Unusual Titre Test Result

[aussielover]

So my dog was titre tested a week ago and she has immunity to parvo but not distemper...

Apparently distemper is one that they should have a strong response to, its usually the parvo that may be questionable.

Has anyone else had something like this? Could it be a lab mistake or something? Also the blood was taken on a saturday and not sent off till the next monday so I wonder if this could have affected the result, although it was just serum required so I don't really see how.

So she will need another C3 (unfortunately there isn't a vax for distemper alone) which is ok, as it will be her 1 year booster anyway. Though in hindsight, I am kinda wishing I just had her vaccinated as it would have been cheaper!

At least I know i've done the best for her now though.

[Ptolomy]

My allergy girl came back with parvo > 80 and distemper less than 5. Discussed it at length with specialists. You cannot get a distemper only vaccine, so your only choice if you choose to do something about it is a C3.

We decided that reason for low distemper was because her immune system hadn't been challenged with the virus ( seen in remote aboriginal communities in WA) and since we did get a response, all be it low, I decided to retitre in 2 years.

[pie]

What were the numbers?

Mine was the other way around, Parvo had a strong response and Distemper not so much, other dogs were getting similar results in Perth, I was told this was because there wasn't really any distemper around so the dog hadn't mounted a strong response, whereas there is a fair bit of Parvo around. It wasn't weak enough for me to want to revaccinate.

[aussielover]

Distemper was 1/5

Parvo was fine, strong response.

I haven't seen the results yet, just repeating what the vet told me, so don't have number for parvo.

So do I actually need to re- vax her for distemper?

The vet basically read out what vetpath recommends ie. dog with a distemper of 1/5-1/20 should be revaccinated.

But I see in another thread a number of DOLers who have had similar results to us, have chosen not to revaccinate.

I think I will probably have to vax again though because our training club requires dogs to be vaccinated or titre tested.

[Ptolomy]

Distemper was 1/5

Parvo was fine, strong response.

I haven't seen the results yet, just repeating what the vet told me, so don't have number for parvo.

So do I actually need to re- vax her for distemper?

The vet basically read out what vetpath recommends ie. dog with a distemper of 1/5-1/20 should be revaccinated.

But I see in another thread a number of DOLers who have had similar results to us, have chosen not to revaccinate.

I think I will probably have to vax again though because our training club requires dogs to be vaccinated or titre tested.

Aussielover I can't tell you to vaccinate or not. The path lab had the same recommendations on my distemper results. My dog has a compromised immune system and the last thing I wanted to do was to overload it with another parvo vaccination just to up her distemper levels.

Does your club check vaccination certificates when you renew your membership?

[aussielover]

Mindy is also an allergy dog, which was the whole point for doing the titre test as recommended by the specialist.

Yes, the club checks vaccination certificates upon renewal.

My understanding is that 1:5 is still a response but may be lower because there are very low distemper levels in our area; therefore she may not been exposed?

I will check the results and discuss with our vet and specialist before deciding.

[Ptolomy]

[stormie]

Hmm my understanding is that Distemper is often low because it's not as common in the environment these days, so they are rarely challenged by it. I would say that if the parvo titre is sufficient, then immunity is good for both.

[westielover]

My understanding is that 1:5 is still a response but may be lower because there are very low distemper levels in our area; therefore she may not been exposed?

Spot on!

According to Dr Jean Dodds - 1:5 is still a response. My 10 year old westie had a 1:5 response for parvo about 5 years ago and I chose not to re-vaccinate. He hasn't been vaccinated since and he's fine AND I have had many a pound dog through our house.

The other thing to take into consideration is 'cellular immunity'. Cellular immunity works in the individual cells, keeping records from past experiences with invaders and recognising them should they ever return. This means that even if the titre response is zero - it may mean that the dog has not been exposed to the disease in recent times and therefore there are no antibodies in the blood at time of testing - however, that doesn't mean the immunity does not exist. Antibodies in the system will diminish over time if there is no new exposure to the disease or vaccination against it. This is where 'cellular immunity' comes into play - it's all kept in the memory banks until needed!

The thing I have found most interesting is kennel cough. The 2 westies & springer cross haven't been vaccinated for 5 years and during that 5 years I have fostered many pound dogs. Some foster dogs had terrible kennel cough - so bad that they had green gunk coming out of their noses and had to go on antibiotics. Never ever did my dogs catch kennel cough. I firmly beleive it's because they are not over vaccinated and are fed a natural diet. Their immune system is so strong that they never get sick. The only things we are coming up against these days is a few "senior dog' lumps and bumps. Looking at them - you probably wouldn't know they were 10 & 11.

My kelpie on the other hand has only had one vaccination that I know of. I don't know his puppy vaccination history - he came from a country pound at around 12 mths of age - he's now about 2-ish, so I am planning to vaccinate one more time in the next month or so and then it will be titre tests every couple of years.

Personally, if I had a dog with allergies I wouldn't vaccinate based on that titre response. I reckon her parvo response was higher because she has probably been exposed to parvo hence the antibodies in her blood. Parvo is around much more than distemper.

Hmmm - I just re-read your original post - how old is your girl? If she's just turned 1 then you should probably consider vaccinating one more time. Dr Jean Dodds vaccination protocol is as follows:

9-10 weeks - Distemper + Parvovirus

14 weeks - Distemper + Parvovirus

16-18 weeks - Distemper + Parvovirus, (this vaccination is optional)

1 year - Distemper + Parvovirus

She recommends not vaccinating a puppy before 8-9 weeks of age because they obtain immunity from their mum.

It's always a tricky decision deciding whether to vaccinate or not. You wonder if you're making the right choice or not. I have chosen not to vaccinate and am quite comfortable with the decision based on my experiences with fostering and the fact that my dogs are so healthy because they are not over vaccinated. A vet will NEVER tell you NOT to vaccinate because of possible liability issues. Good vets will inform you enough to make your own choice

Think about it this way. As humans we have injections. Rubella shots last about 10 years. Tetanus shots last for 10 years. Babies have their shots as babies and never again. Why do our pets get vaccinated EVERY year???? (I worked for a company once, years ago, who agve free annual flu injections. I had 2 injections in 2 years and I was so sick with every form of flu in that 2 years!!! Never had that damn injection again!! )

I would much rather take my dogs to the vet every year for titre tests, general bloodwork and a general check up - instead of vaccinating them every year.

[Mason_Gibbs]

Mason also had a borderline response for distemper i am retesting in oct which is 12 months later but vet said not to stress as its very rare

[oakway]

Always remember that it may only be low because the dog has not been exposed to the disease.

On the other hand the dog may have been exposed to the disease and that is why the reading was high.

With a very high reading I would have thought the vaccine was and is doing it's job.

[Bisart Dobes]

If she were my dog & at her age I would do this vacc. Albiet several years since I stopped vet nursing all the papers I read strongly suggested that the first annual vaccination is much needed for full protection. It was after that that titre testing + results = vacc or not.

Still your choice.

[Staff'n'Toller]

It's also likely Westielover, that your house dogs get a nice continuous exposure to KC to keep their immunity high.

My dogs are the same.

The vet basically read out what vetpath recommends ie. dog with a distemper of 1/5-1/20 should be revaccinated.

I think Jean Dodds would say that if you re-vacc, you will get a temporary rise in levels i.e. 3mths, then it will return to previous 1/5.

I had the same with my Toller - but as there is immunity there, just no recent evidence of immune challenges, I've chosen to do nothing.

[Dju]

Always remember that it may only be low because the dog has not been exposed to the disease.

On the other hand the dog may have been exposed to the disease and that is why the reading was high.

With a very high reading I would have thought the vaccine was and is doing it's job.

This is what I thought as well. But if you think like this then titre testing becomes practically pointless since either high/low result can mean "still protected"

[kayla1]

Bumping this old thread rather than starting a new one.

Just adding the parvo titre test results for a couple of my dogs. Maxie's result was greater than 80, and Annie's was less than 5.

It's probably been about three years since they had their last vaccination. The vet did explain that Annie may still have immunity, but I guess because it was the parvo result I decided to give her the C3 anyway. It's hard to know what to do though with low results.

[Erny]

It's also likely Westielover, that your house dogs get a nice continuous exposure to KC to keep their immunity high.

This is the part I either don't understand, or think we often misunderstand.

To me, immunity is immunity. Doesn't immunity mean the body recognises the disease and therefore has the anti-bodies (or, as time and low or no exposure goes by, the "memory" of the antibodies) in preparedness to combat the introduction of the disease should the dog contract it?

Is there really such a thing as "more immune" or "higher immunity"?

I don't think so - not how I understand it.

You're either immune or not immune, no?

This question not directed to you specifically or inparticular, SnT - just using your quote as the example of what I'm referring to :).

Edited January 17, 2013 by Erny

[Steve]

Yep if the dog is immune its immune - high or low doesn't count.

If it were my dog I wouldn't do it.

[kayla1]

If that's the case, either dogs are immune or they're not, then I wonder what the reason is for giving titre test results in levels?

[Erny]

If that's the case, either dogs are immune or they're not, then I wonder what the reason is for giving titre test results in levels?

I guess the results are what the laboratories who run the tests gather - they're merely passing them on. I think there is some interest in them, as it does seem to indicate whether there has been 'recent' exposure or not. More importantly, I think, if the titre is done in 2 weeks after a (eg first and/or second) vaccination, it would reveal the success of sero-conversion.

I'm with Steve - if I know the immunity is there, I wouldn't re-vaccinate over.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Erny

[kayla1]

If that's the case, either dogs are immune or they're not, then I wonder what the reason is for giving titre test results in levels?

I guess the results are what the laboratories who run the tests gather - they're merely passing them on. I think there is some interest in them, as it does seem to indicate whether there has been 'recent' exposure or not. More importantly, I think, if the titre is done in 2 weeks after a (eg first and/or second) vaccination, it would reveal the success of sero-conversion.

I'm with Steve - if I know the immunity is there, I wouldn't re-vaccinate over.

Thanks Erny. She did get the C3 earlier today, I decided to give it to her when I was chatting to the vet about the results. Perhaps it was unnecessary then. If it had been one of my older dogs then I wouldn't have considered revaccinating. It's just hard to know sometimes whether you are doing the right thing!