raineth Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 The way I read the Rules the reason for Crosses not being eligable for the Sporting Register is thay cannot be registered with one of the Kindred associations Eg Working Kelpie Association. If an Associate registered dog wants to do Herding then they do the test and go onto the Associate Register Herding. How could I register my rescue dog Digby, who is 60 kg of mastiff muscle with the working Kelpie association My other rescue dog is a non-pedigree Great Dane so I would imagine having trouble registering her with a working dog association. I love my rescue dogs and will be having more in the future. Lucky I'm not in QLD! Quite simply you cannot because they are not working Kelpies or a working breed, The same as if you had a Peddigree Great Dane you couldn't enter a Chihuahua club show it's not the right breed. The Working dog associations produce Pedigrees for their members who breed Kelpies for example, from Working Lines. An Associate registered dog can compete in everything a Sporting Registered dog can except for Herding unless they go the step further. hmm I think I missed your point and you've missed mine I just think its a real shame that you can only register two associates when your first join then none thereafter. Generally I find that people who love their pedigree dogs also strongly support ownership of rescue dogs. But this rule would act to dissuade some people from owning a rescue dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 It does stop people registering heaps of oodles though which is not a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 It does stop people registering heaps of oodles though which is not a bad thing. But if people with oodles want to train their dogs and compete with their dogs, I think that should be encouraged rather than disallowed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 It does stop people registering heaps of oodles though which is not a bad thing. I have an oodle that I got from a shelter, and I also have a JRT x from a shelter. I had hoped to trial with both of them, but if I register them it means I can never again compete with a shelter dog, and I WAS planning on getting shelter dogs in the future as well. But now it seems the options are to either get a shelter dog, OR be able to trial. How is that fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 It does stop people registering heaps of oodles though which is not a bad thing. I understand why Oodlers shouldn't be permitted to show/breed etc but I don't see anything wrong with someone with a crossbreed (oodle or not), participating in dog sports like obedience, agility, fly ball etc. I know a lot of people with crossbreeds who compete and do quite well - ranging from Kelpie crosses through to Labrador/Poodles, Cavalier King Charles/Poodles etc ... If people are willing to put in the hard work it takes to progress in these sports, I don't see why there is any problem with them participating - I thought training was always a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 It does stop people registering heaps of oodles though which is not a bad thing. I have an oodle that I got from a shelter, and I also have a JRT x from a shelter. I had hoped to trial with both of them, but if I register them it means I can never again compete with a shelter dog, and I WAS planning on getting shelter dogs in the future as well. But now it seems the options are to either get a shelter dog, OR be able to trial. How is that fair? Or move to a more enlightened State. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 It does stop people registering heaps of oodles though which is not a bad thing. I have an oodle that I got from a shelter, and I also have a JRT x from a shelter. I had hoped to trial with both of them, but if I register them it means I can never again compete with a shelter dog, and I WAS planning on getting shelter dogs in the future as well. But now it seems the options are to either get a shelter dog, OR be able to trial. How is that fair? I already said that it sucks for rescue people and that there should be a clause in there for them. It doesn't suck for people that buy multiple dogs from puppy farms though. Or are you ok with people buying and registering oodle after oodle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 At least they have to be desexed Allowing them to compete, does however serve as a form of promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 It does stop people registering heaps of oodles though which is not a bad thing. I understand why Oodlers shouldn't be permitted to show/breed etc but I don't see anything wrong with someone with a crossbreed (oodle or not), participating in dog sports like obedience, agility, fly ball etc. I know a lot of people with crossbreeds who compete and do quite well - ranging from Kelpie crosses through to Labrador/Poodles, Cavalier King Charles/Poodles etc ... If people are willing to put in the hard work it takes to progress in these sports, I don't see why there is any problem with them participating - I thought training was always a good thing. The sports are run by the Kennel club. Why would the Kennel club want to promote cross bred dogs? You don't have to compete to train your dog either. I'm finding this a rather weird view point considering the aims of this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 At least they have to be desexed Allowing them to compete, does however serve as a form of promotion. I don't compete with either of my dogs yet but I have one purebred WKC-registered Kelpie and a Kelpie/Border Collie crossbreed - it's possible that one day we'll participate - the Associate register here in the ACT seems pretty enlightened. I don't really see it as a 'promotion'. I'd assume the the majority of competitors are owners of purebreds and that the majority of spectators are relatives/friends of those owners of purebreds. I doubt anyone goes to an agility competition and decides that they want to buy a Kablooeypollywollydoodle on the basis of that dog's performance that day. I seriously doubt that the target audience of Oodle-Makers is dog sport venues ... Also, some of the crossbreeds/oodles are actually very good at dog sports, so from a competitor perspective, if a competitor really wants to better himself/herself, presumably he/she wants to participate in a competition pool that is as wide as it can be and comprised of the best possible talent. No point winning just because a better dog might have been excluded on the basis of a technicality. It seems better to let them all compete and let the best dogs and handlers win ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 The sports are run by the Kennel club. Why would the Kennel club want to promote cross bred dogs? You don't have to compete to train your dog either. I'm finding this a rather weird view point considering the aims of this forum. I think so, too but many people who compete tell me that it's not until you face the tension/stress of competition that you really better the level of your training to a high level. At present, I'm happy to train at the club and not compete, but I like the idea that ACT offers the flexibility to permit my doggies to compete one day if it is appropriate. I am not trying to argue with you, I completely understand the antipathy held towards Crossbreeds and Oodles but from a dog sport perspective, I really think that the breed should be quite irrelevant and that at the end of the day, the criteria should be about ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I think so, too but many people who compete tell me that it's not until you face the tension/stress of competition that you really better the level of your training to a high level. At present, I'm happy to train at the club and not compete, but I like the idea that ACT offers the flexibility to permit my doggies to compete one day if it is appropriate. I am not trying to argue with you, I completely understand the antipathy held towards Crossbreeds and Oodles but from a dog sport perspective, I really think that the breed should be quite irrelevant and that at the end of the day, the criteria should be about ability. What antipathy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 What antipathy? i.e. I understand why people on a purebred forum don't like Oodles/Crossbreeds (as discussed above), I was just trying to look at it from a dogsports point of view when the breed shouldn't really be relevant anymore so long as the dog is desexed etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 What antipathy? i.e. I understand why people on a purebred forum don't like Oodles/Crossbreeds (as discussed above), I was just trying to look at it from a dogsports point of view when the breed shouldn't really be relevant anymore so long as the dog is desexed etc. It's not the dogs most don't like but the people and the process that produces them. Breed isn't relevant for obedience and agility in any state but Qld... unless its a restricted breed trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 (edited) It's not the dogs most don't like but the people and the process that produces them. Breed isn't relevant for obedience and agility in any state but Qld... unless its a restricted breed trial. I am aware of that, but there were comments above which implied that it was a good thing that crossbreeds were excluded in Queensland. As you know, I'm in ACT so none of that matters anyway. Also I don't compete anyway, so I will shut up now. I had been so good about staying out of these threads. ETA: Also, I am not talking about people wanting the benefit of support from registered breeders or Kennel clubs etc. I'm just saying that conceptually, it seems fair that dogs should be able to participate in dog sports regardless of breed ... Edited July 6, 2011 by koalathebear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 It does stop people registering heaps of oodles though which is not a bad thing. I have an oodle that I got from a shelter, and I also have a JRT x from a shelter. I had hoped to trial with both of them, but if I register them it means I can never again compete with a shelter dog, and I WAS planning on getting shelter dogs in the future as well. But now it seems the options are to either get a shelter dog, OR be able to trial. How is that fair? I already said that it sucks for rescue people and that there should be a clause in there for them. It doesn't suck for people that buy multiple dogs from puppy farms though. Or are you ok with people buying and registering oodle after oodle? Of course I don't support BYB's, but to go on the register at least they have to be desexed. So if someone did buy from a BYB and then decided to put all that effort into training to the point where they want to compete with their dog instead of breeding it, then I see nothing wrong with that. Being able to register the dog means they can never breed it, AND it means they are putting effort into training. How is that a bad thing? In fact, if these people were encouraged to register their dogs, there would be fewer BYB's... And even if they did buy from a BYB due to ignorance, and then realised their mistake and then decided they wanted to properly train their dog and trial, is it fair to forever penalise them for the original mistake by telling them their dog can't be registered?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 And even if they did buy from a BYB due to ignorance, and then realised their mistake and then decided they wanted to properly train their dog and trial, is it fair to forever penalise them for the original mistake by telling them their dog can't be registered?? They get two chances to learn from their "mistake" in Qld now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I know of many people that have started with an associate dog and gone on to get a registered pedigree. WA you can register as many associate dogs as you like, they have to be desexed as with anywhere else. I think allowing more people to register and compete with associate dogs makes it more likely they will then buy a registered pedigree dogs. Two friends have just done exactly this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I know of many people that have started with an associate dog and gone on to get a registered pedigree. WA you can register as many associate dogs as you like, they have to be desexed as with anywhere else. I think allowing more people to register and compete with associate dogs makes it more likely they will then buy a registered pedigree dogs. Two friends have just done exactly this! That's a pretty common result at my dog club too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 The way I read the Rules the reason for Crosses not being eligable for the Sporting Register is thay cannot be registered with one of the Kindred associations Eg Working Kelpie Association. If an Associate registered dog wants to do Herding then they do the test and go onto the Associate Register Herding. How could I register my rescue dog Digby, who is 60 kg of mastiff muscle with the working Kelpie association My other rescue dog is a non-pedigree Great Dane so I would imagine having trouble registering her with a working dog association. I love my rescue dogs and will be having more in the future. Lucky I'm not in QLD! Quite simply you cannot because they are not working Kelpies or a working breed, The same as if you had a Peddigree Great Dane you couldn't enter a Chihuahua club show it's not the right breed. The Working dog associations produce Pedigrees for their members who breed Kelpies for example, from Working Lines. An Associate registered dog can compete in everything a Sporting Registered dog can except for Herding unless they go the step further. An associate register dog can compete in Herding provided it is an apparent mix of eligable herding breeds The wording of the rules is MIXED BREEDSMixed breeds may be accepted provided they are a mix or apparent mix of Herding breeds. These must be Associate Registered Dogs . They shouldn't have to do a test other than the Herding Instinct Test that every dog who competes in herding must do. The tricky part comes in assessing what the dogs are.Some of the working dog registries (IE the sheepdog workers associations) do accept crossbreeds but they must be crosses of the breeds they allow to compete in their trials such as kelpie x border collies. These are usually registered as station bred or similar without a pedigree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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