*Lolapalooza* Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 'Also it would greatly reduce the small breeders from indiscriminate breeding.' This was taken from the OP original statement.....it's certainly news to me that only 'small breeders' breed indiscriminately. Does this mean that since I have had 3 litters (unquestionably a small breeder)in 10 years my breeding is more likely to be indiscriminate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerzeit Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 This thread has had some very good replies Thank your for your constructive imput. I opened this thread with a little of my history (as I had a idea that someone would get personal and not stay with the thread) and sure enough it became personal for only a couple of peoples. To those your questions did not warrant an answer. Our chosen sport is quite expensive and requires dedication and you need to be prepared for that if you are serious about breeding/showing dogs. Of course anyone living in WA, Tasmania, the NT or remote from metro areas and specialty locations should have to haemorrhage financially to attend specialties - where they exist. Otherwise they lack "dedicaton". I find that patronising in the extreme. Well said I just found it extremely rude.............. Another "Well Said" from me I found it both rude and patronising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Live in Tas and see how hard and expensive it is to off the Island. Only 2 ways Plane and boat. Planes come in "most" days in the morning and go out at night, low and behold if the plane is not full it does not go. Also you have to find a flight that can take dogs on it not all provide for dogs. If you live in the South you have a trip North to catch the boat and that is not cheap if you have a wagon and if you tow a trailer it is a lot extra. You may purchase a cabin at extra cost or pay the fee for and use the air plane type chair for overnight sleeping. You also have to buy your meals they are not included in the fares. And don't forget you pay the same on the way back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buruma Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 The integrity of the system relies on dogs being judged to a standard as prescribed by their breed standard, judges worth their salt will not award dogs that don't meet the standard - whether in all breeds or specialty. It's unrealistic to imagine the conditions that you are suggesting and it has been pointed-out by many others in this thread that such a system would be prejudicial and would penalise breeds that have a small population as well as those that are disadvantaged by geography. If that's what you really think then put your money where your mouth is and come and do some shows in your own regional area and support your local breed clubs. Without the local clubs there are no dog shows. For that matter, have you been to a specialty recently? I show a rarer breed and was part of the formation of our first breed club in NSW. We have held a specialty show for three years that attracts around 25 entries from a small group of breeders, many dogs exhibited are from the same lines. Our population of owners/breeders is small and dispersed across the state and the country - it is unreasonable to expect people to travel vast distances - but under your conditions watch these smaller breeds die a sudden death. In the case of my breed they are part of our national heritage and history and I would hate to see that happen. I hope the strong response to your post has received will help you to see the bigger picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buruma Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 'Also it would greatly reduce the small breeders from indiscriminate breeding.' This was taken from the OP original statement.....it's certainly news to me that only 'small breeders' breed indiscriminately. Does this mean that since I have had 3 litters (unquestionably a small breeder)in 10 years my breeding is more likely to be indiscriminate? *fail* for me then, I have bred two litters in 10 years ;) I would have thought larger breeders more likely to breed indiscriminately! Wonder how many litters the poster has had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 The integrity of the system relies on dogs being judged to a standard as prescribed by their breed standard, judges worth their salt will not award dogs that don't meet the standard - whether in all breeds or specialty. And if some "breeders" stopped putting shit in the ring, then judges would not have to non-award them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CaptainCourageous Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 The governing bodies need to change the way Champion Titles are obtained ... bulldust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 The integrity of the system relies on dogs being judged to a standard as prescribed by their breed standard, judges worth their salt will not award dogs that don't meet the standard - whether in all breeds or specialty. And if some "breeders" stopped putting shit in the ring, then judges would not have to non-award them! True, but if they are not good enough and they get non awarded often enough it might just sink im! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 The integrity of the system relies on dogs being judged to a standard as prescribed by their breed standard, judges worth their salt will not award dogs that don't meet the standard - whether in all breeds or specialty. And if some "breeders" stopped putting shit in the ring, then judges would not have to non-award them! True, but if they are not good enough and they get non awarded often enough it might just sink im! Dreamin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertybrook Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) I saw a judge non-award several dogs only last weekend, and the judge was very good and explained why,so it does happen, bit hard to place at a specialty, when there are not enough of your breed or breeders in the country to even have a club let alone a show, and up until just recentlly she was the only one of her breed being shown in the last 3 years in NSW, I have travelled interstate for competition, but she is still a BIG, class in show winner etc, under both local and international judges, now thanks to the arrival of new babies from interstate, now we will have 4 or 5 competing on a regular basis in NSW, hopefully ;) the sire of the new babies is GR CH and has had 10 x BIS all breeds, their imported mother is a BIG/RUBIG winner, so under your criteria they would also have to win at specialty level to get their titles ?? and we regularly have the so called big city faces competng out here against us country bumpkins, lol, and they dont always win :D I also show a "common breed", we have had two litters in 10 years, first litter produced a GR CH, 3 CH's, BIS, Multiple BIG's class in show wins at all breeds and specilaty level, class wins and placings at both Sydney and Brisbane Royals, two pups from the recent litter are being shown both nearing their titles, and we show in both the city and country, Country people have no choice to use a lot of PETROL/DIESEL to get to shows, lol Edited July 7, 2011 by Libertybrook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 The integrity of the system relies on dogs being judged to a standard as prescribed by their breed standard, judges worth their salt will not award dogs that don't meet the standard - whether in all breeds or specialty. And if some "breeders" stopped putting shit in the ring, then judges would not have to non-award them! True, but if they are not good enough and they get non awarded often enough it might just sink im! Dreamin' MAybe, but that is their job, they are the judge and they have the final say don't they. If they do not think the dogs are good enough, they should non-award simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I saw a judge non-award several dogs only last weekend, and the judge was very good and explained why,so it does happen, bit hard to place at a specialty, when there are not enough of your breed or breeders in the country to even have a club let alone a show, and up until just recentlly she was the only one of her breed being shown in the last 3 years in NSW, I have travelled interstate for competition, but she is still a BIG, class in show winner etc, under both local and international judges, now thanks to the arrival of new babies from interstate, now we will have 4 or 5 competing on a regular basis in NSW, hopefully ;) the sire of the new babies is GR CH and has had 10 x BIS all breeds, their imported mother is a BIG/RUBIG winner, so under your criteria they would also have to win at specialty level to get their titles ?? and we regularly have the so called big city faces competng out here against us country bumpkins, lol, and they dont always win :D I also show a "common breed", we have had two litters in 10 years, first litter produced a GR CH, 3 CH's, BIS, Multiple BIG's class in show wins at all breeds and specilaty level, class wins and placings at both Sydney and Brisbane Royals, two pups from the recent litter are being shown both nearing their titles, and we show in both the city and country, Country people have no choice to use a lot of PETROL/DIESEL to get to shows, lol :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 :rofl: :rofl: They sure do!!!! One ET and a CCD pass around $400 to $500 and I didn't have to pay for accomodation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 The integrity of the system relies on dogs being judged to a standard as prescribed by their breed standard, judges worth their salt will not award dogs that don't meet the standard- whether in all breeds or specialty. And if some "breeders" stopped putting shit in the ring, then judges would not have to non-award them! True, but if they are not good enough and they get non awarded often enough it might just sink im! Dreamin' MAybe, but that is their job, they are the judge and they have the final say don't they. If they do not think the dogs are good enough, they should non-award simple. We are talking about the breeders and exhibitors not the judges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 The integrity of the system relies on dogs being judged to a standard as prescribed by their breed standard, judges worth their salt will not award dogs that don't meet the standard- whether in all breeds or specialty. And if some "breeders" stopped putting shit in the ring, then judges would not have to non-award them! True, but if they are not good enough and they get non awarded often enough it might just sink im! Dreamin' MAybe, but that is their job, they are the judge and they have the final say don't they. If they do not think the dogs are good enough, they should non-award simple. We are talking about the breeders and exhibitors not the judges Yep your right, sorry! And yes you would hope the exhibitor would get the idea that maybe their dog is not good enough, although I guess if a judge does occassionally award the dog then they will keep coming back. So I suppose that that changes with a particular persons interpretation on the standard. Do people keep going back with a dog if it is non-awarded a few times? I wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Do people keep going back with a dog if it is non-awarded a few times? I wouldn't. I know several in my breed who have (same people with different dogs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Do people keep going back with a dog if it is non-awarded a few times? I wouldn't. I know several in my breed who have (same people with different dogs) I have seen the SAME dog non-awarded at least 10 times. Each time the exhibitor asked why it was not given its Challenge, they were given the same answer. I am not sure if they kept going because it HAD been awarded in the past (and I truly hope not as it was a major and obvious fault) or if they didn't believe the judges. They had a bitch which was a nice example of the breed and were always awarded challenges for her so not sure why they kept going with the other one..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CaptainCourageous Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Do people keep going back with a dog if it is non-awarded a few times? I wouldn't. Some dogs are non-awarded for poor temperament. That can be worked on. Some dogs are non-awarded for petty injuries (e.g. slight limps) that they recover from. Some dogs are non-awarded for being so far away from the standard that it's ridiculous. Problem is that they a not always non-awarded. When I steward I enjoy encountering judges who refuse Challenges. It means they are taking their role seriously. I made lots of comment when the Grand Champion rules were altered, even having a letter to Dog News Australia published. I don't feel a need to repeat myself. I felt the OP's comments on the Australian Champion were petty speculation without expressing ideas that were adequate justification for engaging our consideration. CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I have seen the SAME dog non-awarded at least 10 times. Each time the exhibitor asked why it was not given its Challenge, they were given the same answer. I am not sure if they kept going because it HAD been awarded in the past (and I truly hope not as it was a major and obvious fault) or if they didn't believe the judges. They had a bitch which was a nice example of the breed and were always awarded challenges for her so not sure why they kept going with the other one..... Me too! it had an obvious fault (very obvious!) yet I had also seen it awarded the CC on many occassions (albeit, unopposed - but it should have been non-awarded)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Do people keep going back with a dog if it is non-awarded a few times? I wouldn't. I know several in my breed who have (same people with different dogs) Well I guess they are not put off easily, but geez they mustn't be the sharpest tools in the shed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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