Socialising Your Dog

[missmoo]

I am interested in hearing some opinions....can you OVER socialise your dog? If yes/no why?

..I dont mean incorrect/poor/under socialisation or over stimulating or had a bad experience...I am talking about a dog that has had foundation socialisation training/experiences during the pups critical period, who has no reactivity issues and is "happy" to meet new dogs and ppl etc,

Please note this is purely for discussion purposes and any and all opinions on this topic are welcome...

Edited July 7, 2011 by missmoo

[fuzzy82]

Nope, I don't think you can. However, I think most people who set out to socialise their dogs think that socialising with other dogs is the most important thing in the world, and neglect to socialise the dog with humans. You can definitely socialise too much with other dogs, and get a dog obsessed dog.

I don't really care about socialising my dogs with other dogs, I put much more effort into exposing them to new environments and people. I did socialise them with dogs as well, but not just letting them play with other dogs. I also taught them early on that they should still be able to focus on me and do some work even though there are other dogs around, and THEN they can play.

My goal in socialising them with other dogs was that they will be friendly when approached and show the proper social skills. I don't care if they don't want to play with every other dog they see. I don't take them to dog parks and don't deliberately socialise them with other dogs, but in training class they have to deal with being approached and being around other dogs. Even when dealing with people all I expect is for them to be tolerant. One of them looooved all humans, and the other is aloof around strangers.

So yes, you can socialise too much with other dogs, and no, you can't socialise too much with people and exposing them to the world etc.

[huski]

If it's done properly you can't over socialise.

IMO you CAN socialise your dog to have too high a value for things other than you and the rewards you have i.e. other dogs etc.

[Agility Dogs]

If it's done properly you can't over socialise.

IMO you CAN socialise your dog to have too high a value for things other than you and the rewards you have i.e. other dogs etc.

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[Oscar (AmBull)]

Nope, I don't think you can. However, I think most people who set out to socialise their dogs think that socialising with other dogs is the most important thing in the world, and neglect to socialise the dog with humans. You can definitely socialise too much with other dogs, and get a dog obsessed dog.

I don't really care about socialising my dogs with other dogs, I put much more effort into exposing them to new environments and people. I did socialise them with dogs as well, but not just letting them play with other dogs. I also taught them early on that they should still be able to focus on me and do some work even though there are other dogs around, and THEN they can play.

So yes, you can socialise too much with other dogs, and no, you can't socialise too much with people and exposing them to the world etc.

I WISH this advice was given to me. We did exactly that over socialised Oscar with other dogs, we did not put nearly as much effort into appropriate play and gaining focus. We were told to death to socialise him with other dogs due to his breed so that he would not become aggressive, well months later we didn't have an aggressive dog... but a very overexcited, dog focused dog who was very hard to control and impossible to gain focus from when other dogs were around. We will do it VERY differently when we get another puppy as it has taken us literally months to reverse this and it still isn't 100% there, it has improved dramatically, however the lack of focus and self control are still issues.

I think the main aim of socialisation should be lots of new positive experiences/environments with the intention for the dog to look at you for their cue. Play and dog social skills are very important, as is knowing when to play, how to control the play and what levels of excitement a dog should display around other dogs, so is knowing when to ignore dogs and having the ability to do so.

[Agility Dogs]

I think it depends on what you mean by socialisation, but using my definition - NO, you cannot socialise your dog enough.

To me this means getting them into new situations and helping them understand how to react appropriately if they need that help. People, surfaces, noises, spaces, wheelchairs, skateboards, shopping trolleys, traffic lights, dogs, you name it, I want them to be able to cope with it, but keep me at the centre of their world.

There is also a reason that Dogs are at the bottom of the list. I don't want them interested in other dogs unless I let them go and play and this is only ever with other dogs I know and trust. I've seen too many 'friendly' dogs go from friendly to not quite so friendly in the blink of an eye. My dogs just need to be able to work around other dogs and know that they are not nearly as cool as whatever it is we happen to be doing.

[wuffles]

I think it depends on the dog and the owner but generally no.

I didn't neutralise my girl yet she is extremely focused on me. I exposed her to lots and lots and lots of other dogs in different environments... friends' houses, puppy school, dog parks, local dog groups, dog club, plus she has my older dog. She adores other dogs and loves to play but I do not have issues with her running off to play or being distracted during training classes. I can be very confident in her reactions because we rarely encounter a situation that is 'new' anymore.

[**Super_Dogs**]

Nope, I don't think you can. However, I think most people who set out to socialise their dogs think that socialising with other dogs is the most important thing in the world, and neglect to socialise the dog with humans. You can definitely socialise too much with other dogs, and get a dog obsessed dog.

I don't really care about socialising my dogs with other dogs, I put much more effort into exposing them to new environments and people. I did socialise them with dogs as well, but not just letting them play with other dogs. I also taught them early on that they should still be able to focus on me and do some work even though there are other dogs around, and THEN they can play.

My goal in socialising them with other dogs was that they will be friendly when approached and show the proper social skills. I don't care if they don't want to play with every other dog they see. I don't take them to dog parks and don't deliberately socialise them with other dogs, but in training class they have to deal with being approached and being around other dogs. Even when dealing with people all I expect is for them to be tolerant. One of them looooved all humans, and the other is aloof around strangers.

So yes, you can socialise too much with other dogs, and no, you can't socialise too much with people and exposing them to the world etc.

I agree with fuzzy82.

I want my dogs to have high value for me - not other dogs or the environment. Think how frequently someone says when training there dog "they do if perfectly at home".

I don't take my dogs to the dog park. I have 4 dogs at home - so they plently of opportunity to play at home. I socialise them when they are young by taking them to family/friends places with other dogs and take them to a training class where they meet many other dogs. I want them to be friendly when approaching or approached by other dogs and do not want them to want to play with the dogs they meet. When they have said a nice hello to another dog for a minute that is it the focus is on me. The beauty of dog training class is they are also meeting lots of different people!! I think it is important to remember to socialise your dog with children (if you don't have them). I did not do this with my first dog as at that time I did not know alot of people with children, and when she did meet a child and baby for the first time she was obsessed!!!

[Inevitablue]

I notice how many people who say that you shouldn't allow your dog to socialize with other dogs (and 'socialising' doesn't always mean a free for all at the park) have more than 1 dog.

Aside from the competition aspect of 100% handler focus, I think it is very important for a dog to learn social skills amongst it's own kind, unless people intend on never allowing the dog contact with others. We take an 8week old puppy and halt all learning of it's own kind at that age?

Multiple dog homes don't have this issue. The dogs learn these skills.

Ok, there of course is the initial excitement when the 'only child' pup sees another dog, but as long as that it managed in the beginning the dogs will settle down and the interaction will be productive. However, doing these interactions only once every few weeks does not suffice. The excitement will take forever to reduce.

If anyone asks me how they should raise their 'only child' pup I suggest finding a few friends who have ideal dogs (those with established social skills, or at the least not fear aggressive or insecure dominant) and have regular time with them, time enough that the dogs learn to relax around each other. Not a session at the park where the owners are off chatting or on the phone, and not removing the dogs when still on a high.

Interspersing the dogs interaction with control base training such as some recalls, stays and waits teaches the dog to switch back it's focus. Also allows the dog to view the owner as more satisfying than the other dogs. With them my pup gets just play, but with me she gets play, pack drive satisfaction (go hide behind a tree and let the dog panic just a little) and food.

Ideally I want a dog that is relaxed around other dogs, confident they can effectively communicate with other dogs and one that thinks seeing other dogs is 'old hat'.

So I think you can never over socialize your dog to others, infact IMO many times the problem lies in the dogs not getting enough time with other dogs to get past the excitement and just learn to relax around others. These thoughts are not for raising a competition dog but one who is going to fit well into general society.

[**Super_Dogs**]

So I think you can never over socialize your dog to others, infact IMO many times the problem lies in the dogs not getting enough time with other dogs to get past the excitement and just learn to relax around others. These thoughts are not for raising a competition dog but one who is going to fit well into general society.

I have seen this. Dogs, who are an only dog, gets sooo excited when they get to play with another dog they they do not know when to stop.

[Agility Dogs]

So I think you can never over socialize your dog to others, infact IMO many times the problem lies in the dogs not getting enough time with other dogs to get past the excitement and just learn to relax around others. These thoughts are not for raising a competition dog but one who is going to fit well into general society.

I have seen this. Dogs, who are an only dog, gets sooo excited when they get to play with another dog they they do not know when to stop.

What you say makes sense, but is quite foreign to me. I have a multi dog house hold. When I did have just the one dog it was a dog who is so disinterested in other dogs they may as well not exist.

I would definitely have to rethink if we were an only dog household with my current pup though. She is a social butterfly. Fortunately she learned her manners very early on and has had them reinforced since joining our pack.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: This is an old thread that may help...

[missmoo]

K9: This is an old thread that may help...

thanks Steve,

I put the question out there as I have had a long and in depth discussion with another trainer on this very topic and was curious on other ppls opinions as well.

[poodlefan]

If it's done properly you can't over socialise.

IMO you CAN socialise your dog to have too high a value for things other than you and the rewards you have i.e. other dogs etc.

this

Ditto.

[OSoSwift]

My idea of correctly socialised is been everywhere seen everything, met lots of people but only to great in a calm manner, ie new people are not a huge excitement thing.

Also yes they meet other dogs and mine go to PPS, but from a young age they are trained around outher dogs, and work very closely but they don't get off to play with them. Training time is not play time it is work time, so I guess I neutraliase them to other dogs in that once they are around 16 weeks they only play with my other dogs.

If I had an only dog I may find a companion they would play with, but haven't had just one dog for a long time.

Mine enevr go for play dates. Part of that is Lewis is very breedist and only likes playing with Whippets, Rommi will play with most dogs given a chance but is very focussed on me.

[huski]

I notice how many people who say that you shouldn't allow your dog to socialize with other dogs (and 'socialising' doesn't always mean a free for all at the park) have more than 1 dog.

I don't see anyone saying that your dog should never be socialised with other dogs, when I get my new puppy she will be around other dogs all the time but the key for me is that the focus will be on teaching her that they aren't something overly exciting, valuable or rewarding.

No puppy that I bring into my home will be run with my adult dogs either.

So I think you can never over socialize your dog to others, infact IMO many times the problem lies in the dogs not getting enough time with other dogs to get past the excitement and just learn to relax around others. These thoughts are not for raising a competition dog but one who is going to fit well into general society.

I think that may be true in some cases but it's not always the case.

I can tell you right now that the dogs in my classes that are the most distracted around other dogs and are coming to obedience because the owner can no longer control their excitement around other dogs, are dogs that have been allowed to develop too high a value for other dogs and it has a higher value for play with other dogs than it does for the owner. It's taken to the dog park daily, was allowed to play with every dog it came across as a puppy and young dog and now expects that the sight of another dog = time to play.

I can't stress enough to the owners in my classes that socialisation with other dogs should be about teaching your puppy that yep, that's another dog, and yep you can greet it if and when I say it's ok to, but other dogs will never be as exciting as what I offer.

Edited July 8, 2011 by huski

[OSoSwift]

I can't stress enough to the owners in my classes that socialisation with other dogs should be about teaching your puppy that yep, that's another dog, and yep you can greet it if and when I say it's ok to, but other dogs will never be as exciting as what I offer.

Wholeheartly agree with this. Yep thats a dog - wow look what I have or how fun I can be.

[Agility Dogs]

I notice how many people who say that you shouldn't allow your dog to socialize with other dogs (and 'socialising' doesn't always mean a free for all at the park) have more than 1 dog.

I don't see anyone saying that your dog should never be socialised with other dogs, when I get my new puppy she will be around other dogs all the time but the key for me is that the focus will be on teaching her that they aren't something overly exciting, valuable or rewarding.

No puppy that I bring into my home will be run with my adult dogs either.

Why do you keep typing what I'm thinking?

My puppy was crated and kept seperate from my two older dogs until she was about 6 months old. During that time she met hundreds of other dogs, but always on my terms. From the age of 4 months (she came to live with us at 3 months) she could work around other dogs without having to run off and visit. Now at 14 months she loves nothing more than to play with other dogs and is very appropriate in how she does it.

I don't think you need to constantly run your dogs with other dogs for them to be well socialised. It's all about blanace and making sure that they are able to achieve the criteria you set them - whatever that may be.

For some (like me) that will mean the absolute ability to either ignore or come away from any other excitement that might be going on around them, for others it might be that they will (eventually?) come when they are called at the dog park. For others it might just mean that they don't try and eat other dogs when you walk past them in the street.

At the end of the day, if you are happy with your dog's abilities then as long as you aren't annoying/impacting on others then it doesn't matter to anyone else.

To me dog/dog socialisation is only about 5% of what socialising a dog is about. Of FAR more importance is their general ability to cope with siutations they are likely to find themselves in.

[mish13]

No puppy that I bring into my home will be run with my adult dogs either.

I would be interested to know why you say that and also how long would you keep that up for?

[Agility Dogs]

No puppy that I bring into my home will be run with my adult dogs either.

I would be interested to know why you say that and also how long would you keep that up for?

For me there are 3 reasons.

1. I don't want the pup risking injury because of rough play when I'm not around.

2. I want the pup to see me as the primary source of reinforcement in its life.

3. I don't want the pup to be dependent on the other two dogs.

I keep it up for as long as it takes for the puppy to look to me before it does the other two dogs. In the case of the current pup it was about 3 months. I know some people who still aren't letting their young dogs run with their older ones 11 months down the track.

This isn't to say that they don't interact with the other dogs or other dogs in general. Just that they don't have free rein when I'm not home.

Not for everyone, but for me it has been very effective. Like I said in my previous post, I have a drivey 14 month old puppy who is able to work faultlessly around numerous other dogs and has been able to do so since about 6 months of age.