Is This Reasonable Behaviour? Bit Of A Rant...

[aussielover]

This morning I took my dog to agility training. The club trains in an area where there are 3 medium sized fenced areas. They only use one of the areas.

I arrived 10 minutes early, so decided to use one of the other fenced areas (furthest from the agility area so as not to distract the dogs in the earlier class) to play with my dog and get her focussed on me.

There were already 3 dogs in the area so waited at the gate until the owners grabbed their dogs because they thought they might run out.

An older lady with a BC on lead then says I might go, I don't know what this dog is like (referring to my dog) which I thought was weird, but whatever, maybe she had a bad experience.

So I held the gate open for her but then she yelled at me to shut the gate, so I assumed she wasn't going to go out after all.

My dog gets rushed by the two other dogs the owners have held back, which luckily is fine, she is friendly and submissive.

I then go to get my tug out and play with my dog and the lady with the BC and another lady say that apparently I can't play with toys or balls in the area as it builds play drive and causes aggression. Um perhaps if you kept your dogs away from us, then that wouldn't happen...there was defintiely enough space for people to have their own area.

So I then tell mindy to find a stick, seeing as I'm not allowed my tug :rolleyes:

She then says my dog can't have a stick either and gives me a lecture about how dangerous they are and if I knew anything about dogs I wouldn't let my dog near one.

Which is partly true, sticks can be dangerous I agree, but I wasn't going to throw it for her, merely get her to find one and bring it back to me as a training exercise as she knows the word "stick" and I wasn't allowed to give her the ball or tug.

And anyway, isn't it my choice as to whether I allow my dog to play with a stick or not?

So by this stage I'm getting really irritated but I walk away without comment and begin to do some obedience exercises with my dog.

As I am heeling around the area with my dog the lady approaches me again and says that I should have asked to come into the area as I don't know if the other dogs are ok with my dog. At this point I have to say something and I say its a public area, my dog never approached any of the other dogs in here (they were the ones that approached her and in a very uncontrolled manner) and if other people don't like the look of my dog, then simply keep their dog away. She then says its NOT a public area its only for members of "the club". There are no signs says its a members only area so how is anyone supposed to know (if its even true)? Additionally I am a member of a club that trains here so I don't see why I can't use it too.

She then goes on to say that its for dog owners whose dogs can't run around on the oval (so presumably out of control or aggressive) or wanted to do training (which is exactly what I wanted to do with my dog).

She then says that her dog has an injury so it can't run around and is on lead. OK fine, but does that mean no other dogs can use the area?

Anyway by the time all this has happened, its time for class to start, so we leave.

I just thought this lady was really rude and a bully.

Perhaps looking for a confrontation?

I would have preferred if she'd just said at the start "you can't some in here".

Unfortunately it seems people like this seem to be attracted to fenced dog areas and then act they like own it.

I've never had anyone tell me what I can and can't train my dog with in a unfenced area. But perhaps I am the unreasonable one?

I hope I don't see her next time.

Sorry I guess this was a bit of a pointless post but it does feel good to get it out :D

[W Sibs]

vent away

I don't go to fence dog parks...

[Fatsofatsoman]

It does get to you huh? you did well to hold your tongue for as long as you did.

Was at the park yesterday and this lady comes in with a toy breed - holding it btw, not walking it in - goes and sits on a bench with the dog on her lap, two dogs went up and had a sniff, neither jumped on her or encroached to much and she screamed and swore her head off at them - their owners came and took them away shaking their heads.

So Boonie goes over to have a look - I recall him before he gets within 10m - and she's yelling at me - get your effing dog away from us, we aren't here to play. Instead of walking away shaking my head I let her know where to go. I had my dog under control, he came as soon as I called him and she rages. Why the hell was she in an offlead park anyway just sitting with him on her lap - there are benches outside the park.

[poodlefan]

Sounds like you hit the self appointed park prefect. However she was right about some things;

I should have asked to come into the area as I don't know if the other dogs are ok with my dog.

Agree. There's a sign to that effect on the gates at my dog club.

I then go to get my tug out and play with my dog and the lady with the BC and another lady say that apparently I can't play with toys or balls in the area as it builds play drive and causes aggression.

Can definitely cause resource guarding dust ups.

She had her point but certainly didn't win you over expressing it.

However if her dog couldn't be let off lead, why did it need to be in the fenced area?

Edited July 5, 2011 by poodlefan

[jacqui835]

Oh gosh she's just a weirdo. Plenty of them out there.

I am actually glad to see that even when handled well (ie by yourself), those people are still tards. I tend to become a little more irate and tell them to mind their own business (and in your case, I would have told them to work on controlling their own dogs) and of course it never ends well. I had a lady at Centennial Park have a go at me once for having an entire dog - it was the most ridiculous thing ever but supposedly my dog was causing 2 other desexed males to fight and try and dominate each other. I told her I was happy with my dog and didn't agree with her take on the situation (given that my dog was at this stage, lying in the shade under a tree). She said she hoped I was really happy with my dog, because he would be the only one who wanted to be around me. Well, I was actually so shocked I couldn't speak, but fortunately I spent so much time at Centennial Park back in the day that I knew everyone else, and one of the guys addressed her for me. She left with her two poor starving vizlas (and I'm not someone who believes fat dogs are healthy dogs, these things were just ugly skinny - bones everywhere and no energy) and we never saw her again.

You're a fantastic and very responsible dog owner - and my dog loved Mindy (he's a good judge lol); if all dog owners were like you, there wouldn't be any problems at all. But you're right, some people are just looking for a fight.

[wuffles]

I don't think either of you were right or wrong specifically.

I don't know if the area you're talking about is an actual dog club, but at my club I would never enter one of the fenced areas without asking the other occupants first. In fact, I'd try to avoid using the same enclosure as someone else entirely... the only times I'd enter would be if I knew the other people in there or if there was no other room, and I would ask if it was ok if I trained my dog up the other end of the field.

Somewhere like a school oval is different... that's a public area with a mixed use.

I'm pretty easygoing when it comes to these kind of things. I might have a whinge to the hubby when I get home but get over it pretty quickly :p

[aussielover]

Sounds like you hit the self appointed park prefect. However she was right about some things;

I should have asked to come into the area as I don't know if the other dogs are ok with my dog.

Agree. There's a sign to that effect on the gates at my dog club.

I then go to get my tug out and play with my dog and the lady with the BC and another lady say that apparently I can't play with toys or balls in the area as it builds play drive and causes aggression.

Can definitely cause resource guarding dust ups.

She had her point but certainly didn't win you over expressing it.

However if her dog couldn't be let off lead, why did it need to be in the fenced area?

I'm afraid I do not agree.

If your dogs are aggressive or potentially troublesome, they need to be under your control (ie NOT approach other dogs) or on a lead or not in a dog area at all.

I did not have the intention of letting my dog run wild with other dogs she doesn't know in a confined area.

I believe I should be allowed to use toys, food and tugs to train and play with my dog and not have other dogs pester us, or try to join in.

My dog is not a resource guarder but even if she was, I believe it is the other owners fault for letting their dog approach another obviously training or pretty into playing with their ball/toy.

Why should my dog be put out just because others can't control theirs?

Anyway if she was agggressive or a rescourse guarder, then no way would I bring her to an enclosed dog area and bring her toys.

[aussielover]

I don't think either of you were right or wrong specifically.

I don't know if the area you're talking about is an actual dog club, but at my club I would never enter one of the fenced areas without asking the other occupants first. In fact, I'd try to avoid using the same enclosure as someone else entirely... the only times I'd enter would be if I knew the other people in there or if there was no other room, and I would ask if it was ok if I trained my dog up the other end of the field.

Somewhere like a school oval is different... that's a public area with a mixed use.

I'm pretty easygoing when it comes to these kind of things. I might have a whinge to the hubby when I get home but get over it pretty quickly :p

I was under the impression the area was a public fenced dog area.

There were no signs saying it belonged to a particular club.

I think a few clubs use the areas to train in but when they are not in use, I got the impression people just seemed to use them as a dog park.

[poodlefan]

I'm afraid I do not agree.

If your dogs are aggressive or potentially troublesome, they need to be under your control (ie NOT approach other dogs) or on a lead or not in a dog area at all.

I did not have the intention of letting my dog run wild with other dogs she doesn't know in a confined area.

And of course, being telepathic and an expert in dog behaviour, every other dog park user can look at you and your dog and know that you are responsible, your dog is always under control and that her style of play will suit theirs.

Its a common courtesy to ask before entering with unknown dogs - for the benefit of everyone.

I believe I should be allowed to use toys, food and tugs to train and play with my dog and not have other dogs pester us, or try to join in.

In that case, don't use them in an area with other dog users.

My dog is not a resource guarder but even if she was, I believe it is the other owners fault for letting their dog approach another obviously training or pretty into playing with their ball/toy.

Why should my dog be put out just because others can't control theirs?

Anyway if she was agggressive or a rescourse guarder, then no way would I bring her to an enclosed dog area and bring her toys.

This is more than about you and your dog. Its about dynamics that occur when strange dogs and multiple dogs use a common area.

If you're not prepared to compromise for the safety and benefit of other park users the solution is a very simple one. Don't enter the gate.

[Isabel964]

You handled it well. You behaved normally. IF there are rules, then they should be clearly stated at the gate so people who can't friggin read minds can read them.

I hate uptight prissy dog owners. Sorry.

But they are so uptight and rude and aggressive.

A nice person trying to be a good dog owner with good intentions deserves to be treated with respect.

If she should ask to go in, then that should be written on the gate or around there.

If she is not supposed to use toys in there - that too should be stated on the gate.

How else is she supposed to know?!?

This woman's behaviour towards this normal person just going about her day made a normal person feel upset, unwelcome, confused and other negative emotions - and it was all necessary. It makes me really cross. She was treated as if she broke rules that are out there clear for everyone to see and couldn't care less about them - far from the case.

As for the other lady with the toy dog on her lap swearing at people whose dogs approached - or started to approach - I'm glad you gave it to her. I tend to bite my tongue but there seem to be more and more people like this. They and their yappy nasty little aggressive dogs can stay the hell away from off leach areas. Or if they are trying to do good with their dog, to come with a better attitude.

I have no time for people that are nasty to nice people just going about their business.

[espinay2]

Sounds like you hit the self appointed park prefect. However she was right about some things;

I should have asked to come into the area as I don't know if the other dogs are ok with my dog.

Agree. There's a sign to that effect on the gates at my dog club.

I then go to get my tug out and play with my dog and the lady with the BC and another lady say that apparently I can't play with toys or balls in the area as it builds play drive and causes aggression.

Can definitely cause resource guarding dust ups.

She had her point but certainly didn't win you over expressing it.

However if her dog couldn't be let off lead, why did it need to be in the fenced area?

I'm afraid I do not agree.

If your dogs are aggressive or potentially troublesome, they need to be under your control (ie NOT approach other dogs) or on a lead or not in a dog area at all.

I did not have the intention of letting my dog run wild with other dogs she doesn't know in a confined area.

I believe I should be allowed to use toys, food and tugs to train and play with my dog and not have other dogs pester us, or try to join in.

My dog is not a resource guarder but even if she was, I believe it is the other owners fault for letting their dog approach another obviously training or pretty into playing with their ball/toy.

Why should my dog be put out just because others can't control theirs?

Anyway if she was agggressive or a rescourse guarder, then no way would I bring her to an enclosed dog area and bring her toys.

Thie issue is though IMO you dont know if the other dogs in the area were resource guarders who would covet your dogs toy and you don't know how much control over their dogs the other people in the area had. While it may be well and good to say what they 'should' be doing, it is a bit like driving - all people in control of a car should be obeying the road rules. However, we know they don't so we drive in a defensive manner to protect ourselves. No use driving through the green light if you can see that the person coming the other way is possibly going to run the red light. I would rather apply my brakes and be safe rather than possibly get hit knowing I was in the right.

IMO while the other people in the area were not totally in the right and handled the situation badly (as poodlefan mentioned so seem to have come across one of those self appointed folk who like to tell everybody the 'rules'), there were things on the part of both parties that could IMO have been done better and would have improved the situation. As mentioned by Poodlefan, asking before entering a fenced area where dogs are free running if you can bring your dog in is a good move. If they say no, there may be a reason. Ask them how long they will be as you would like to do some training and warmup with your dog before class. Or just move to another area if one is available.

[lovemesideways]

What a idiot. I would have told her where to shove it.

Aussielover should not have to ask permission to enter a offleash area, because someone whos dogs are not under effective control should not be in that area in the first place.

And if you are in that area, knowing your dogs aren't under effective control, they had plenty of time while she waited at the gate for them to call their dog to then say "hey my dog is not good with other dogs."

[Red Fox]

IF there are rules, then they should be clearly stated at the gate so people who can't friggin read minds can read them.

^^This. Regardless of who is right or wrong people aren't mind readers of unwritten rules.

[stonecutter]

Its a common courtesy to ask before entering with unknown dogs - for the benefit of everyone.

As a new dog owner, I always read the signs at parks to make sure I'm doing the correct thing - if there was no sign indicating I should ask existing occupants and I wanted to go into a fenced dog park, I wouldn't have known it was common courtesy to ask.

What happens in big fenced areas? Eg something football field sized?

On a side note - hypothetically, if I have a totally out of control dog (off leash and not responding to voice control), I get to the fenced dog park first and we are the only ones in there. So then if others come along who would also like use the fenced park, I have the right to tell them to bugger off and according to courtesy they should go?

aussielover - given what you've told us I think you handled it in a calm and reasonable manner and I probably wouldn't have done anything differently given that there were no signs saying "please ask occupants before entry" and "no balls or toys". Hope Mindy had fun at agility

[mita]

IF there are rules, then they should be clearly stated at the gate so people who can't friggin read minds can read them.

Yes, this was my impression from the telling, too. If it's a private club, with some kind of restricted entry to the area you were in, then there should've been a sign at the entry point. That would have saved you a lot of grief....& the lady a lot of scolding strangers.

[wuffles]

IF there are rules, then they should be clearly stated at the gate so people who can't friggin read minds can read them.

How about members of the public in public areas? There are no rules or laws about other dogs approaching others without asking, yet that's something we all get uppity about. There are no laws about one dog humping another, or a multitude of other behaviour we all find unacceptable.

It's not about rules, it's about common sense.

[wuffles]

Define 'under effective control'? I can have control over my dog and still allow them to approach another dog. If I see that as acceptable behaviour and don't call it back, it's still under control.

Likewise with humping. I have seen plenty of people who COULD stop their dogs if they wanted to, but they don't.

[Kavik]

Ah, fenced dog parks - the joys! I think I know the area you are talking about and I avoid the fenced areas when I am there for a trial, don't trust the people or the dogs! I do my warming up and rewarding in a grassed area behind the fenced area.

[Red Fox]

IF there are rules, then they should be clearly stated at the gate so people who can't friggin read minds can read them.

How about members of the public in public areas? There are no rules or laws about other dogs approaching others without asking, yet that's something we all get uppity about. There are no laws about one dog humping another, or a multitude of other behaviour we all find unacceptable.

It's not about rules, it's about common sense.

Common sense only gets you so far. Not everyone has it.

Signage eliminates the guesswork for those that are not aware of the 'rules' (no toys/food, members only, etc) and states the obvious for numpties (effective control).

[Red Fox]

Define 'under effective control'? I can have control over my dog and still allow them to approach another dog. If I see that as acceptable behaviour and don't call it back, it's still under control.

Likewise with humping. I have seen plenty of people who COULD stop their dogs if they wanted to, but they don't.

I'd define 'under effective control' as the owner actually using it.