengthen colour, pigmentation etc. I have heard that you shouldnt breed blue with blue as it dilutes, but have also heard the same about breeding with blacks. Does anyone have a definitive answer to this question, as I very much so want to get it right. I do understand there are many factors which come into play with clours that you get but is there a general rule of thumb???? Thanks in advance. Are you sure you have a "fantastic" male? Can you assess your dog honestly and objectively, with an experienced eye, pit him against the breed standard and say hand on heart that you have a fantastic male specimen of the breed, worthy of being shown, worthy of being bred from? Have you had a fresh, independent pair of eyes assess him? Maybe even a judge? Is he health tested, conformationally sound, of good temperament and is his pedigree worthy of continuing? Only when you know the faults can you progress "for the betterment of the breed". If the first thing you think about when looking to breed is what colour the bitch should be, then I suggest you do a hell of a lot more research before taking that next step. Colour is, as Sandra777 has said, utterly irrelevant and there are a lot more important issues to address first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrepidstaff Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 This question is probably more for the breeders section but unfortunately being new to dogs online I cannot participate in this forum at present. My question is a new breeder of pure bred Staffies I have a few questions I would like answers to before fully setting up, I have had staffies for the past 25 years but not been into breeding. Firstly I would like it known that I am in the breeding for the betterment of the breed and not the finacial gain as I see alot of people are into....obviously, particulary the blue breeders. I have a fantastic blue male because I love the colour and would like to know for sure what colour bitches are best to breed from to strengthen colour, pigmentation etc. I have heard that you shouldnt breed blue with blue as it dilutes, but have also heard the same about breeding with blacks. Does anyone have a definitive answer to this question, as I very much so want to get it right. I do understand there are many factors which come into play with clours that you get but is there a general rule of thumb???? Thanks in advance. Are you sure you have a "fantastic" male? Can you assess your dog honestly and objectively, with an experienced eye, pit him against the breed standard and say hand on heart that you have a fantastic male specimen of the breed, worthy of being shown, worthy of being bred from? Have you had a fresh, independent pair of eyes assess him? Maybe even a judge? Is he health tested, conformationally sound, of good temperament and is his pedigree worthy of continuing? Only when you know the faults can you progress "for the betterment of the breed". If the first thing you think about when looking to breed is what colour the bitch should be, then I suggest you do a hell of a lot more research before taking that next step. Colour is, as Sandra777 has said, utterly irrelevant and there are a lot more important issues to address first. Yes I totally agree with you and please excuse my ignorance as this is my first time into all things breeding, but we all have to start somwhere, ask dumb questions, and get abused by other breeders, we dont just evolve as top notch breeders first time round equipped with all the right knowledge and answers. Yes my male has been tested and cleared of herediatary diseases, and been reviewed by a family freind who is a long time show goer who has advised that in their opinion my male is as I said a "fantastic specimen" with all the right attributes. The only reason I asked about the colouring of the bitch was I had heard that crossing certain colours can have adverse effects on the offsrping such as dilution of colouring and other defects which I want to avoid (hence my statement of the betterment of the breed). Whether this is actually true or not it was meant as an inocent general question. Again I am sorry to have upset any of the established breeders as this wasnt my intention. I will direct all my questions now to my vetinerian and be guided by them instead of using this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui835 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Ugh and people on these threads wonder why the general public think poorly of the purebred community... Sounds like this guy is trying very hard to do the right thing and came looking for help and advice. That certainly wasn't what he got, and now he's going to go to his vet who will probably tell him the best idea is to breed his staffy to a kelpie for hybrid vigour! You guys are your own worst enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrepidstaff Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Ugh and people on these threads wonder why the general public think poorly of the purebred community... Sounds like this guy is trying very hard to do the right thing and came looking for help and advice. That certainly wasn't what he got, and now he's going to go to his vet who will probably tell him the best idea is to breed his staffy to a kelpie for hybrid vigour! You guys are your own worst enemies. Thank you for your words of support, i would rather not do it at all if i cant do it properly, god know there are swarms of people out there doing it for the wrong reason.....i am proud to say iam not one of them. tahnsk again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Ugh and people on these threads wonder why the general public think poorly of the purebred community... Sounds like this guy is trying very hard to do the right thing and came looking for help and advice. That certainly wasn't what he got, and now he's going to go to his vet who will probably tell him the best idea is to breed his staffy to a kelpie for hybrid vigour! You guys are your own worst enemies. Oh come on. Not one person on here has been rude or unpleasent. In fact I believe its all been very helpful and informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Ugh and people on these threads wonder why the general public think poorly of the purebred community... Sounds like this guy is trying very hard to do the right thing and came looking for help and advice. That certainly wasn't what he got, and now he's going to go to his vet who will probably tell him the best idea is to breed his staffy to a kelpie for hybrid vigour! You guys are your own worst enemies. And he GOT help and advice 1) when breeding colour is irrelevant, concentrate on the important stuff. I think everyone who breeds dogs for the right reasons would accept this as a good answer 2) The question about in who's opinion is his male "fantastic" is quite valid, everyone thinks their own dog is fantastic and so they should - and he answered it saying someone with good credentials believes it to be so, which is great 3) WHERE have you looked for good breeders is also a valid question since he claimed it was difficult to find good breeders in NSW (which is not true). Haven't got an answer for that one yet 4) He was advised to join a breed club, which is excellant advice 5)He was advised to find a mentor, which is excellant advice 6) He was advised to look in to one of the most common problems with the colour of the dog he already owns. Sorry Jacqui I must've missed it - what advice did YOU contribute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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