Champions

[SnoPaws]

Reading all the various comments re this post it is not rocket science to work out that regional people do it a lot tougher in many areas compared to the metro people , not just in dog shows.

If the judges put up less than quality dogs just to get a return invite ,shame on them. If the judge puts an exhibit up and as per the regulations sign off on the Challenge acknowledging the quality in his eyes so be it. I myself have been to shows with my breed being the only member of his/her breed in attendance, what am I supposed to do go home ?

As has been mentioned, at most country shows there are always plenty of city slickers... so what.

We arent' playing for sheep stations, just enjoy your dogs' and the day out.

A lot of judges in country shows play payback , you know it ,and I know it just peruse through the journals each month.The Canine bodies sponsor this blatant behaviour by their inaction to address it , heads in the sand stuff.

[Rebanne]

I have a rare breed as well. She got almost to champion status without beating another dog because there wasn't one entered! She won more than her fair share of classes in group but under your criteria she should not have champion status. In the end, we purchased another one of the same breed because they would at least compete against each other. Plenty of good judges including international judges, tell me that they are good examples of the breed so why shouldn't they earn their champions????

You have your GSD becase you like the breed. I have my rare one because I prefer them. I have been here a couple of years now and really get offended the way some of the been around for years, bred heaps of champions In a popular breed, look down on those of us who don't fit your narrow view of the dog showing world. At least we are out there, showing and trying to maintain the rare breeds we love. If my reward for keeping a rare breed In existence for a while longer with my petrol, no competition champion is a 'cheap' title then I figure I deserve it.

I just want to say Bravo!!!!

me too

funny how these threads are usually started by someone with a "common" breed.

[TessnSean]

Thank you Josuki and Rebanne. You are both posters I respect so I appreciate your comments.

[SwaY]

Just get judges to refuse challenges to dogs not worthy and the problem is solved. I have seen challenges refused in the past so am not sure what the problem is.

Judges are damn if they do and damned if they don't.

They refuse Challenges and people whinge, they don't and people whinge.

I would like to see it happen more often.

[Dogsfevr]

funny how these threads are usually started by someone with a "common" breed.

and live in a state where they have easy access to options.

And those that tend to whinger/bitch the most aren't judges either

[Bilbo Baggins]

For those people with a "petrol champion" its 17 shows of 6 points. Thats a lot of hard work.

For a metro show with good numbers its 4 25 pointers.

And it can be hard work for the also rans week after week trying to get points.

As someone stated its to have fun and enjoy your dogs and points are an added bonus.

I enjoy getting whatever of breed. Which can be followed by a group and in show win. Not to be sneezed at IMO.

[WreckitWhippet]

What about breeds where they do have a specialty but it is small? So every dog can qualify anyway simply by paying their petrol money and turning up

Just get judges to refuse challenges to dogs not worthy and the problem is solved. I have seen challenges refused in the past so am not sure what the problem is.

The "problem" as I see it is that some folk think its too easy to gain a title.

And yet, you can go anywhere in this country and hit metro based folk with GR CH's.

LovemyGSD, just out of interest, are you currently exhibiting a dog?

The country folk have their fair share of GR CH's too.

[Skye2]

For those people with a "petrol champion" its 17 shows of 6 points. Thats a lot of hard work.

For a metro show with good numbers its 4 25 pointers.

And it can be hard work for the also rans week after week trying to get points.

As someone stated its to have fun and enjoy your dogs and points are an added bonus.

I enjoy getting whatever of breed. Which can be followed by a group and in show win. Not to be sneezed at IMO.

I just enjoy it if my dogs show well, the weather is good and i have a great day out with my doggies, and yes i totally agree points are a bonus albiet 6 points or 25 points.

[espinay2]

I don't know about other regions, but this region for one can have very strong competition across the breeds at country shows. I am talking quality even if the numbers may be a little less than at some big city metro shows. I honestly dont think the 'country versus city' thing is overly relevant these days.

Agree with comments from folks with rarer breeds. It can be frustrating some times when the only way to get competition at breed level is to bring your own. With big dogs such as mine it can be a challenge to prepare and show more than a couple at a time and a champion may be made up of 6 and 7 pointers. Still, it hasn't stopped our breed winning at the in Group and in Show level.

Yes, we try and travel interstate if possible to compete against others in the breed and have done well. As mentioned though, the logistics of such a trip with large dogs takes planning so once or twice a year is all we usually manage.

Frankly, sometimes not having competition in the breed can get frustrating and has its own issues. But our dogs have still earned their titles fairly and squarely and I for one don't appreciate them being brushed off as 'cheaply won' just because a breed happens to be less numeric.

Note you will also rarley find any of my breed in need of rescue so if breeders are trading on their 'cheap champions' it certainly isn't showing up there.

Edited July 4, 2011 by espinay2

[Bilbo Baggins]

espinay2 that is so correct you might get a 6 point challenge but then get group ru group and whatever in show.

That all counts. :thumbsup:

[poodlefan]

And yet, you can go anywhere in this country and hit metro based folk with GR CH's.

LovemyGSD, just out of interest, are you currently exhibiting a dog?

The country folk have their fair share of GR CH's too.

But they are only petrol GR CH's apparently. ;)

[Rebanne]

with the price of petrol they are not cheap champions at all

[Astese]

Lots of comments

some constructive others well I accept because that is your ideas same as this thread was my idea. Now to those that asked questions about me personally. Yes I have Judged (Speciality Shows). Yes I do show GSDs and show at Speciality Shows Only (because I to Live In The County Where There Are Only a Few Shows a Year).

I did not see what these personal questions had to do with Cheep Champions but I did answer your thread anyway as what have I to lose.

The rare breeds are certainly a problem but could be easily solved by requiring say 4-Best of Breed placing. I have known people who lived in Perth,Darwin, Adelaide and Hobart who travel to Speciality Shows in Sydney and Newcastle so I cant understand the locality being such a handicap.

I admit that our CHs were gained in the Metro Area as there were quite a lot of shows we could attend at that time. There are still a lot of country people who attend Metro Shows so it would come down to ones dedication in travelling or not.

The other point is that I have NEVER seen a Judge not award a place let alone a Challenge . I have observed a bitch awarded a Challenge that could hardly move around the show ring. That particular animal is now a CH and will probably be breed from. This is what I am about - someone will buy a puppy with the same problem as its dam. Do we as responsible people allow this or do we try to tighten up the CHs being awarded.

Any Ideas.

[poodlefan]

I am sometimes struck by the irony of a thought process that will see the same folk who constantly lament the decline of entries at shows, point fingers at the objectivity of the judges and the quality of dogs made up to Champion status.

They lament the lack of new faces to the fancy but won't sell a dog to a show newb (or indeed to anyone on Main Register) or allow their stud dog to be used outside their own kennel.

This behaviour reaches fever pitch on Ozshow. I rarely bother to read posts there anymore. Leaving aside the brags and the offtopic stuff, either the sky is falling, the judges are crooked, someone's dogs are crap or all of the above. And then we have the constant "hear hears" from a few posters adding no value at all.

We don't need to look outside the purebred dog fancy for the source of the decline in numbers.. we have enough folk contributing to it from within.

I do think the term "petrol champion" is an insulting one. The system exists to refuse dogs challenges. Lets stick with it.

LovemyGSD:

The other point is that I have NEVER seen a Judge not award a place let alone a Challenge

You need to get out more.. I've seen it reasonably frequently. Not in Group 5 but definitely in Groups 3,4 and 7

I've seen an entire Challenge line up refused CC. I've seen BOB refused. And I've definitely seen plenty of classes refused.

I've seen dogs excused from the ring too. Mind you, this was all in the country.

Edited July 5, 2011 by poodlefan

[whiskedaway]

The other point is that I have NEVER seen a Judge not award a place let alone a Challenge . I have observed a bitch awarded a Challenge that could hardly move around the show ring. That particular animal is now a CH and will probably be breed from. This is what I am about - someone will buy a puppy with the same problem as its dam. Do we as responsible people allow this or do we try to tighten up the CHs being awarded.

I on the other hand HAVE seen a judge refuse challenge, and yes it was group 5. I have seen a whole lineup of males from a particular breed refused challenge, in group 5. It definitely does happen.

Edited July 5, 2011 by whiskedaway

[Rebanne]

The rare breeds are certainly a problem but could be easily solved by requiring say 4-Best of Breed placing. I have known people who lived in Perth,Darwin, Adelaide and Hobart who travel to Speciality Shows in Sydney and Newcastle so I cant understand the locality being such a handicap.

glad some people have plenty of money and time to travel all over the country side to specialities. Glad they have specialities to go to.

you have no idea

[poodlefan]

The rare breeds are certainly a problem but could be easily solved by requiring say 4-Best of Breed placing. I have known people who lived in Perth,Darwin, Adelaide and Hobart who travel to Speciality Shows in Sydney and Newcastle so I cant understand the locality being such a handicap.

In a truely rare breed, they have to get 17 BOBs (x 6 points) now.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

LovemyGSD:

The other point is that I have NEVER seen a Judge not award a place let alone a Challenge

You need to get out more.. I've seen it reasonably frequently. Not in Group 5 but definitely in Groups 3,4 and 7

I've seen an entire Challenge line up refused CC. I've seen BOB refused. And I've definitely seen plenty of classes refused.

I've seen dogs excused from the ring too. Mind you, this was all in the country.

I've seen it too. A good judge also does it discreetly and a mature and street-smart exhibitor doesn't react obviously in the ring. Unless you watch all the judging very closely, or you often volunteer to write cards or you run shows, you probably will not even know it's happened.

[SparkyTansy]

The other point is that I have NEVER seen a Judge not award a place let alone a Challenge . I have observed a bitch awarded a Challenge that could hardly move around the show ring. That particular animal is now a CH and will probably be breed from. This is what I am about - someone will buy a puppy with the same problem as its dam. Do we as responsible people allow this or do we try to tighten up the CHs being awarded.

I on the other hand HAVE seen a judge refuse challenge, and yes it was group 5.

I have also seen a whole lineup of males from a particular breed refused challenge, once again group 5. It definitely does happen.

I too have seen dogs refused challenge in Group 5. If it is specialty shows you attend that you have not seen a challenge refused, perhaps you need to question whether the judges that are being selected are fit for the judging post? Perhaps the nature of a specialty which pressures judges to award all places? maybe we should get rid of specialties :p

it would not be the place of anyone to make assumptions on peoples personal circumstances, by saying that they must attend a specialty to get a champion. it could even be seen as discrimination on some levels. To say you know people that have travelled interstate from perth and other states, so it can't be that hard, is, quite frankly, so one-eyed i almost can't believe that it was written.

What if part of gaining a title was that people must attend an all breeds show, but some people only enter specialty shows? i am sure that people would be unhappy with that also. Who is to say a specialty is better than an all breeds show?

Edited July 5, 2011 by SparkyTansy

[lappiemum]

LuvMyGSD - it sounds as though you have a great many opinions on many breeds. Perhaps you should look at becoming a Judge yourself? ;)