Seita Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 So I'm asking this from a UD Scent Discrimination point of view but I guess it could translate across to any scent work really. I have a very excitable dog who sometimes gets a little over the top on her articles and will rush out to the pile and grab the first article she sees, she then remembers what she's supposed to be doing, spits it out and works the pile like she should. I haven't done anything about it as I wanted to work on her getting her confident on her articles but I think it's time to stop her from doing this alltogether. She's been doing them for almost 2 years now so I think she knows the exercise well enough and is just letting her excitement override her head. So my question is, what would you do to stop her from doing this? I was thinking along the lines of giving her a NRM the moment she picks up the wrong one and calling her away from articles but I'm hesitant to do anything as I don't want to confuse her or cause her to lose some of her confidence. Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kallistar Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 So I'm asking this from a UD Scent Discrimination point of view but I guess it could translate across to any scent work really. I have a very excitable dog who sometimes gets a little over the top on her articles and will rush out to the pile and grab the first article she sees, she then remembers what she's supposed to be doing, spits it out and works the pile like she should. I haven't done anything about it as I wanted to work on her getting her confident on her articles but I think it's time to stop her from doing this alltogether. She's been doing them for almost 2 years now so I think she knows the exercise well enough and is just letting her excitement override her head. So my question is, what would you do to stop her from doing this? I was thinking along the lines of giving her a NRM the moment she picks up the wrong one and calling her away from articles but I'm hesitant to do anything as I don't want to confuse her or cause her to lose some of her confidence. Thanks!! This is a hard one as you do not want to kill her confidence. But a few things come to mind to ask you. Is a mat that you send her to? Do you use an exciting voice to encourage her to go out? Are you too close/far away from the pile? Have you used the tie down method (sp?) to see if that helps? And what have you done to help her understand the exercise? I would start all over again, but use only a hand signal if it my voice that was making her too excited..... Standing in close so that there is no speed build up but where you can build up the confidence is good. Baby steps backwards till you get to the 5mtres. Others will have some ideas too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 So I'm asking this from a UD Scent Discrimination point of view but I guess it could translate across to any scent work really. I have a very excitable dog who sometimes gets a little over the top on her articles and will rush out to the pile and grab the first article she sees, she then remembers what she's supposed to be doing, spits it out and works the pile like she should. I haven't done anything about it as I wanted to work on her getting her confident on her articles but I think it's time to stop her from doing this alltogether. She's been doing them for almost 2 years now so I think she knows the exercise well enough and is just letting her excitement override her head. So my question is, what would you do to stop her from doing this? I was thinking along the lines of giving her a NRM the moment she picks up the wrong one and calling her away from articles but I'm hesitant to do anything as I don't want to confuse her or cause her to lose some of her confidence. Thanks!! This is a hard one as you do not want to kill her confidence. But a few things come to mind to ask you. Is a mat that you send her to? Do you use an exciting voice to encourage her to go out? Are you too close/far away from the pile? Have you used the tie down method (sp?) to see if that helps? And what have you done to help her understand the exercise? I would start all over again, but use only a hand signal if it my voice that was making her too excited..... Standing in close so that there is no speed build up but where you can build up the confidence is good. Baby steps backwards till you get to the 5mtres. Others will have some ideas too.. Yeah I'm struggling with what to do to fix it without killing the exercise! I taught it using the dogscouts method and it's really just an excitement thing as once she grabs the first article and realises that it's not right she spits it out and starts using her nose to find the right one. I don't use a hand signal as she's super reactive to my body movements and I use a very very very calm voice command to send her to the articles. They are not on a mat, I work her on the ground. I like the suggestion about shortening the distance to the articles, I'll give it a try tonight and see if it makes any difference. She very rarely brings the wrong article back but I'm trying to eliminate all the random things we lose points for! 2 points off for grabbing the wrong article because she's excited is bugging me! This is not the only thing we're tidying up, she's completely over the top for alot of a trial and I'm trying to keep the excitement but get it under a bit more control so we stop losing copious amounts of points! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipsqueak Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Just a random thought from a very "green" trainer, who has never trained articles - so I'm not sure how helpful it will be. Since you say that you are certain that she understands the exercise, my instinct would be to quietly end the training session as soon as she picked up the wrong article. I would not say anything, but would end the exercise, so as to remove the opportunity to earn a reward. I'm not familiar with dogscouts method (off to google!) - but my other thought is to have her find the articles in longish grass until she truly understands that she needs to use her nose. Edited July 12, 2011 by futuredogtrainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caffy Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Why not go back to one scented article..throw it out and send her..if she picks it up cleanly then party bigtime. Then put out objects she can't pick up and throw out your scented article again and send her...reward clean pick ups only. If she drops it all or mouths it, just take it quietly from her and do it again until you have a nice, definite pick up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kallistar Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 So I'm asking this from a UD Scent Discrimination point of view but I guess it could translate across to any scent work really. I have a very excitable dog who sometimes gets a little over the top on her articles and will rush out to the pile and grab the first article she sees, she then remembers what she's supposed to be doing, spits it out and works the pile like she should. I haven't done anything about it as I wanted to work on her getting her confident on her articles but I think it's time to stop her from doing this alltogether. She's been doing them for almost 2 years now so I think she knows the exercise well enough and is just letting her excitement override her head. So my question is, what would you do to stop her from doing this? I was thinking along the lines of giving her a NRM the moment she picks up the wrong one and calling her away from articles but I'm hesitant to do anything as I don't want to confuse her or cause her to lose some of her confidence. Thanks!! This is a hard one as you do not want to kill her confidence. But a few things come to mind to ask you. Is a mat that you send her to? Do you use an exciting voice to encourage her to go out? Are you too close/far away from the pile? Have you used the tie down method (sp?) to see if that helps? And what have you done to help her understand the exercise? I would start all over again, but use only a hand signal if it my voice that was making her too excited..... Standing in close so that there is no speed build up but where you can build up the confidence is good. Baby steps backwards till you get to the 5mtres. Others will have some ideas too.. Yeah I'm struggling with what to do to fix it without killing the exercise! I taught it using the dogscouts method and it's really just an excitement thing as once she grabs the first article and realises that it's not right she spits it out and starts using her nose to find the right one. I don't use a hand signal as she's super reactive to my body movements and I use a very very very calm voice command to send her to the articles. They are not on a mat, I work her on the ground. I like the suggestion about shortening the distance to the articles, I'll give it a try tonight and see if it makes any difference. She very rarely brings the wrong article back but I'm trying to eliminate all the random things we lose points for! 2 points off for grabbing the wrong article because she's excited is bugging me! This is not the only thing we're tidying up, she's completely over the top for alot of a trial and I'm trying to keep the excitement but get it under a bit more control so we stop losing copious amounts of points! What happens if you only have three articles out on the ground? Does she still snatch the first one that she comes across? Have you done them in the dark? Have you tried what Caffy has suggested? Did you try shortening the distance and what happened? Please let us know what is happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 well I tried one in the dark last night really close to the articles and we had no grabbing the wrong one at all... and I just tried again on the lounge room floor in full light from quite close to start with and then by the 3rd article moved it out to full distance and still no grabbing. Clearly my front yard and lounge room aren't exciting enough... I'll test it out with my hubby putting the articles out for me tomorrow and see if we get more/less excitement. Gee I hope it's not just trials where she gets over the top and does silly things... how do I fix that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kallistar Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 well I tried one in the dark last night really close to the articles and we had no grabbing the wrong one at all... and I just tried again on the lounge room floor in full light from quite close to start with and then by the 3rd article moved it out to full distance and still no grabbing. Clearly my front yard and lounge room aren't exciting enough... I'll test it out with my hubby putting the articles out for me tomorrow and see if we get more/less excitement. Gee I hope it's not just trials where she gets over the top and does silly things... how do I fix that? You might need to go to a park and do all of this again, until she is using her nose right from the word go. And remember BABY Steps all the way. Even though you have moved out to the full distance again, I would still go back in close until she is doing them all with out snatch and grab at least 40 times.. ( and that is not all in one day) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 well I tried one in the dark last night really close to the articles and we had no grabbing the wrong one at all... and I just tried again on the lounge room floor in full light from quite close to start with and then by the 3rd article moved it out to full distance and still no grabbing. Clearly my front yard and lounge room aren't exciting enough... I'll test it out with my hubby putting the articles out for me tomorrow and see if we get more/less excitement. Gee I hope it's not just trials where she gets over the top and does silly things... how do I fix that? You might need to go to a park and do all of this again, until she is using her nose right from the word go. And remember BABY Steps all the way. Even though you have moved out to the full distance again, I would still go back in close until she is doing them all with out snatch and grab at least 40 times.. ( and that is not all in one day) I'll take it on the road next week. We're stuck at home at the moment because she's in season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kallistar Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 well I tried one in the dark last night really close to the articles and we had no grabbing the wrong one at all... and I just tried again on the lounge room floor in full light from quite close to start with and then by the 3rd article moved it out to full distance and still no grabbing. Clearly my front yard and lounge room aren't exciting enough... I'll test it out with my hubby putting the articles out for me tomorrow and see if we get more/less excitement. Gee I hope it's not just trials where she gets over the top and does silly things... how do I fix that? You might need to go to a park and do all of this again, until she is using her nose right from the word go. And remember BABY Steps all the way. Even though you have moved out to the full distance again, I would still go back in close until she is doing them all with out snatch and grab at least 40 times.. ( and that is not all in one day) I'll take it on the road next week. We're stuck at home at the moment because she's in season! Please let us know what happens when you take it on the road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kallistar Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 So how is it all going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 We went to the dog club on Monday night and did one (at around a metre from the articles) and had no snatching... although I mucked up the order I normally do the articles in and because she knows I always do metal first she brought me back the wrong article, she had indicated the right one but decided that it must be a metal that I was sending her for and brought me the closest metal, NRM and she went back and picked up the right one. Apparently I need to mix up the order a little more often to keep her guessing and make sure she doesn't try to be clever if I make a mistake. But aside from that one thing she did the rest perfectly, no snatching or picking up wrong ones and she even managed to do nice turns, presents and I did a finish after one of the articles and she nailed that too! I probably won't have time to do another one until the weekend so we'll see how that goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 From the little bit I know of training scent work but working perfectly for my dog. Make sure your cue is different to a retrieve exercise cue. Put random scented articles out there so she understands she is looking for your scent and not just grab the first thing. Do not pattern train it, make it random. If she is drivey for the reward, keep it low value so she is thinking and not too excited until she totally gets the exercise. I would never correct the dog picking up the wrong article as we don't know what they smell, just don't reward wrong choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kallistar Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 We went to the dog club on Monday night and did one (at around a metre from the articles) and had no snatching... although I mucked up the order I normally do the articles in and because she knows I always do metal first she brought me back the wrong article, she had indicated the right one but decided that it must be a metal that I was sending her for and brought me the closest metal, NRM and she went back and picked up the right one. Apparently I need to mix up the order a little more often to keep her guessing and make sure she doesn't try to be clever if I make a mistake. But aside from that one thing she did the rest perfectly, no snatching or picking up wrong ones and she even managed to do nice turns, presents and I did a finish after one of the articles and she nailed that too! I probably won't have time to do another one until the weekend so we'll see how that goes. that is really good to hear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Well I did another one last night on the lounge room floor and again had no picking up of the wrong articles. She was really hyped up and super excited. We did it from less than a metre away and didn't bother with about turns as I was sitting on the couch and didn't want to move LOL! I'll keep doing it from a shorter distance for a while before I increase the distance again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 I practiced this again today and we put the articles out really far apart (not intentionally but it may have helped) and I only sent her from around a metre from the articles again and she didn't mouth any articles at all and was nice a confident on them. I'll try another one during the next week and put them quite spread out to see if that makes any difference. I'll keep experimenting with different set ups for a while and see what makes a difference and what doesn't. But at this stage it looks like we're improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kallistar Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I practiced this again today and we put the articles out really far apart (not intentionally but it may have helped) and I only sent her from around a metre from the articles again and she didn't mouth any articles at all and was nice a confident on them. I'll try another one during the next week and put them quite spread out to see if that makes any difference. I'll keep experimenting with different set ups for a while and see what makes a difference and what doesn't. But at this stage it looks like we're improving. YAY lovely to hear, keep up the good work. Just remember Baby steps.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kallistar Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I practiced this again today and we put the articles out really far apart (not intentionally but it may have helped) and I only sent her from around a metre from the articles again and she didn't mouth any articles at all and was nice a confident on them. I'll try another one during the next week and put them quite spread out to see if that makes any difference. I'll keep experimenting with different set ups for a while and see what makes a difference and what doesn't. But at this stage it looks like we're improving. YAY lovely to hear, keep up the good work. Just remember Baby steps.. How is it all going Seita? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Can't say how it's going as I haven't trained it in almost a month now! She got her OC title at the end of July and she had some mouthing of the articles at that trial and I haven't done them since as I've given her a holiday from obedience until Mid October (when I get back from holidays)! I'll be doing plenty of proofing and fixing once we're back in training before we head back into the ring! I don't want to see snatching and grabbing or uncertainty over an article ever again in the trial ring with her! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kallistar Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Can't say how it's going as I haven't trained it in almost a month now! She got her OC title at the end of July and she had some mouthing of the articles at that trial and I haven't done them since as I've given her a holiday from obedience until Mid October (when I get back from holidays)! I'll be doing plenty of proofing and fixing once we're back in training before we head back into the ring! I don't want to see snatching and grabbing or uncertainty over an article ever again in the trial ring with her! LOL Sorry I must of missed your post.. CONGRATULATIONS on getting your OC title )) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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