Camo16 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Have recently purchased a little stafford pup, who at 10 weeks was diagnosed with a Grade 3 Heart Murmur. He is now 16 weeks and the murmur has not changed, its been checked once a fortnight at the moment. The vet was talking about medications initially. From what my Vet has told me Grade 1 and 2 Mumurs in puppies can fix themselves, a Grade 3 Murmur cannot. Just looking for other peoples experiences with the same and what to expect throughout his life? My worst fears are that he will just drop dead, as he is my 6yr old sons dog. He has already 'collapsed' after playing quite vigorously. I know that they can live somewhat long and happy lives, its just somewhat distressing knowing something is wrong with our new little baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Sibs Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I'm so sorry to hear that. Maybe post this up in the Health section? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camo16 Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 I'm so sorry to hear that. Maybe post this up in the Health section? Thankyou. New to this!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I'm not sure why you've paid for a puppy with such a defect. The breeder should have PTS the puppy and not sold the lifetime of problems to a puppy buyer. I would return the pup to the breeder and look for a healthy puppy from and ethical breeder, one that is going to provide your son with the 12 plus years of fun and love that he deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I'm not sure why you've paid for a puppy with such a defect. The breeder should have PTS the puppy and not sold the lifetime of problems to a puppy buyer. I would return the pup to the breeder and look for a healthy puppy from and ethical breeder, one that is going to provide your son with the 12 plus years of fun and love that he deserves. I agree with ReadySetGo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoPaws Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 As far as I am aware the 'breeder' knew of the defect and sold the puppy to Camo without disclosing it to them, it wasn't until the puppy was at the vet that Camo became aware of the problem. Happy to be corrected if I am wrong. The breeder has offered to refund the $2500 purchase price (not the $1000+ in Vet fees already incurred in the last couple of months) if the puppy is returned where he will assessed and probably be pts. My head of course tells me return the puppy, there is no good outcome to this and only more heartbreak for Camo and her son in the future. Of course for a pet puppy buyer when you have poured your heart and soul into your dream puppy for two months and purchased from what you think is a registered ethical breeder it isn't quite that easy. My advice (and I have no experience with heart murmers) would be to take the puppy to a specialist and take the 'breeder' to the small claims court to recover all your expenses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 ohh let me guess... they purchased a blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camo16 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 The breeder did not know, he passed his 6 week vet check with flying colours. I had no idea the problems associated with blue staffords Camo has another appt next week with the vet so I'll ask for a specialist referral. The murmur hasn't gotten any worse which is promising apparently. There is no good outcome, I just can't comprehend him being PTS when he may live another 10 good years. Just a bit of a kick in the guts I guess. As far as I am aware the 'breeder' knew of the defect and sold the puppy to Camo without disclosing it to them, it wasn't until the puppy was at the vet that Camo became aware of the problem. Happy to be corrected if I am wrong. The breeder has offered to refund the $2500 purchase price (not the $1000+ in Vet fees already incurred in the last couple of months) if the puppy is returned where he will assessed and probably be pts. My head of course tells me return the puppy, there is no good outcome to this and only more heartbreak for Camo and her son in the future. Of course for a pet puppy buyer when you have poured your heart and soul into your dream puppy for two months and purchased from what you think is a registered ethical breeder it isn't quite that easy. My advice (and I have no experience with heart murmers) would be to take the puppy to a specialist and take the 'breeder' to the small claims court to recover all your expenses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoPaws Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) Yeah RSG I do not agree with the breeding of blue Staffords but as I have been told by the breeder and her 'friends' "you have only been showing dogs for 4 years what would you know" Sorry Camo, I thought the breeder was aware of the murmur I really think it is important to see a specialist to determine the cause of the problem. I think the $150-200 will be money well spent on deciding not only what is the best thing to do with your bub but also how to proceed in regards to the breeder. What a heartbreaking and expensive experience, I really do feel for you There are many experienced and ethical Stafford breeders, owners and showies on here who will only be too willing to provide you with help Edited July 13, 2011 by SnoPaws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Quite likely that you'll be dealing with allergies as well as the heart problem. Majority of blues are bred from dogs and bitches with poor conformation, so the OP may well be looking at a pup with poor conformation and some hip/elbow and patella issues to go along with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 My advice (and I have no experience with heart murmers) would be to take the puppy to a specialist and take the 'breeder' to the small claims court to recover all your expenses I think you will find case law doesn't support this. A puppy is under case law a good so the breeder has acted in good faith and offered a refund for the return of the puppy. If it was a toaster all would be well as our hearts wouldn't be involved and we would have no issue returning the faulty toaster but I don't believe you could keep the toaster and also expect a refund and I know you can't also claim vet bills As a breeder I would certainly offer at least a partial refund depending on the severity of the issue and I would let them keep the puppy but I don't think there is any legal obligation. It may be different in Aust but this is definitely the case in NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoPaws Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) Thanks Cowanbree I wasn't aware of that Not directed at Cowanbree but is it normal for a murmur to pop up between the age of 6 and 10 weeks or is it something the vet could have missed?? I suppose no-one can really answer those questions until the underlying cause is found? Edited July 13, 2011 by SnoPaws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstar Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Personly I would be returning the pup and getting the $2500 refund and I would be doing it now before spending any more money on it. I would then be taking that money and using half of it to purchase a quality pup (not blue) from an ethical breeder. The vet should of pick it up at 6 weeks, sometimes a very mild murmur can be missed but not a grade 3. With that grade the pup will most likely not have a quality of life or a long one. A 6 year old boy needs a pup that is going to be able to run and play with it, this pup will not be able to do that. Yes the pup will most likely be PTS and that maybe hard for you to think about at this stage but think of the heart ache that you and your family will go through most likely sooner than later when the pup dies, not to mention the out of pocket expences. It is also not fair to the pup to keep it alive as it will nevr have the quality of life that it deserves. Leanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 You are right Leanne, the vet should have picked it up. We picked up a murmer at the 8 week vacc and a 6 week vacc. I have to ask did the breeder supply the OP with a vet certificate stating that the puppy had been vet checked ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoL Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Our vet picked up a slight murmur at the 6wk check. I find it very hard to believe a grade 3 would have gone un-noticed. You have been taken for a ride. There is no way this pup can have a full and healthy life and it would be fairer on the pup if it was pts. Best it be done now than later when your 6yo has really gotten attached to it. Return the pup, get as much money back as possible and take your time to research ethical breeders who put colour at the very end of their wish list for the litter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordogs Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) Did I read that right $2500.00 for a Stafford and it has a problem * I am definitely in the wrong breed!!!!!!!!!!!!! :dropjaw: I had a puppy with a grade 3 murmur picked up at 6 weeks. My vet simply said that they would not vaccinate him. Good enough for me 2 weeks later he was PTS Edited November 14, 2011 by Fordogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimiss Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 It sounds like the breeder knew to tug on your heart strings.. Of course you'd get attached to the puppy after you've got him home etc... the breeder got the money, and got rid of the puppy who they obviously knew they would have had to pts. What a sad and difficult situation, I really feel for you. Sometimes the best option is not always the easiest, but as previously mentioned, the quality of life for the puppy wont be a good one, and the out of pocket expenses for this little pup would be quite large.. It's not always about the money, but sometimes you need to think about things logically. Good luck with your decisions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumof4girls Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 This is so very sad... Good luck with whatever you do.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I had a pup that had a terrible heart murmur at 4 weeks. Was stunted in growth and her bone development was slower than her siblings. Vet suggested waiting til 8 weeks and seeing if it improved and if not, maybe take her to specialist or discuss other options. At her 6 week vax, heart murmur not detectable and she had begin to grow and catch up to others. She is now certainly not a small pup and has overtaken some of her siblings. She also has a heart of steel and the most attitude of all. Glad I didn't euth at 4 weeks... but was prepared we may have to when young as soon as she had trouble being a normal pup. BUT, your pup's murmur has not improved and is prob going to be there 4 life. Being an active breed of dog, I would prob opt to get a refund and try again. Yes you miss them for a week or so, but you get over it. If you decide to keep him, be prepared you may have to spend a lot on treatments for life, testing, management of him. In hot weather it will be worse, if he gets excited. He may be unsuitable to run along with the kids on bikes, play fetch or soccor with the kids etc. Personally I wouldn't want to have a dog that may not be able to enjoy the life of a dog. I also would rather have a dog that is suitable for kids to enjoy rather than not be allowed to run him at the park or play fetch etc in case he keeps collapsing etc. The fact he has aready had a collapsing epidode, I would say it is a murmur bad enough to affect his activies for life. Choice is up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leema Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 My first border terrier, Mac, was sold to me with a heart murmur. The heart murmur was not detected at 6 weeks at vaccination. Though this dog is slow and quiet compared to my other dogs, I think this is part of his personality and not just his heart murmur. He heart murmur has been graded from 3 to 5 by various vets throughout his life. He will be 10 years old in January, and has been probably the cheapest dog I have ever owned in terms of vet expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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