Is This Reasonable Behaviour? Bit Of A Rant...

[sas]

I would have told her to piss off.

[wuffles]

I am just saying that people need to exercise their own judgement based on common sense. To me, it is common sense not to let your dog run up to unknown dogs in public, just as it is common sense to ask the current occupants of an area you are about to enter.

[conztruct]

Doesn't sound like a very nice lady, a bit of a mini-hitler - I would have completely avoided any discussion with her because you're never going to be right no matter how logical, justified or right you are.

Having said that though - I've never taken my dogs to a dog park because while my intentions may be fine and I have control over my dogs, and while others should have control over theirs, I have no confidence in relying on what people should be doing. Unfortunately, even if you are completely in the right, it's cold comfort if there's an incident.

Looking at what was said, some of it is at least good sense (removing the what "should" happen with everyone controlling their dogs) to avoid issues with unpredictable dogs and owners. I'd try and strip away the "attitude" and unpleasantness of this lady and consider the content of what was said and if any of it may be of benefit to you in the future. If not, file it away where it belongs but in some aspects she may have a point, no matter how poorly or offensively communicated.

I guess what I'm saying (as an example) is while you probably shouldn't have to ask if it's ok to enter an area, it might be good to do it, if it prevents an ugly incident.

Edited July 5, 2011 by conztruct

[aussielover]

Although I didn't actually ask to come in-

I did say hi to the people from behind the gate and stood there while they scrambled to catch their dogs and hold them, which would have been an ideal time for them to tell me if there were any issues....

I guess I sort of assumed that the fact they were grabbing their dogs back from the gate and greeted me, meant they were ok with me bringing my dog in.

In future I will be sure to ask- though I am not sure what i'd do if they said no

It is a public area after all (I can't find anything to say its members only, even on the club website) and my dog has as much right to be there as any others.

I've been there several times before and never had an issue.

Serve me right for going to a fenced dog area I suppose

[poodlefan]

In future I will be sure to ask- though I am not sure what i'd do if they said no It is a public area after all (I can't find anything to say its members only, even on the club website) and my dog has as much right to be there as any others.

I've been there several times before and never had an issue.

Serve me right for going to a fenced dog area I suppose

I've experienced that on any number of occasions.. at my dog club!!

Someone with a large dog asked, we said please use another area (and why) and she stopped and said "no it will be OK" and entered. Immediately her dog was mugged by about five very interested entire males.. she THEN decides its not a good idea.

Or the Toy Poodle owner who sees three poodles in a paddock (with five large dogs), pushes open the gate and wonders why her little dog isn't keen on the big dogs greeting. Her comment "I thought the other poodles would want to play". The other poodles looked at the new dog like it was an alien.. the Whippet was keen though.

I think that ladies response was over the top.. but gee I can see how a few encounters with others people could push you to that level.

Always ask and you can't go wrong. Hell, I'll even vacate an area to give people a go if I've been in there for a bit.

[conztruct]

Although I didn't actually ask to come in-

I did say hi to the people from behind the gate and stood there while they scrambled to catch their dogs and hold them, which would have been an ideal time for them to tell me if there were any issues....

I guess I sort of assumed that the fact they were grabbing their dogs back from the gate and greeted me, meant they were ok with me bringing my dog in.

In future I will be sure to ask- though I am not sure what i'd do if they said no

It is a public area after all (I can't find anything to say its members only, even on the club website) and my dog has as much right to be there as any others.

I've been there several times before and never had an issue.

Serve me right for going to a fenced dog area I suppose

Don't get me wrong - I don't think you did anything particularly wrong at all. But right or wrong aside, in those areas you need to expect the unexpected so anything you can do to avoid an issue is probably a good thing.

In answer to your original question, I don't think her behaviour was reasonable but the content of what she said may be useful for you.

[Oskar & Zsa Zsa]

What a idiot. I would have told her where to shove it.

Aussielover should not have to ask permission to enter a offleash area, because someone whos dogs are not under effective control should not be in that area in the first place.

And if you are in that area, knowing your dogs aren't under effective control, they had plenty of time while she waited at the gate for them to call their dog to then say "hey my dog is not good with other dogs."

I am with you. If you go to a fenced off lead area, I would assume it is a reasonable expectation that the animals in that area are well socialised and under control from the owners. Therefore, it is not neccessary to "ASK" permission to enter the area.

As for dogs not being allowed to play with toys or sticks, are you Effing kidding me???? They are dogs!!!! It's what they do!!! You want to roll them up in cotton wool now too???? (Rolling eyes)

If my dog and I had a toy we were playing with in a fenced off leash area and another dog started to try and play with it too, what's the big deal?? My dog would probably enjoy it too. If it didn't I would interupt the other dog, either through it's owner or if neccesary, directly.

I am confused as to how people expect to go into a fenced off leash dog park and not have another dog come near them either?? (talking about the lady with the small dog sitting on the bench)

Some people are just so anal about this sort of stuff. I had a lady at our local who had treats in her pocket. Naturally, every dog that got wind of it was hassling her for the food. She got really nasty with the owners of the dogs. One of which was mine. I made it very clear that if you bring treats to a dog park like this, expect to be hassled for them, if you are not comfortable with that, then you have a choice.....leave!

As for entering a fenced off lead area with my dog on the lead, no way!!!! I don't care what people say about control, I want my dog to be able to extracate itself from a potentially dangerous situation without the hinderence of a lead. I am also of the belief that off lead introductions produce less agression from most dogs. I will not walk into the puppy park with my two until they are off the lead. At least that way, when the hordes of dogs run down to greet them, they are able to interact immediately and appropriately without fear of hinderence from the lead.

Back to the original post, I can see why this puppy park prefect as poodlefan so rightly called her, annoyed you so greatly. I may not have been as polite to her as you were!!!! Well done!!

[megan_]

playing tug is very different from playing with a toy though. Tug is very rousing and even well socialised, well behaved dogs can become very roused when playing tug. I wouldn't play tug with my dog when others were near by.

Many public places get leased by clubs and when the club is training the place isn't open to the general public any more. Maybe this was the case? I agree that this should be clearly marked though.

Was the woman rude? Yes. Should all dogs be under effective control? Yes. Are most? Hell no. It is polite to ask before you enter. Sometimes, when it is still dark, I take my girl to a fenced area so she can have a run around. I watch at the gate so we can leave if someone comes anywhere near us. She does not like strange dogs that jump on her. Most dogs do jum though. Life would be a lot easier if someone just said "hey, can we enter?", and I could say "can you please wait a few seconds while we leave? thanks".

Unfortunately dog parks aren't like that. People will sooner tell you to f(&*@! off than give your dog a bit of space. Sigh.

My rule with uncontrolled dogs and/or rude people is to leave straight away. My safety and that of my dog's. isn't worth risking.

[poodlefan]

I am with you. If you go to a fenced off lead area, I would assume it is a reasonable expectation that the animals in that area are well socialised and under control from the owners. Therefore, it is not neccessary to "ASK" permission to enter the area.

Do you also assume that the dogs will enjoy being visited by large dogs, who may have different play styles, arent' old, or young or mildly dog aggressive?

The reason so many of us can't or won't use public dog parks is complete lack of courtesly and lack of consideration by folk who assume because their dogs can pretty much tolerate anything, that everyone else can just suck it up or leave.

And yet, with the use of a few courtesies to other dog owners, more folk can use such areas and encounters like the one Aussielover had won't happen.

If nothing else, asking if you can enter gives the other owners a chance to leave.

And no, Oscar and Zsa Zsa, it is not fair to throw a ball into a park full of dogs and expect that other folks dogs will ignore it, not want it, not chase it and not compete to get it. In a park full of strange dogs already at heightened levels of arousal, that's an invitation for aggression. Do it often enough and you'll start a dog fight.

[Peaches]

I second exactly what Sky said - couldn't say it better myself.

[Red Fox]

playing tug is very different from playing with a toy though. Tug is very rousing and even well socialised, well behaved dogs can become very roused when playing tug. I wouldn't play tug with my dog when others were near by.

If someone wishes to train their dog in prey drive using a tug reward then that's their business. Why shouldn't they be able to do this around other dogs, at a dog club?

The OP is not refering to uncontrolled play in some random offleash park. She was attempting to warm her dog up in a fenced training area.

Edited July 5, 2011 by SecretKei

[Oskar & Zsa Zsa]

I am with you. If you go to a fenced off lead area, I would assume it is a reasonable expectation that the animals in that area are well socialised and under control from the owners. Therefore, it is not neccessary to "ASK" permission to enter the area.

Do you also assume that the dogs will enjoy being visited by large dogs, who may have different play styles, arent' old, or young or mildly dog aggressive?

The reason so many of us can't or won't use public dog parks is complete lack of courtesly and lack of consideration by folk who assume because their dogs can pretty much tolerate anything, that everyone else can just suck it up or leave.

And yet, with the use of a few courtesies to other dog owners, more folk can use such areas and encounters like the one Aussielover had won't happen.

If nothing else, asking if you can enter gives the other owners a chance to leave.

And no, Oscar and Zsa Zsa, it is not fair to throw a ball into a park full of dogs and expect that other folks dogs will ignore it, not want it, not chase it and not compete to get it. In a park full of strange dogs already at heightened levels of arousal, that's an invitation for aggression. Do it often enough and you'll start a dog fight.

We must have the most lucky dog park in the world, as i have never seen a fight over balls, sticks or toys in the 6 months I have been going there almost daily!!! As for dogs who are larger. I find that the big dogs at our park, potentially owner inspired, are very gentle and play well with the little dogs. Even boofy 7 month old Ozkar knows the rules with the littlies. Zsa Zsa has a favourite little Beagle X Cav which is tiny and they play gorgeously together. It's the owners of the small dogs who won't allow them to interact with larger dogs which causes most of those issues anyway in my opinion. There are some small dogs that go to the park where I go and they are just fantastic! More front than Myers!!

But hey, we all have our own opinions on how things should or shouldn't be and what you believe is what works for you and vice versa. I can only talk from my experience and in my experience, balls and sticks are wonderful playthings in a puppy park.

[poodlefan]

But hey, we all have our own opinions on how things should or shouldn't be and what you believe is what works for you and vice versa. I can only talk from my experience and in my experience, balls and sticks are wonderful playthings in a puppy park.

Sticks are a common source of mouth and upper respiratory tract injuries. Ask your vet.

I think you're missing the point here. Its not about what works for YOU. Its about preventing incidents and giving other dog owners choices about who their dogs run with. The issue is not how nice or how gently any one here's dogs are with other dogs. The issue is that unless someone knows your dogs, they don't know that. You also don't know about dogs you're just seeing for the first time.

So asking a stranger if its OK for your dogs to mix gives them time to inform you if there's an issue and protects your dogs from any adverse reactions they might have encountered.

An ounce of prevention and all that...

It will be interesting if Oscar's behaviour changes as he matures and with Zsa Zsa on the scene. Many male dogs (desexed or not) tend to be protective of bitches in their pack.

What you can rest assured about is that other male dogs attitudes to Oscar will start to change now. His puppy license is about to expire.

Edited July 5, 2011 by poodlefan

[wuffles]

I picked up a ball and threw it in the bin at a dog park once. I asked if it belonged to anyone, got no answer, so into the bin it went. I got some horrible looks but at least it stopped my dogs and others in the dog park being picked on by a particular resource guarder just for WALKING PAST THE BALL. The owners thought it was funny, btw.

I do go to dog parks btw, I'm just pretty selective about the other dogs that are in there.

(And PF, my boy acts VERY differently in dog parks now that he has a 'little sister'.)

[espinay2]

It does amaze me sometimes how many people can be willing to risk something happening to their dog just because they think they have a 'right' to do something.

A little dog knowledge coupled with common courtesy can go a long way......

Personally when it comes to my dogs I prefer to 'drive defensively' so we all enjoy ourselves and stay safe. Each to their own I guess.

Poodlefan, I guess when it comes to protecting our own dogs, we were just lucky enough to be in a place where we were taught well about 'managed dog play' ;)

Edited July 5, 2011 by espinay2

[poodlefan]

It does amaze me sometimes how many people can be willing to risk something happening to their dog just because they think they have a 'right' to do something.

A little dog knowledge coupled with common courtesy can go a long way......

Personally when it comes to my dogs I prefer to 'drive defensively' so we all enjoy ourselves and stay safe. Each to their own I guess.

Poodlefan, I guess when it comes to protecting our own dogs, we were just lucky enough to be in a place where we were taught well about 'managed dog play' ;)

It also amazes me how many people think that because their dog doesn't have issues with what happens in dog parks, no other owner should be able to object to what happens.

I've jumped fences at our club to be the first person to wade into a dog fight... people assume that because their dog is lovely in their back yard, it will be the same in a group of 3 or more highly aroused dogs in an offlead setting... and then an incident is triggered between two dogs, or a dog objects to something and the whole lot weigh in.

If you've never seen or experienced your dog behaving as a member of a pack, don't ever assume it won't happen. Lovely family pets can do truely shocking things in such settings.

I've watched groups of dogs winding themselves up to that point with owners oblivious to what's going on. Add a new dog, a ball, food, or a scuffle and it becomes a whole new dynamic.

Dog trainers don't call offlead dog parks "a license to print money" for no reason. Plenty of vets do OK from patching up after incidents too.

There is an excellent book and plenty of guidance online on how to behave safely and courteously in public dog parks. Most suggest an approach slightly more considerate and cautious than "do what works for you".

Edited July 5, 2011 by poodlefan

[megan_]

playing tug is very different from playing with a toy though. Tug is very rousing and even well socialised, well behaved dogs can become very roused when playing tug. I wouldn't play tug with my dog when others were near by.

The op said it was a public park???

If someone wishes to train their dog in prey drive using a tug reward then that's their business. Why shouldn't they be able to do this around other dogs, at a dog club?

The OP is not refering to uncontrolled play in some random offleash park. She was attempting to warm her dog up in a fenced training area.

[aussielover]

playing tug is very different from playing with a toy though. Tug is very rousing and even well socialised, well behaved dogs can become very roused when playing tug. I wouldn't play tug with my dog when others were near by.

The op said it was a public park???

If someone wishes to train their dog in prey drive using a tug reward then that's their business. Why shouldn't they be able to do this around other dogs, at a dog club?

The OP is not refering to uncontrolled play in some random offleash park. She was attempting to warm her dog up in a fenced training area.

I actually am not sure what is is now

I assumed it was a public training area but who knows, it may be for club members only, though I have no idea which club as quite a few use the grounds.

I've trained my dog with a tug in groups training situations before and never had any issues with other dogs.

I guess those dogs are probably better behaved and under control compared to the average dog though.

Edited July 5, 2011 by aussielover

[Red Fox]

playing tug is very different from playing with a toy though. Tug is very rousing and even well socialised, well behaved dogs can become very roused when playing tug. I wouldn't play tug with my dog when others were near by.

The op said it was a public park???

If someone wishes to train their dog in prey drive using a tug reward then that's their business. Why shouldn't they be able to do this around other dogs, at a dog club?

The OP is not refering to uncontrolled play in some random offleash park. She was attempting to warm her dog up in a fenced training area.

I actually am not sure what is is now

I assumed it was a public training area but who knows, it may be for club members only, though I have no idea which club as quite a few use the grounds.

I've trained my dog with a tug in groups training situations before and never had any issues with other dogs.

I guess those dogs are probably better behaved and under control compared to the average dog though.

Sorry, I thought you were refering to a fenced training off area within club grounds.

Still, I'm not aware of any 'laws' stating that you can't play tug with your dog in a public park...

[Red Fox]

I am with you. If you go to a fenced off lead area, I would assume it is a reasonable expectation that the animals in that area are well socialised and under control from the owners. Therefore, it is not neccessary to "ASK" permission to enter the area.

Do you really believe that? Plenty of owners use fenced dog parks because they can't control or recall their dog. Do a search here, you'll find plenty of examples of what can happen when you gamble with your dogs safety based on your "expectation that the animals in that area are well socialised and under control from the owners". Because I can tell you now - many of them aren't.

ETA, it's not that your expectations are unreasonable, but that they are unrealistic.

Edited July 5, 2011 by SecretKei