Great News For Dals In The Usa

[shortstep]

I have just read that the US Dalmatian breed club, has finally agreed to allow the disease free low uric acid level Dalmatians to be registered! The disease gene free Dals are now 14 generations past the original cross done to bring in a health gene to the Dalmatian population. This is great news for Dal breeders and Dal owners in the US!

The US Dal breed club had blocked allowing in the disease gene free Dals for more than 20 years, even though AKC was in favor of registering the disease gene free Dals. This vote followed a report from an AKC panel of experts strongly advising in favor of bringing into the stud book the Dals that do not carry the defective gene. It also followed The Kennel Club UK admitting them last year. There was also constant pressure applied by many Dal owners and breeders around the world, many in the fields of science and genetics, and countless others.

Side note, Usually 3 generation of breeding the F1 or 50/50 cross bred back to purebreds makes the animal considered a purebred again at F4. Even being very cautious, using 5 generations would make the dogs an F6 or 98.9% purebred.

What is the status in ANKC on the low uric acid Dals, can they now be used in ANKC?

I can't seem to find any information on this.

Edited July 2, 2011 by shortstep

[The Spotted Devil]

I'm delighted

Not sure what this means for ANKC but as UK and USA now has registered these dogs I can't see why progeny or semen can't be imported. I'd like my next Dally (not for aaaages!) to be LUA.

[SmoothieGirl]

BUMP...this is real news!

This is fascinating and quite a test case/precedent for other breed clubs concerned with high rates of genetic issues.

I had no idea what you were talking about, went off to investigate and found this site, which educated me without too much scientifica.

http://www.luadalmatians.com/

Absolutely fascinating and heart warming too, something like this is a brilliant example of pedigree breed groups taking responsibility for correcting issues with their breeds.

Now if only those sensationalist media hounds would pick up on something informative, fact based and educational such as this, rather than the constant pure breed bashing they insist upon.

Edited July 2, 2011 by SmoothieGirl

[The Spotted Devil]

It was a reasonably close vote too and a lot of vigorous debate from both sides. I think breed clubs must take the lead on these matters and be proactive.

[shortstep]

BUMP...this is real news!

This is fascinating and quite a test case/precedent for other breed clubs concerned with high rates of genetic issues.

I had no idea what you were talking about, went off to investigate and found this site, which educated me without too much scientifica.

http://www.luadalmatians.com/

Absolutely fascinating and heart warming too, something like this is a brilliant example of pedigree breed groups taking responsibility for correcting issues with their breeds.

Now if only those sensationalist media hounds would pick up on something informative, fact based and educational such as this, rather than the constant pure breed bashing they insist upon.

Yes it is the perfect case for science and dogs, and a perfect case that one person against the odds and against his peers wishes can do wonderful things, and a clear case of how the culture and rules in kennel clubs can make it almost impossible for their dogs to bennifit.

I do not think the breed clubs for Dals have a lot to brag about in this case, nor do I think most of their member are that happy to bragg about the dogs entering their kennel clubs.

You need to dig deeper. It was one person who had the idea and did the cross breeding. Scores of folks working outside the kennel that kept breeding these healthy dogs for 20 years. He nor the breeders, are hailed a hero by most in the dal breed clubs, he and the breeders were called crossbreeders by many.

This work happened 20 years ago or more, and the Dal breed club of America (and just about everywhere else) refused to let the the dogs into the registry for those 20 years. Mostly they said because these dogs were not purebreds. Some because they are afriad what the 1 cross in 14 genrations (the % is so small I cannot even do that math) ago might bring into the breed LOL. Many still feel this way today and they will avoid using these dog or any dog that comes down from them.

As far as I know it was the British kennel club accepting them just last year that was the turning point. I think they only did as they are truely under the gun by their government and the RSPCA, and this was a glaring case that proved that pureity comes before health. So they had no choice and had to take them. The whole world of dogs had know about this for 20 years and it really was shameful that it took a government inquiry in to the welfare of pedigree dog breeding practices to get it done.

Then in the US the AKC also began to pushed hard on the Dal parent club too and i am sure for the same reasons, with a panel of experts basically saying the game was up, take these dogs in. So they voted and as you can see by the vote it was still far from a landside, many breeders still do not want these dogs in and they will not be using them.

I am not sure at all that these healthy Dals can be used in the ANKC??

Still waiting to hear from a breeder on this list,

but my guess since no one has come on and said they can be,

is they are not allowed to be used in Australia.

Edited July 2, 2011 by shortstep

[perrin]

I think breed clubs must take the lead on these matters and be proactive.

Yes. Agree. It will be interesting to see if Australia follows.

[shortstep]

I think breed clubs must take the lead on these matters and be proactive.

Yes. Agree. It will be interesting to see if Australia follows.

Ok so I guess that means that the disease free dals are still not allowed in the ANKC, so all pups bought from ANKC breeders do not have the diesase free gene.

So what will take for the parent club to do something, it has been 20 years?

Maybe we can have the honor of following the UK and US pathway to change. Prime time evening TV coverage, followed by a government inquiry into the welfare of breeding in the ANKC. The Gardener and the RSPCA doing the morning TV rounds and all ending in government panel of experts writing a formal letters to the parent club saying game over now.

.

[sandgrubber]

Here's a blog link on this that gives a little more background:

http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/2011_07_01_archive.html

for people who think the pedigree dogs exposed thing is all negative . . . here's the enthusiastic side of JH.

[poodlefan]

I think breed clubs must take the lead on these matters and be proactive.

Yes. Agree. It will be interesting to see if Australia follows.

Ok so I guess that means that the disease free dals are still not allowed in the ANKC, so all pups bought from ANKC breeders do not have the diesase free gene.

So what will take for the parent club to do something, it has been 20 years?

Maybe we can have the honor of following the UK and US pathway to change. Prime time evening TV coverage, followed by a government inquiry into the welfare of breeding in the ANKC. The Gardener and the RSPCA doing the morning TV rounds and all ending in government panel of experts writing a formal letters to the parent club saying game over now.

.

I don't see how disease free Dals can be allowed in the ANKC registry if there are none in the country. If the dogs are registered by the CC in their country of origin, they'll be registered when they get here.

[shortstep]

I think breed clubs must take the lead on these matters and be proactive.

Yes. Agree. It will be interesting to see if Australia follows.

Ok so I guess that means that the disease free dals are still not allowed in the ANKC, so all pups bought from ANKC breeders do not have the diesase free gene.

So what will take for the parent club to do something, it has been 20 years?

Maybe we can have the honor of following the UK and US pathway to change. Prime time evening TV coverage, followed by a government inquiry into the welfare of breeding in the ANKC. The Gardener and the RSPCA doing the morning TV rounds and all ending in government panel of experts writing a formal letters to the parent club saying game over now.

.

I don't see how disease free Dals can be allowed in the ANKC registry if there are none in the country. If the dogs are registered by the CC in their country of origin, they'll be registered when they get here.

Aw well perhaps you need to let the UK know that as they registered them prior to them being the AKC. Opps just a big mistake in the rush to breed health dogs I suppose.

Someone just wispered in my ear that they have also been accepted in some of the european countries for a few years now, again it must have been a mistake in the rush to breed health dogs. I will look around the web and see if can find out which countries when I have time.

Edited July 3, 2011 by shortstep

[poodlefan]

Aw well perhaps you need to let the UK know that as they registered them prior to them being the AKC. Opps just a big mistake in the rush to breed health dogs I suppose.

Someone just wispered in my ear that they have also been accepted in some of the european countries for a few years now, again it must have been a mistake in the rush to breed health dogs. I will look around the web and see if can find out which countries when I have time.

What on earth are you on about?? How can the ANKC recognise a dog if there aren't any here. Are you suggested that unregistered dogs be imported and used?

If you're talking about dogs that don't carry a gene, that's one thing. There are plenty of disease free Dals in the country. Lets not lose sight of that.

Edited July 3, 2011 by poodlefan

[shortstep]

Aw well perhaps you need to let the UK know that as they registered them prior to them being the AKC. Opps just a big mistake in the rush to breed health dogs I suppose.

Someone just wispered in my ear that they have also been accepted in some of the european countries for a few years now, again it must have been a mistake in the rush to breed health dogs. I will look around the web and see if can find out which countries when I have time.

What on earth are you on about?? How can the ANKC recognise a dog if there aren't any here. Are you suggested that unregistered dogs be imported and used?

If you're talking about dogs that don't carry a gene, that's one thing. There are plenty of disease free Dals in the country. Lets not lose sight of that.

Oh dear I see the problem.

All dals, all of them in the kennel clubs that is, have two copies of the gene for the uric acid disease. They all have the disease, it is just some get much sicker than others (won't go in to the ins and outs of that, but you can read up on it).

So that is why the outcross was done in the first plact, there were no normal genes in the Dals, so to bring in a normal gene they had to go to another breed. The dals that come from this cross breeding now all carry either 1 or 2 normal genes. The dogs with 2 normal genes can be bred to any of the dog in the Australian ANKC, and the resulting pups will not have the disease.

Here is a bit about it, though this might need to be updated a bit.

All present day LUA Descendants are heterozygous for the specific gene, i.e. they have one normal copy and one recessive copy . Their genotype is [uu], and their phenotype is normal canine urinary uric acid, which is called Low Uric Acid - LUA. All AKC registered Dalmatians are homozygous recessive, i.e. they have two copies of the recessive gene , which gives them a genotype of [uu] and a phenotype of High Uric Acid - HUA.

If you breed an LUA Descendant [uu] to an AKC registered Dalmatian [uu], theoretically 1/2 of the puppies will be [uu] or LUA, and 1/2 of the puppies will be [uu] or HUA. Nature doesn't always follow the laws of probability and statistics, particularly in small litters of 6 or 7 puppies. There are now 7 known pure dominants that exist today [uU]. It is likely that breeding LUAs to LUAs will produce more homozygous dominants [uU] in the future.

http://www.luadalmatians.com/Basics.html

Now what I was on about was you said, that ANKC could not register the normal dals until they were registered in the US, I pointed out that other countires had not waited for that. You also said that no dogs that had the disease free genes had been inported, if that is so, then I can certainly see why, Who would import a dog for $10,000 or more in costs that can not be registered into the ANKC or be used to help the breed in ANKC. Tthat would be putting the cart before the horse. The first thing that needs to happen isf for either ANKC to override the OZ parent club and say we are registereding these dog now, or for the parent club to tell ANKC to do it. Then you import a dog.

Edited July 3, 2011 by shortstep

[The Spotted Devil]

Yes, every Dal has the recessive genes predisposing them to suffer from uric acid stones. I have asked for further info on my Dal list so will see what the understanding is, time frames etc re importing.

[shortstep]

Yes, every Dal has the recessive genes predisposing them to suffer from uric acid stones. I have asked for further info on my Dal list so will see what the understanding is, time frames etc re importing.

To be totally correct it should be said,

Every dal has 2 of the recessive genes for the disease, making them homozygous, or uu for the disease.

Let us know what is said!

[The Spotted Devil]

Cross posted with kind permission from the author on the Aussie Dals list - apologies for the formatting but I can't be bothered fixing it:

I have been following the LUA's for many years - since well before the

> resurgence of the current breeding program. While the DCA membership

> vote is the majority for registration, the final decision does lie with

> the AKC. They have final say if they will accept the LUA dogs into

> their registry or not. So basically it is now up the AKC to see what

> they decide to do.

>

> See the link below which is a copy of a letter from the AKC to the DCA:-

> http://www.thedca.org/LUA/HennesseyDCA.pdf

>

> *IF* they do become AKC registered, then yes Australians will be able to

> import LUA dogs, and/or frozen semen and the dogs be ANKC recognised.

>

> The LUA dogs are recognised by The Kennel Club (UK), but they do have a

> limitation that no dogs from those lines are exported (this includes

> Frozen semen) for a period of 5 years. If the AKC does not allow

> registration, then eventually (in about 4 years time) Australians will

> be able to import dogs and/or frozen semen from these lines via the UK.

[Steve]

The MDBA registry will accept them now.

[Lowenhart]

Now what I was on about was you said, that ANKC could not register the normal dals until they were registered in the US, I pointed out that other countires had not waited for that. You also said that no dogs that had the disease free genes had been inported, if that is so, then I can certainly see why, Who would import a dog for $10,000 or more in costs that can not be registered into the ANKC or be used to help the breed in ANKC. Tthat would be putting the cart before the horse. The first thing that needs to happen isf for either ANKC to override the OZ parent club and say we are registereding these dog now, or for the parent club to tell ANKC to do it. Then you import a dog.

The "Oz parent club" is not the issue and has no say in this.

It's to do with the reciprocal acknowledgement of pedigree deals done. ANKC only recognises AKC pedigrees for American registered dogs. All the LUA Dallies are UKC registered. Because of the deal, ANKC can not recognise UKC pedigrees.

Once AKC accepts the UKC LUA dogs into their registry then ANKC can register the dogs.

If LUA dogs have FCI pedigrees, those can be imported and registered in Australia.

PS. It can also be 5 generations to be "pure". Depending on who's demanding it.