2on 2 Off Contact Proofing

[**Super_Dogs**]

Hi,

I am currently working with my dog proofing 2on 2off for contacts.

She is doing great.....but is alittle slow at getting into position. We are praticing on a board at home, but she is even slower on the actual equipment. She is not a super speedy dog on the agility course so I want to speed this up.

Does anyone know how I can get her into position (2on 2off) quicker????

Thanks

Edited July 6, 2011 by buddy1

[Kavik]

How did you train this initially? Did you use a target?

[**Super_Dogs**]

How did you train this initially? Did you use a target?

No I did not use a target. She was initially trained 2 on 2 off in a down position. On the equipment this is more like a sit at the end. She knows the criteria and is reliable getting into it - but she is slow moving into the position.

[Kavik]

How do you reward her? Can she do it independent of your body position? How did you teach the down on the end?

[**Super_Dogs**]

How do you reward her? Can she do it independent of your body position? How did you teach the down on the end?

I reward her 2 different ways. I reward her while she is in the 2on 2 off position on the plank or, if I am in front of her I release her and then reward her.

She can get into the position wherever I am - distance, in front or behind - this is what we have been working on.

She was taught the 2on 2off through shaping. Alot of patients was required here!!!

[Kavik]

Where/when does she slow down? Is the whole obstacle slow or only near the end?

[**Super_Dogs**]

Where/when does she slow down? Is the whole obstacle slow or only near the end?

She speeds onto contact obstacles. She loves the dogwalk - it is her favourite!

On a dog walk she is slow at the end when she gets into position (2on 2 off). So she gets to the end, then slowly crouches down. On an A Frame she is slow as soon as she gets over the top.

[The Spotted Devil]

From what you've said it's not a fear issue so.....I would release her to a bait plate (I run with my dog, whooping in excitement ) OR throw food (e.g. easy to see cheese cube) as soon as she hits the criteria. You can also do some prep work for this like the 2 food game or releasing to a bait plate as soon she pulls on the collar (so she is driving towards the plate). My Dally has gone quite nuts with this technique and I had him pulling on the collar towards the see-saw which he has some issues with just so he could get in 2o/2o and be released to the bait plate. Then I added jumps either side and extended the sequence.

[DeltaCharlie]

When you were rewarding her for being in position (earlier in your training) how fast was she getting into position? It sounds almost as though she doesn't realise that the idea is to get into that position as quickly as she can because she has been rewarded for getting into it at her own pace.

Even in the early stages of training (my 12month old boy is only just working with a contact plank on the ground) I won't reward unless they get into the position quickly. Provided they understand the position to begin with of course. I just say "too slow", rev them up a bit and ask for it again. If they are faster then they get the reward, otherwise we try it for a third time. If they are still slow the third time they are put away for a few minutes to think about it. Or in our case, we have plenty of other dogs so they can sit and watch someone else have a few turns. This way they actually gain an understanding that the criteria is to do the position quickly, not just get into it at your own leisure. When you then move to backchaining along the downramp etc you need to maintain the expectation of speed. Use whatever reward you can think of that will get the most out of your dog and use that to rev them up beforehand. Make them REALLY want that reward.

I think it could well pay to take a few steps back to reteach the position how YOU want it performed. It will pay off in the long run.

[**Super_Dogs**]

Thanks so much - some great ideas here

The Spotted Devil - What is the 2 food game? It sounds interesting. Can you refer me to some info I can find out about this?

Delta Charlie - I think you hit the nail on the head. I was rewarding her for getting into position - even if she was slow. She knows the position - that is not the problem. I now need to increase my criteria to get into position quickly and only reward this.

[Agility Dogs]

Thanks so much - some great ideas here

The Spotted Devil - What is the 2 food game? It sounds interesting. Can you refer me to some info I can find out about this?

Delta Charlie - I think you hit the nail on the head. I was rewarding her for getting into position - even if she was slow. She knows the position - that is not the problem. I now need to increase my criteria to get into position quickly and only reward this.

This is in addition to what DC said, as I've had to fix both problems.

Another issue I found with my dogs is that as their rear end awareness improved so did their ability on contacts. ie: Because they know where their bum is they are able to manage their body more effectively. My pup (now 14 months) has done a lot of work on this stuff since she came to live with us at 3 months and now has better contacts that the other two (advanced level dogs) by a mile and she has only been on them for about a month.

While you are revisiting criteria it might be worth doing some more rear end exercises to help them along.

[The Spotted Devil]

2 food game is great for getting dogs to perform something FAST!

I like to use easy to see treats like cheese cubes as mentioned. So - very simple - throw food to your left, dog chases, eats food, looks up (call name if necessary) and throw food to your right. Repeat a few times so they are really revved up and running hard back and forth. Then you can ask for a sit or a drop as they run towards you - the second they get the position toss food in the direction they are headed and tell them to "get it". Once they understand the game you can start getting fussy about how long it takes them to drop or sit. If they take too long just an 'ah well, try again!' - don't berate them - this is a game Half the fun is chasing the reward so it gets them really excited BUT they learn that the faster they get into position the more quickly they get to chase the food again. It's not about duration training so don't wait to throw the reward. You'll stuff up your timing a bit because it's a fast game but don't worry too much as you'll both get better! If you play the game on the flat she might adapt to it better on the dog walk - use a plank so you're just working on the speed to get into position. Have fun!

[Kavik]

I'm also trying to fix this problem (sometimes my boy will stop 4on instead) so was trying to see if the reasons were similar

I am going back to basics - get into position fast on a plank on voice command and be exactly the position I want (I want a pounce into position both front feet at the same time). Kaos isn't as independent as I would like - doesn't like going ahead of me when I am stationary or slowing down, so I am working on that on the plank. He is also better on one side. We are getting there, but still a way to go with his understanding of what I want. I reward with food in position and sometimes release to thrown food and sometimes release to a toy to reward focus forward.

[**Super_Dogs**]

I'm also trying to fix this problem (sometimes my boy will stop 4on instead) so was trying to see if the reasons were similar

Now you say that........I also have the 4on problems. Sometimes 2on 2off and sometimes 4on. If she is 4 on - she is right on the end though. Do you think this really matters? I have never really worried as the idea is to stop at the end.......but I am now thinking it may be a problem.

[Kavik]

For training purposes - clarity and understanding - it matters to me where he stops. If he stops 4on he doesn't really understand his position.

This video shows what he sometimes does.

[**Super_Dogs**]

I think I am going to go back and reteach the position. Will be worth it in the long run!

I am also going to try the 2 food game.