wuffles Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Whilst training a high drive dog for obedience and retrieving would be awesome- you also have to live with the dog, can be a bit testing with a high drive working line dog. It all depends on what the OP wants- a top level obedience/retrieving dog that needs hours of training and exercise a day or a pleasant companion dog that has the potential to do well in obedience or retrieving. Personally i think if they want the second dog they'd be better off going for a show line or guide dog line where the parents/relatives have achieved obedience/dog sport titles. There was a thread in puppy forum recently about working line dogs and most agreed that high drive working line dogs are a lot of work but worth it if you're after a dog for a job or really competitive dog sport dog. If you're not up for all the work, then a good all rounder would be preferable. I think I wanted something similar to you, Mason2009. We had an older, placid dog. We also have a small yard and work full time, so it wouldn't have been fair to get a really high drive pup. I asked our breeder for a middle-of-the-road puppy... with only 5 pups in the litter, she had to work with what she had, but we ended up with the perfect dog for us. We are doing really well in obedience. We're not going to be the ones that wow the audience with her drive and focus, but she is super reliable and easy to train, and also great to live with as a companion If you want a submissive pup, be sure you mention this to the breeder, but make sure you don't compromise on confidence for a dog sports pup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I would think any dog can do obedience. Obi is much drivier than Pixie, so he's a bit easier to train for it, plus he has a much longer attention span, probably from doing classes pretty much constantly since he was 3 months. Pixie has much lower food drive, and had almost no toy drive when I got her at 12 months. As she was introduced to shaping her food drive went up (still not as high as Obi's) and then I shaped her to play with toys, which increased her interest in toys. She would still only play at home, so I then introduced a special toy (a ball) that she doesn't have access to all the time, and when she plays with it I end the game just as she's getting really excited about it. As a result, she played with a ball in class this week, and got really into it. That was a first. You have to work a little harder to train a dog that has lower drive, but of course it can be done. I plan to do obedience with both my dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 You have to work a little harder to train a dog that has lower drive, but of course it can be done. I plan to do obedience with both my dogs. I think this is true to an extent, but it can really be an uphill battle doing obedience with a low drive dog. It's a fair amount of time they have to work without rewards in a trial. At trials I see lots and lots of dogs that would just prefer to be at home in bed... it can be painful to watch. They may 'go through the motions' but few seem to enjoy it or get high scores. My older dog much prefers staying at home eating a bone so that's what he gets to do when I take my young girl to trials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Personally whilst I think some breeders are great what one will think may make a puppy suitable for obedience can differ completely from what the owner may think is suitable or what a trainer would think is suitable. I wouldn't rely solely on the breeders opinion when picking my puppy. I agree Mas first and foremost needs to get a dog she can live with. Yes but surely you don't think one visit with the pups a few hours long will reveal more to you about the pups temprament then the breeder learns in 8 weeks? I am sure if you let the breeder know the sort of things you are looking for in a pup and that will make the pup suitable you will have a greater chance of getting a good fit as they will be able to observe over weeks instead of hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) RV - I wouldnt go to a breeder I didn't trust but to give you an example when I got Daisy I asked the breeder which pup was most outgoing and she said "I think they are all pretty much the same" - this was a woman who had been breeding for 30 years. Especially if you are looking at a breed not commonly used in obedience or dog sports, I am not going to ever rely 100% on the breeder picking me out a puppy. At the end of the day, they are breeders not behavioral experts. I am not saying they are clueless but I wouldn't go to a breeder who didn't give me a choice of which pup to take home. Edited July 14, 2011 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I would think any dog can do obedience. The issue of course is whether any dog can: * do it well * make in an enjoyable experience for both dog and handler * have the temperament to cope well in a trialling environment. * warrant the amount of time and effort the handler will put in to make it worthwhile. Those are subjective issues but I can tell you that some dogs are a lot more work and heartache than others. If you want to do competitive obedience and do it well, you can make it a hell of a lot easier for yourself as a handler with the right puppy/dog choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 RV - I wouldnt go to a breeder I didn't trust but to give you an example when I got Daisy I asked the breeder which pup was most outgoing and she said "I think they are all pretty much the same" - this was a woman who had been breeding for 30 years. Especially if you are looking at a breed not commonly used in obedience or dog sports, I am not going to ever rely 100% on the breeder picking me out a puppy. At the end of the day, they are breeders not behavioral experts. I am not saying they are clueless but I wouldn't go to a breeder who didn't give me a choice of which pup to take home. Thats kinda hard as a blanket rule. In my last litter I KNEW one boy in particular had to go to a sports home- no ifs buts or maybe's. I actually went after the people that I thought should own him- they were not looking for a pup. And it has been a perfect match. But that is because I am heavily involved in the same sport so was very confident that he had all the right characteristics. If someone approached me for a sporting pup they would possibly be given a selection of pups. Firstly based on those with the conformation to do the required task, then any that I also did not believe had the right personality would also be removed from the equation. So they might only be left with one suitable pup. If thats not the right fit then IMO none of the others in the litter would be suitable either, and I would prefer they look at a different litter because I want everyone to get the right pup for them..... And if that means its not from my litter that then I am happy to suggest other litters. After seeing poor matches I dont want my pup to be in that situation. BUT other breeders are more interested in selling their litter and in those cases I agree with what Huski is saying. Although I am also guessing that like me Huski would walk away from the litter if she didnt see what she wanted in it. Which is also not what most people looking at puppies would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'm not saying that I must have my choice out of the entire litter but if a breeder said to me "this is your puppy" and I had no choice in the matter at all I would walk. I want to make sure I am getting the right puppy for me and at the end of the day I'm not going to be willing to rely 100% on the breeder to know exactly what I want and how to look for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Which is why it would be ideal find a breeder who has titled their dogs in your chosen sport. While no guarantee I think you'd have a better chance of the Being being able to pick a suitable pup Eta- ugh iPhone auto correct!! Lol Edited July 14, 2011 by aussielover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 I would like to do obedience ( i compete with current dog but he is low drive) would like a dog with more drive but not so drivey that it to live with it becomes a nightmare. Looking at the parents none of them are extremly high drive so i doubt any of the pups will be so drivey that i woukd not want them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I would not consider Brooklyn to be inherently high drive....he is just as happy to cuddle up on the lounge as he is to be doing stuff with me. Zac, on the other hand, is very high drive...I asked for the rat bag puppy and that's what I got!!! I think you need to look for biddable and a puppy that wants to be with you...trust your breeder and do some puppy tests as others have suggested. I would like to do obedience ( i compete with current dog but he is low drive) would like a dog with more drive but not so drivey that it to live with it becomes a nightmare. Looking at the parents none of them are extremly high drive so i doubt any of the pups will be so drivey that i woukd not want them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Huski in all honesty if it was someone like you coming along I wouldn't necessarily apply the same rule, but in my breed (and I am sure in most breeds) and with most people, it's a case of breeder would know best, at least, for owners looking for companion pets that might like to dabble, but not seriously, in dog sports. I have no doubt that there are breeders out there that do not really give a toss who they match their puppy to, but if I had someone who wanted to choose their own puppy with no accepting of breeder opinion, I would be telling them to look elsewhere. I have seen too many of my breed in this state being rehomed because the new owners didn't expect what they got, and i am sure that in most cases it was lack of research by the buyer and lack of care from the breeders placing the puppies to learn about their buyers needs. Edited July 14, 2011 by SparkyTansy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) I would like to do obedience ( i compete with current dog but he is low drive) would like a dog with more drive but not so drivey that it to live with it becomes a nightmare. Looking at the parents none of them are extremly high drive so i doubt any of the pups will be so drivey that i woukd not want them. Personally I think its a bit of a myth that high drive necessarily equals hard to live with. The highest prey drive dogs I know are total couch potatoes. Its what drive you engage and how you manage the dog to satisfy that drive that matters. If the dog has stable temperament and receives adequate mental and physical stimulation, it shouldn't be a problem. Some of the highest drive dogs I know are not nightmares around the home. Personally Mason, if you are here and keen on obedience, I think you'd find it far more rewarding to get a really top quality obedience prospect and adjust your lifestyle to the dog than to put in a lot of time and effort on a lesser pup. The lesser dogs take just as much (if not more) effort to train. You have a Labrador so you know the basics of the breed. What you're talking about may be a step up in drives but not totally new to you. I would get a bitch though. Even if she's bossy, Mason will be happily hen pecked. Edited July 14, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Oh ST I totally agree - I think that for companion pets often the breeder picks well. But that's not what I would be looking for and I am very upfront and honest about what I am looking for in a puppy when I talk to breeders. Again I am not saying I think the breeder's opinion is irrelevent, just that I would not take a puppy I had no input in choosing. If I went to look at the whole litter and found nothing that was 100% what I wanted I would walk, even if the breeder felt a puppy would be suitable for me. ETA: I also agree with others that you can be making it hard on yourself competing with a low drive dog. Especially if you want to go further than Novice - how many low drive dogs can do and would enjoy doing a full UD or CDX run out? Edited July 14, 2011 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I would like to do obedience ( i compete with current dog but he is low drive) would like a dog with more drive but not so drivey that it to live with it becomes a nightmare. Looking at the parents none of them are extremly high drive so i doubt any of the pups will be so drivey that i woukd not want them. OK you know how psycho Millie can get. No she isn't working lines (heck, who knows what lines! Downside of a rescue!) but she makes it sooooooooooooo much fun to train because she is so full on and eager to do stuff. But I have taught her manners at home and she too is a joy to live with. You can have a drivier dog that isn't a nightmare to live with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarLapyz Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'm not saying that I must have my choice out of the entire litter but if a breeder said to me "this is your puppy" and I had no choice in the matter at all I would walk. I want to make sure I am getting the right puppy for me and at the end of the day I'm not going to be willing to rely 100% on the breeder to know exactly what I want and how to look for it. I think you need to trust your breeder more, and if you can't trust them, maybe they aren't the breeder for you. The breeder has spent seven or eight weeks with the puppies, seen them every day in a ton of different situations and has likely done temperament testing etc on them (especially if they are a serious sports breeder). They will also have had an extensive chat with you about what you want and expect. I would trust them to pick the right puppy for you given all their experience and time with the pups over the impression you build (even if you go and see them a few times). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Personally I think its a bit of a myth that high drive necessarily equals hard to live with. Some of the highest drive dogs I know are not nightmares around the home. I would get a bitch though. Even if she's bossy, Mason will be happily hen pecked. to all those points. Edited July 14, 2011 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Mason, there's one more thing you could think about. You've got some of the best obedience trainers and triallers in the country over there. Why not pay someone like Sue Hogben to help you pick a pup??? Or Ptolemy?? If you take a trainer that you're intending to train with, that would be ideal. LISTEN to what they say if they say "no, not this litter" walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Mason, there's one more thing you could think about. You've got some of the best obedience trainers and triallers in the country over there. Why not pay someone like Sue Hogben to help you pick a pup??? Or Ptolemy?? If you take a trainer that you're intending to train with, that would be ideal. LISTEN to what they say if they say "no, not this litter" walk away. I cant agree more with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'm not saying that I must have my choice out of the entire litter but if a breeder said to me "this is your puppy" and I had no choice in the matter at all I would walk. I want to make sure I am getting the right puppy for me and at the end of the day I'm not going to be willing to rely 100% on the breeder to know exactly what I want and how to look for it. I think you need to trust your breeder more, and if you can't trust them, maybe they aren't the breeder for you. The breeder has spent seven or eight weeks with the puppies, seen them every day in a ton of different situations and has likely done temperament testing etc on them (especially if they are a serious sports breeder). They will also have had an extensive chat with you about what you want and expect. I would trust them to pick the right puppy for you given all their experience and time with the pups over the impression you build (even if you go and see them a few times). To add in my 2 cents worth in here... trusting the breeder is one thing if they have proven that they know what their doing with assessing puppies (like if they compete in some sort of sport) but realistically there are some breeders that really have no idea. I have spoken to soo many breeders who have absolutely no idea on temperment and will place a pup in any old home. My current bitch is from such a breeder, she let me pick what ever I wanted first before she simply gave the rest of the puppy buyers have their pick... thankfully I ended up with Ella and not some pet home who wanted a calm friendly dog who would cope in the backyard with a half hour walk! Picking the right breeder is probably as important as picking the right puppy. To the OP - have you considered looking interstate for a good breeder? The right breeder/puppy isn't always in your state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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