Private Conformation Trainers Wgtn? Advice?

[Maddy27]

Hello everyone.

My names Rob, and I have two gorgeous Rottweilers.

Older one, Maddy is 4 younger one, Kandy is 5 months.

Anyway on with my question.

I did A LOT of research before purchasing Kandy. I checked hip scores, show success, breeders reputation etc. I decided on Kandy (don't know if Im aloud to list breeder?) but her dad is NZ GR CH and her mum although not a CH has both parents NZ CH's. She is a very healthy lively young pup. My issue is that she wont stack. I don't know if it hurts her when I pull her legs back too far, or if shes not stable, or if shes just a stubborn pup? I attend conformation training each Wednesday at the NZKC (porirua) and she seems to show promise. But the not stacking thing is just plain painful. Does anyone have any tips or know of someone who does private conformation training? I imagine I need more training than the dog! I have included photo's of her and a couple of us doing our best to stack, as you can see her back legs are no where near far enough back to be considered stacked. That's the best we can do. I appologise for the photo's, I have been told on another forum that the photos should be taken straight on of the dog and in future I will do so.

[Maddy27]

Also forgot to mention, she starts her showing on the 6th and 7th of august with the Upper Hutt Kennel association show, and the Pencarrow Kennel association show. Both are double championship shows.

[Inevitablue]

I'm no expert but my pup didn't like stretching out a bit for a stack. It was suggested her back was out. Before I took her to the Chiro I double checked it was a pain thing by giving her some carprofen before training one night, and she stacked beautifully.

After a visit (several) to the Chiro she stacks nicely.

She would accept the placement of her feet but after about 10sec she would always bring one foot forward.

[stonecutter]

Someone at the training place I go to uses these for a toy poodle and swears by them

http://showstackers.com/

[pebbles]

Hi Rob, your girl may have something out and a visit to a Chiro could solve the problem. Just a couple of things to look at before going - when she is free, running in the yard and alerts to something, how does she stand then? Will she stand alert, properly on her own? Any sign of the hind action being 'off'? This could show pain somewhere. Another thing to try instead of pulling her back legs back- hope you're strong - lift her front end just off the ground and move forward slowly until the hind is where you want it then slowly lower the front to the ground, hope that makes sense! The legs mightn't be exactly in the right places but a bit of practise and lots of encouragement to her to 'stay'/'stand'. Will she free stack for bait or a toy, also worth a try. She's only a baby yet and might just be being difficult. Good luck.

[SoL]

After you've had her checked out with a muscle man, I would suggest placing each of her paws in the correct place whilst saying a key word (I use "stand" in a long and low voice). If you have to, place your hand under her, around her tuck area to stop her from sitting down and also holding her jaw up. Treat when you are satisfied. Gradually draw out the time between action and reward. I also make mine stand before eating. This teaches them two things - one that they don't get to eat unless they do as I ask and do it properly; and two that I have control over their food meaning I am higher in the pecking order which reinforces the fact that they should listen to me and do as I ask.

[becks]

Her back looks very roached up and she has dropped her front end which would suggest she is very stressed about it all or in pain. How does she stand naturally without you trying to stack her?

[Showpony]

Her back looks very roached up and she has dropped her front end which would suggest she is very stressed about it all or in pain. How does she stand naturally without you trying to stack her?

Hi,

Also the surface you stand on is important.......make sure her feet cant slip.....so train her on grass or a cement path....not on lino or carpet. Lots of praiseand treats.....make it fun.

[nabs]

Have you tried training at your local park? Dogs don't stack well on slippery surfaces like lino. I find my dogs work better away from home.

[lils mum]

Hello everyone.

My names Rob, and I have two gorgeous Rottweilers.

Older one, Maddy is 4 younger one, Kandy is 5 months.

Anyway on with my question.

I did A LOT of research before purchasing Kandy. I checked hip scores, show success, breeders reputation etc. I decided on Kandy (don't know if Im aloud to list breeder?) but her dad is NZ GR CH and her mum although not a CH has both parents NZ CH's. ....

Have you sent the same pics to your breeder with your questions? They may have some valuable input.

[OSoSwift]

My boy when I got him did not like to stack, would stack but couldn't hold it and was dropping his wither. Two sessions of Bowen (which is maintained from time to time) and he now stacks beautifuly and holds it indefinately.

He also did not free stack well when cruising around, he would also drop his wither and A-frame a little.

I would get her back checked and then try stacking her on a very grippy surface and in the beginning reward after only a few seconds of holding it then work at it being longer.

[Maddy27]

Hello everyone thank you very much for your advice. It is truly appreciated! I approached our conformation trainer the other night to see if he could do private lessons but he is too busy at the moment. He also said that there wasn't anything wrong with her back however I may run her by the vet on monday when Im off work. Becks, I think you are bang on the money. Unfortunately poor Kandy doesnt seem to enjoy it at all and sometimes starts shaking like shes scared, I have no idea why? I only do very small sessions at a time (3 minutes 2-3 times a day) I also think that it might be best to do it after I've finished walking her so she's perhaps slightly more relaxed.

Also to everyone that mentioned the slippery floor, the same thing was told to me over at the Rott forums. Thing is that she does her best stacking, ironically, at the NZKC show buildings (when we do our conformation training) and the floors there are smooth concrete. I truly hope this little bizarre twist continues when we go to the same building for shows! To the people who encourage giving her a treat, my issue is that as soon as I reach for the treat she breaks the stand/stack and everything Ive ever been told by trainers is that you need to reward instantly or atleast before they break the command (i.e. sitting down, breaking the stack).

I learned one thing that was VERY helpful at training last night. The trainer told me (and it worked) the best thing to do with a pup is to lift them around the genital area so you'r placing both legs at once rather than having to set each leg individually (giving her a chance to move the other leg). I still didnt get her so that her hock was perpendicular to the ground, but it was close! I think she is capable of having her legs positioned correctly because she was pulling on her lead to sniff another dog last night and I saw her legs facing straight down (the right way for a stack!).

Thankyou very much for all the help it is brilliant! Kandy will be booked into the vet first thing monday.

[SparkyTansy]

if she is unhappy about it all she is going to resist... you need to make it fun for her.

If you would like to treat part of her training means she must hold her stack for the treat. You could try clicker training her?

P.S the best person to assess if there is something going on with her back is a good Bowen therapist or a doggy chiro.

Edited July 15, 2011 by SparkyTansy

[Maddy27]

Hey there everyone. Spoke to a Chiro this morning. Kandy is booked in for tomorrow!

On a side note. I was told (unsure of truth behind rumour) that the winner of best in show at the 11 nat's was a staffy that was written off as "ugly" throughout his younger life. After seeing a chiro they clicked his back/legs and he is now the champ for all of NZ!!!

This is the chiro we're booked in with http://www.ceatnz.com/about/01-fenella.html finding a chiro in NZ was a PITA! I tried ringing Massey university (vet training uni) I tried ringing the NZ Veterinarian Association, I checked the yellow pages, google, everywhere. What made it even worse is there's a place in palmy called Animal Chiropractic that doesnt do animals!?!?!?

Anyway, yes Kandy is booked, thank you everyone for your help, lets hope this does the trick!

[mrms]

Hey there everyone. Spoke to a Chiro this morning. Kandy is booked in for tomorrow!

On a side note. I was told (unsure of truth behind rumour) that the winner of best in show at the 11 nat's was a staffy that was written off as "ugly" throughout his younger life. After seeing a chiro they clicked his back/legs and he is now the champ for all of NZ!!!

This is the chiro we're booked in with http://www.ceatnz.co...01-fenella.html finding a chiro in NZ was a PITA! I tried ringing Massey university (vet training uni) I tried ringing the NZ Veterinarian Association, I checked the yellow pages, google, everywhere. What made it even worse is there's a place in palmy called Animal Chiropractic that doesnt do animals!?!?!?

Anyway, yes Kandy is booked, thank you everyone for your help, lets hope this does the trick!

Fenella has done wonders with my dogs