neo2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) I have a 13 week old Kelpie and when we got him when he was 8 weeks old, he was fearful of people as well as dogs. We've overcomed the problem of people and now he's getting pretty good with dogs too as we take him to dog parks alot. The problem we are starting to see is that now when we take him to training classes or puppy school, he is SOOO distracted and pulling at the leash to try and play with the other dogs during training session. He is more interested in other dogs than me. We can get his attention for a little while if we call his name and lure away with food, but then 5 seconds later, he's back at it trying to get to the other pups. I attribute this problem to my own fault of taking him to dog parks too often to play and he now thinks everytime he sees a dog, its playtime. I've now decided not to go to dog parks anymore to get his focus back on me and just take him for leash walks. What should I do now to let him learn that everytimne he sees a dog, its not playtime (without my permission). And is there any way I can "reward" him if he's good to allow him a short play session at the park? (and a way for him to link good behaviour with me allowing him to play with other dogs) or should I just avoid dog parks all together? Everytime I take him to a dog park, I do get him to sit and be calm before I release him off leash and give him the release word "ok"...but I feel like I've done some damage to his training...any suggestions? Edited July 5, 2011 by neo2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandybrush Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 i suggest for the next week or so leash walks only when you see another dog and he starts to ignore you say leave it then you wait have treats ready soon as he looks to you reward treat after treat give him heaps, eventually it will not take as long for him to look at you before you have to treat. second thing i would do is take him to the park (if there is grass next to the dog park) and do some training, once you have it good at home take him to the park and train him with the distractions, if he is good at the end you can then release him to play if he doesnt focus on you at all no play at the end. what i would do to start is go and sit next to the park and make a kissing sound say to get his attention and reward, again lots and lots of treats (even a game of tug, whatever motivates him) eventually he will be focusing on you next to the park and you can then commence your training take it slow, maybe your first trip out you can just sit and reward for eye contact with you, then go home then the next day reward for eye contact with some obedience work then home etc. hope that makes sense and gives you something to think about or to try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I attribute this problem to my own fault of taking him to dog parks too often to play and he now thinks everytime he sees a dog, its playtime. I've now decided not to go to dog parks anymore to get his focus back on me and just take him for leash walks. How often was "too often" in your pup's case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabel964 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I'm not a pro but I think you have done great socialising your pup and socialising with people and dogs is really important. I'm sure most pups like to play with other dogs whenever they can and it is probably their first instinct. I'm sure in time she will learn she can not just rush over to play. Its important, not just for your classes but for life. when I walk my dogs, if another dog is on the other side of the road, mine just look and keep walking. Many of other people's dogs go nuts, barking at my dogs and pulling bigtime on their leash and creating drama on that side of the road trying to come over to play or whatever with my dogs. This must be a real headache for the person walking the dog. Kelpies are quick learner, I'm confident you will be fine. You'll get good advice here - but I am not a pro so all I can do is tell you what I did with my kelpie. I hired Ozdogs. A trainer came to the house, spent 1.5-2 hours with us. He showed me some really basic easy exercises and handling tips and said all I had to do was practise with my dog at least 10 minutes a day for two weeks to get the dog used to how I needed the dog to behave. Tey charged me a couple of hundred dollars - it was worth every single cent. My kelpie picked it up so well, and its made her life great - she is no trouble, she is always by my side, she stays in my control without even a leash (I always have one anyway). Good luck, chin up - it will be ok. Just persevere. PS Dog beaches are also wonderful places to socialise dogs - even in winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 You might like to contact Steve at K9 Pro and ask him about the 'Handbrake' Method, that teaches dogs that they're not always going to get interaction with another dog just because they see them and be calm when they see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I would be careful of dog parks, especially if your Kelpie has a tendency to be fearful. I tried to socialise Zoe like that, and she turned dog aggressive. I've since learned that Kelpies do not always like exuberant, in your face, rough play that often occurs at a dog park. I was much more careful with Kaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabel964 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I would be careful of dog parks, especially if your Kelpie has a tendency to be fearful. I tried to socialise Zoe like that, and she turned dog aggressive. I've since learned that Kelpies do not always like exuberant, in your face, rough play that often occurs at a dog park. I was much more careful with Kaos. Personally I love dog parks, as they are good for our dogs to experience all different types of dogs. But I ahve been known to drive away from a dog park when its over full, or leave a dog park when there are aggressive dogs there. If there are aggressive looking/or acting dogs there I usually just turn and walk away towards the other side of the park or towards more calm dogs. I can sense now what the dogs are like - you just get this second sense and you can tell if its going to be ok or not - and 90% of the time its wonderful. Certainly while a dog is young you need to be careful and not overdo the interactions. Yo also need to watch out because alot of mature dogs don't play gently enough with a puppy and this can be over-whelming for the puppy. If dogs are getting to in your puppy's face, get your puppy and move her away from that full-on interaction. Be confident, don't moddycoddle her or she might become sooky. Once a dog is mature, you know what he or she enjoys or not, you know what they can handle and you manage it appropriately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Having had an aggressive dog, I just now err on the side of caution I only go to parks where there are few to no dogs and watch interactions carefully. Knowing the types of dogs mine aren't comfortable with , if I see a dog with that interaction/play style we avoid it and leave if necessary. I have talked to lots of people with Kelpies and watched Kelpies at training, competitions, parks, dog daycares and there certainly are some situations that they are not comfortable with in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I also tend to be cautious around dog parks. I go in if they are empty and leave if someone else arrives. That is because of previous experiences rather than my dogs. I would also caution being around them simply as a health risk at such a young age- physical injuries from running around like an idiot is common in Kelpies. I think your pup would have found other dogs interesting even if you had never been to a dog park! You have a breed that is attracted to movement and noise so you need to build up a strong reward history for giving you attention. Going on short walks (pups at this age really only need a 10-15 minute wonder rather than a proper walk) and rewarding attention, even a glance will help you when you get to more distracting environments. If your dog becomes too distracted you might have to go back to a less distracting environment so that you can reward good behaviour. I think at this stage the dog park would be too distracting for what you are aiming to achieve. I do training at Castle Hill (not sure what area you are) and most of their beginner classes focus on getting the dog to give you attention as this is the foundation that all other behaviours are built on. I will even reward my dogs for flicking their ears in my direction to listen to me, I don't always need them looking at me, but I defiantly want them listening to me. When you go to a dog park you should have voice control over you dog- so a reliable recall so if there is a problem your dog comes straight back to you so this is something else to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I wouldn't stress, I did exactly the same thing. I wanted a dog who knew how to play and interact with others. When she was younger she was allowed to play with other dogs (supervised and selected) but then we hit the point very quickly that as soon as she saw another dog she just went into silly crazy mode, her brain just flooded with adrenalin. I know people like neutralization, and I can completely see the benefits (ie. you wouldn't have done the puppy play) but I weighed up my options and having a breed with a low bite threshold meant, to me, that I wanted her to have interaction skills as well. Its now a bit of hard work on your part to be more fun than the other dogs. Im doing it by teaching 'leave' and using that when she is on lead and even looks in the direction of another dog. Leave, to her, doesn't have negative connotations, just means she has to wait a little longer before she can do/ get something. Also I have a special toy that I carry in my back pocket, a squishy, cylindrical chicken she looooves playing tug with it, and I use it as a reward sometimes. When I see another dog in the park now I keep her on lead and show her the toy, seeing how long I can hold her attention for. Sometimes means I have to clown around a bit and I'm working on getting closer and closer to the distractions. You see it all the time, dogs more interested in playing with their ball than socializing. Your lucky you have a breed that should have good prey/ play drive. My girl is 6 months old now and the ignoring other dogs is still a work in progress but we are getting there. Helps too that she has been to show classes etc where no interaction is encouraged, so on lead has never been too much of a problem. Her 'official' training hasn't been ruined, she just got her first ANKC pass. I'd teach the leave command, keep using your ok release, and work on having him really, really wanting something from you. You can get him back with treats, so when you do get him back get him to do some tricks, like shake hands and keep pumping small treats into him. Over a few weeks you can stretch out the time between treat giving. Try introducing a marker word, which means a treat is coming. Mine is 'yes'. If you don't want to use food all the time, try using games with you like fetch or tug. Short fetches can still be played on lead. Hope my little story helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Make a playdate with a boring older dog that will just walk away if the pup tries to play. Then start playing with your pup in a really exciting, fun way so he can see you are much more fun to be with. If you're really seroius about competing or training then this is the only interaction he should have with other dogs for the moment- neutral value for the adult dog (because its boring) and high value for you. I don't think dog parks are great places for socialisation for timid dogs, unless you can organise a group of nice dogs to be there. BTW I don't think you've done any irreversible damage to his training. My dog likes playing with her dog friends but knows when its time to work and won't get distracted by them (food and toys are much more exciting). She was quite distracted by them up until around 6 months then i started noticing an improvement in focussing on me. Now she's actually quite good and only wants to play with me even when there are many other dogs around (like obedience or agility training). Though she does have a Koolie boyfriend at agility that she likes playing with in breaks (when we allow it) but she's never run off a course or exercise to play with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Thanks for all the input guys. I take Neo up to 3 dog parks a week. He's cautious with larger dogs and we always scope the dogs out first before letting him in. If there are aggressive or badly behaved dogs, we don't go in there or leave early. I took him for a walk today and he's definitely better than he was say 2 weeks ago. He is so distracted by people, noises, leaves, smells, etc that it can take up to 45mins to go around the block. I'm just trying to teach him loose leash walking and also tought him the "heel" command which he now follows (big surprise to me how quick he picked it up!! - so proud). But this was all at lower level of distractions. I was just a little embarrassed how he was pretty much the only pup in training class that kept jumping around and pulling on leash to try to get to the other puppies while the other dogs just sat there quietly...either there's really good pups in my class or Neo is just out of control. Its a good idea to organise a play date with a boring dog...we tried that but the boring dog just ended up face humping my boy.. He also has a bad habit of pestering dogs that don't want to play with him, constantly pawing and jumping on them (even if they growl at him). I usually try to get in there and get him away before it escalates further. But last time at a puppy preschool class, Neo and another dog got a little agressive and I went to break it up but the trainer said I should've left him alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 hmm I've only scanned the other replies so I might be repeating... something helpful to do would be to make him work for you before he is allowed to greet another dog, and also attach a word to greeting another dog. Then he knows that theren will be no saying hello until he hears that word. He will also know he has to follow your rules to be allowed to say hello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Neo do you ever do any training while at the dog park.. you may need to work on getting your pup's focus at time so that he learns that "there's a dog" doesn't equate to "time for play" every time you see one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodbyne Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Having owned trained and trialled working kelpies in all fields one thing to remember is that kelpies love movement thats what they were bred to look for so if you are just standing around or moving slowly the other dogs moving wil be way more attractive to his attention. Even when training heeling you have to be moving be intersting to the dog walking in slow straight lines is way too boring for a kelpie short sharp quick accurate lessons are the way to go. Babaies also have a very short attention span. Have fun and enjoy learning with your baby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooky Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I have the same issue, my pup is 5 months old and he still just wants to get to other dogs and play when we're out walking he walks lovely beside me but if we come across another dog he lunges to get to it and when your walking with a pram its not good!!!! At training he's good and listens to me but if we get near another dog thats it he just wants to get to it and play. I'm hoping with training and age that this will get better . Good luck you'll get there :D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo2011 Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 Today I took my pup for a walk and he was absolutely great on the leash. He was walking beside me, not pulling and very attentive. I found that the best way to train your dog is to make sure it is sufficiently hungry and try to use that as a motivational tool (make sure you have high value treats as well..in my case, I used beef mince). Of course don't do anything silly and starve your pup for days!! I even left him off leash with people around him and one dog about 30m away from him and did some sit and stay commands while I walked 10m away. He's not as good as at home, but I was pleasantly surprised. Its always good to see some sort of improvement!! However, last week I took him to the dog park not to play, but to train and walk around it and he was quite badly distracted and kept wanting to run off to play. I guess I just need to slowly build up the distractions and to also make sure he's a little hungrier so he will focus on me to get the treats. I'll stick to it and hopefully he will get better. One "annoying" thing is that alot of people (especially women) are attracted to him and have that high pitched "heelllooo puppy!!" and my dog just goes beserk trying to get to them for pats. Then the females come and pat him - rewarding his unsettled and jumping behaviour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Neo, Just ask anyone wanting to pat him if they don't mind waiting while you get him to sit and settle first. Tell them he is in training and while you don't mind them patting him (if you don't mind), as long as he behaves first And I can see why everyone would want to pat him he is very very cute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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