What's Wrong With Horse?

[Baby Dragon]

If we can find a rescue who has space to take Horse, would you please allow him to go to them?

That way Horse can get the extra care he needs.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Baby Dragon

[persephone]

If we can find a rescue who has space to take Horse, would you please allow him to go to them?

Horse will get the extra care he needs, and you could apply for an assistance dog through a recognised program.

That's a great idea

getting an assistance dog thru a recognised program would mean you get one to suit you- and one that is healthy .You also have support from the organisation, I would think.

As it is - , if you are getting comments from the public - Horse should not be out & about - it will give you, and Assistance dogs in general, a bad name .

perhaps Horse does need special care - and as you come across as not having much money - then maybe there's someone out there who would be willing to do it .

[Nekhbet]

your dog is suffering nothing more then lack of calories - his diet is totally inadequate for a dog of his size. Why are you feeding tinned food and cat mince?

Get him a good dry food and raw meaty bones like lamb flaps for him to eat.

Your dog probably collapsed because he's starving.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Nekhbet

[Andisa]

He's 3 1/2.

FTGH ad on gumtree when he was 18months old. His last people got him as a lab x border collie, but he grew too big and started jumping their fence.

His diet slowly changed to what it is now because I was worried about his teeth, and the addition of more meals stopped the excessive poops and stopped him begging like he's never been fed before.

So you have had him for 2 yrs. What condition was he in when you got him?

I would think he is closer to being a Lab x BC too.

Bones clean teeth - not carrots.

You have got his diet so very wrong - he is begging for food like he has never been fed before because he is STARVING for more food.

Please surrender this dog - he needs better care.

I have tried to stay out of this thread because it is very disturbing - Horse 2008, please do what is right by this dog and hand him over to someone who can take better care of him. A dog in this condition will never be able to be a "balance support" dog - he is not strong enough for you needs. Can you get home help to provide you with the care you need?

[newfsie]

It looks and sounds like this dog needs some help and attention.....Is there no-one who can help/advise. Have you been to visit your vet? Are there any Rescue people who might be able to help you in finding a better feeding regime?

I feed four large dogs for less then $50.00/per week. It takes some effort and not by just opening a can/dry food. but it is possible. If you cannot afford to feed or look after your dog you may have to have help and re-home him.

As I said previously, I take on newfie rescues and many have been in shocking condition. I use the "satin Ball" recipe (google) to get them back in health, which is not cheap. We also feed lots of meaty bones, which adds both calories and is good for their teeth.

Have you thought of visiting some of the local Butchers and asking for off-cuts and bone.

I personally do not use dry food, but there are many good quality cheaper dry foods, as has been suggested to you here.

I have been involved with helping someone train a balance control dog......The ratio of owner dog was almost equal. the dog weighed 60 kg and the young lady was almost the same. Please consider this work might be too much for your dog and may lead to injury to either or both of you.

Please ask and get some help local to you.......For your dogs sake, before it is too late for him

[OSoSwift]

Your dog is very underweight, his bones do not stick out because he is short in loin. Many short in loin dogs do not have bones that stick out. One of my dogs is extremely short in loin and if anything he goes from fit to fat looking much faster then a longer loined dog, so I am sorry that excuse is rubbish.

He needs more food, his diet is extremely inadequate and lacking. It is much cheaper to feed a dry food than a tinned food which as mentioned is a whole lot of water and expensive water at that.

There is no way he should be in training for anything, he is in far too bad condition. He should be doing nothing until his condition and strength have returned.

Whilst there is the potential for this to be illness based the easiest way to check that theory is to feed him.

If you cannot afford to feed him properly then find him a home or rescue that can.

[stormie]

I'm going to be a bit different here and say that even though that diet is not ideal, it's still 1.5kg of food a day, made up of mince, meat and bones. Yes tinned food was mentioned, but even if thats 500g of tinned, the rest is still cat mince (which probably has more meat than dog mince), chicken mince and chicken necks.

Orbit is fed raw and as a 60kg dog, 1.5kg/day of fresh meat and bones sustains him pretty well. This is 2.5% of his body weight. Say the OP's dog is eating 1kg in mince and necks, this alone is already 3% of its body weight daily, then you have the egg and the tinned food on top of this.

Obviously it's entirely possible that the dog has a very fast metabolism, but with that much raw going in, I guess I wouldn't be expecting a huge output, which this dog has.

So yes, by all means look at changing the diet to something more balanced and with higher fat, but please get this dog really checked out thoroughly by a good vet, who can rule out health conditions which may be causing this.

[ish]

What is 'cat mince'? Is that canned cat food or minced meat of some variety? Perhaps its roo, which is very lean and wouldn't be helping to put weight on the dog

[Nekhbet]

cat mince is usually a little more of the better cuts of meat and some taurine added as well as calcium. Basically it's not as cheap as pet mince.

Still nothing that should be the basis of a dogs diet.

We're all going to love this one. Apparently the impound fees for my dogs are $4800, my solicitor (Legal Aid has refused to represent me) has said it's unlikely I'll be charged as I'm on a pension.

Another part of this that's good for me, the council ranger decided to report me to the RSPCA for starving my assistance dog. I have taken him to our vet at Lort Smith, the first time we were prescribed 1/3rd of his normal amount of food. I took him back in the last week, the vet agrees that because his ribcage extends so far along his body, his pelvic bones stick up. He can't put on much weight because his ribs enclose his stomach. I've been praised for giving him many meals, due to his 'barrel' ribs he's susceptible to bloat. Next court date is August 24th.

if the dog does have such a rare medical condition he should be on a special diet not cat mince and canned food. And how did he even pass as an assistance dog in his condition?

Edited July 11, 2011 by Nekhbet

[stormie]

cat mince is usually a little more of the better cuts of meat and some taurine added as well as calcium. Basically it's not as cheap as pet mince.

Still nothing that should be the basis of a dogs diet.

We're all going to love this one. Apparently the impound fees for my dogs are $4800, my solicitor (Legal Aid has refused to represent me) has said it's unlikely I'll be charged as I'm on a pension.

Another part of this that's good for me, the council ranger decided to report me to the RSPCA for starving my assistance dog. I have taken him to our vet at Lort Smith, the first time we were prescribed 1/3rd of his normal amount of food. I took him back in the last week, the vet agrees that because his ribcage extends so far along his body, his pelvic bones stick up. He can't put on much weight because his ribs enclose his stomach. I've been praised for giving him many meals, due to his 'barrel' ribs he's susceptible to bloat. Next court date is August 24th.

if the dog does have such a rare medical condition he should be on a special diet not cat mince and canned food. And how did he even pass as an assistance dog in his condition?

I'm still trying to understand how the rib cage effects digestion??? There is no way a rib cage can be so tiny it would compress the stomach and prevent it from expanding.

Any dog breed with a deep chest is at increased risk of bloat.

[persephone]

the vet agrees that because his ribcage extends so far along his body, his pelvic bones stick up.

I really need this explained to me ... why would a 'bigger rib cage ' make the pelvic bones stick up? In that photo he doesn't look oddly built, just very thin.

[stormie]

Horse2008 - have a look at this diagram. The pelvis is not effected by the length of the leg bones - so even if the leg bones are really long, this won't cause the pelvic bones to protrude anymore than they would in short legged dogs, simply because there just isn't that relationship between the two bones.

Also note the length of the rib cage. There are a few organs that tend to sit up inside the rib cage, with the stomach and liver being a couple. The rib cage could never be so narrow as to effect the expansion of the stomach so much, that a dog could not eat enough. Digestion doesn't just occur in the stomach - it's a big long process which starts in the stomach and then continues on through the intestines which are located in the abdomen. The heart and lung systems are bigger than the stomach and are inside the rib cage, so if they can fit adequately, so can the stomach.

[Horse2008]

Never even heard of Uncle Albers, but I'll ask around. For the people who've asked, both of the minces come from the pet shed, they're NOT tinned. The chicken mince and necks both seem to have more fat content then the cat mince, the neck bits are given as treats, I give them, not throw them to him because of his gulping habit.

I'm not bitching about his legs, I know they're unrelated. His loin is only 3 or 4 inches long, his ribs take up so much more of his body length then they should.

It's not that he can't eat enough, it's that he can't eat all he needs AT ONCE. If I feed him all his food in one meal, it will all come out the back end undigested meaning he can't fit it all in there at once. That's why he's fed many times per day, so he's given time to actually digest it.

As for the comment about his strength, he's still perfectly happy to jump my 6ft high back fence, but he'll only do that if I'm not in the yard with him. He adores scratching to the bottom of his clam shell sand pit, and when not in uniform and off lead, he'll ignore a bit of sandwich I offer to run after and say hello to another dog! He's NOT starved!

[OSoSwift]

Sorry but the length of his ribs impacting his ability to digest is a load of rubbish.

If he is deformed then he shouldn't be an assitance dog and shouldn't be working.

Unless you are a similar bodyweight to him you shouldn't not be using him to haul yourself around.

Yes he should have smaller meals if he has a barrel chest as huge meals can potential increase the risk of bloat.

Don't use that as an excuse to underfeed him. I have had two Dobes, one required a lot of food but she was always in perfect condition and never had bloat. The other did bloat but amazingly afterwards I managed to feed her an adequate diet and she too was in perfect condition.

The dog needs feeding a correct diet and should be immediately pulled from working as your assistance dog.

If you are continuing to make him work in the condition you are you should be charged

[Jumabaar]

Never even heard of Uncle Albers, but I'll ask around. For the people who've asked, both of the minces come from the pet shed, they're NOT tinned. The chicken mince and necks both seem to have more fat content then the cat mince, the neck bits are given as treats, I give them, not throw them to him because of his gulping habit.

I'm not bitching about his legs, I know they're unrelated. His loin is only 3 or 4 inches long, his ribs take up so much more of his body length then they should.

It's not that he can't eat enough, it's that he can't eat all he needs AT ONCE. If I feed him all his food in one meal, it will all come out the back end undigested meaning he can't fit it all in there at once. That's why he's fed many times per day, so he's given time to actually digest it.

As for the comment about his strength, he's still perfectly happy to jump my 6ft high back fence, but he'll only do that if I'm not in the yard with him. He adores scratching to the bottom of his clam shell sand pit, and when not in uniform and off lead, he'll ignore a bit of sandwich I offer to run after and say hello to another dog! He's NOT starved!

If your not willing to change your dogs diet, and do not believe he CAN put on weight why did you come in here? You APPARENTLY already have an answer as to Horse's problem (albeit not one that is really anatomically possible, but thats not my problem) so why bother us about it?

And it is wonderful he can jump a 6ft fence, must be handy for when you need assistance to climb one. I just hope that he doesn't faint from lack of calories when he is pulling you over.....

[Andisa]

Never even heard of Uncle Albers, but I'll ask around. For the people who've asked, both of the minces come from the pet shed, they're NOT tinned. The chicken mince and necks both seem to have more fat content then the cat mince, the neck bits are given as treats, I give them, not throw them to him because of his gulping habit.

I'm not bitching about his legs, I know they're unrelated. His loin is only 3 or 4 inches long, his ribs take up so much more of his body length then they should.

It's not that he can't eat enough, it's that he can't eat all he needs AT ONCE. If I feed him all his food in one meal, it will all come out the back end undigested meaning he can't fit it all in there at once. That's why he's fed many times per day, so he's given time to actually digest it.

As for the comment about his strength, he's still perfectly happy to jump my 6ft high back fence, but he'll only do that if I'm not in the yard with him. He adores scratching to the bottom of his clam shell sand pit, and when not in uniform and off lead, he'll ignore a bit of sandwich I offer to run after and say hello to another dog! He's NOT starved!

Most produce stores will stock uncle albers dog food.

Are you classing teats as meals - they are not the same. He needs meals..

He may not gulp all the time if he is fed properly. Years ago I bought a young Dobermann who was in similar condition - even when I got the weight on her she still ate every meal like it was her last - a life time of bad habits may be hard to break - but if you put his meals in a special gulpers food bowl he will have to slow down to eat it.

The main bolded part has already been explained to you, no need to keep at it. However don't make excuses for lack of food. You need to see how a healthy Lab eats to see what is considered normal.

As for the last bit - it seems you are the only one to have that opinion.

When you started this thread you asked what is wrong with Horse - when all who have posted say the same thing then perhaps it is time to reconsider that your views are wrong.

[aussielover]

He is either starved or has a serious medical problem you should be investigating.

I really doubt any vet would be happy with his condition.

If your vet is happy with the way he looks, find a new one.

If you are convinced the diet you are giving him is adequate (which frankly, I am not and neither are most people who commented here), TAKE HIM TO A VET and get the cause investigated!!!!

You seriously cannot expect to work poor Horse in that condition?

As Persephone said before, you are giving assistance dogs a bad name, if you choose to work him in that condition. He is unwell and perhaps unsuited to this sort of work. Dogs with any sort of medical problem are not suitable to be assistance dogs. My puppy was rejected from Guide Dogs for having something as seemingly minor as allergies and itch. Your dog has actually passed out due to unknown causes at the moment and is in poor body condition. That would be more than enough for most organisations to at least rest him, if not pull him from work.

As was suggested before, contact an assistance dog organisation who may be able to provide you with a more suitable dog.

I commend you for coming here and asking for help, but now is the time to start implementing some of the feedback you have received, not becoming defensive.

[Horse2008]

I am not making him work at all until we get the blood test results back, on Friday.

Who says he 'hauls' me anywhere? He helps me maintain my balance when I stand, helps me get back in my wheelchair if I fall on the ground, he helps cut down the frequency of my panic attacks(I was assaulted and mugged a few years ago) and he guides me home after a panic attack. All of this requires more brain work then physical work.

How can anyone think many small meals=underfeeding him? he eats 1.5kgs of food a day!!

Thanks for the suggestion of Uncle Alber. Would mixing the egg with the salmon for maybe 1/2 meals daily be good?

[Horse2008]

Snook, Horse is a dog, not a horse. He doesn't have the same bone structure. My assist dog program and I agree, he is never to be expected to be leaned on, that would hurt him. I don't have a problem bearing my own weight, it's my leg movements and my balance that are the problem. If I needed something to lean on, I'd use a walking stick.

[Horse2008]

-Well, you did accuse me of leaning on him. Even for a perfectly healthy dog that'd be a bad idea.

I've spent the last 20mins trying to give him yoghurt, first refusal of food I've seen from him, I even offered it off my spoon, he turned his head and started cleaning the cat with drool.

I've ordered 2 huge bags of Uncle Alber, to be delivered on Thursday. Horse can finish the chicken mince with egg mix, my rats can have the tinned food and the cats can have the mince.

Is it ok if I still give him a carrot and chook necks as treats/stuff to chew on?