Doggy Independance / Attachment Questions

[Guest HarperGD]

My pup Harper is only 12 weeks so he's still a little baby but I was wondering around what age do dogs become more independent of their owners?

At present, Harper is my velcro dog. He's okay home alone during the day when we go to work (he cries for a while and then goes to sleep or sets to work destroying one of his toys), but he doesn't like having to be in a separate room to me when I'm home (whinge whinge :p) and won't really wander off and play with himself although he's definitely doing this more and more now.

My question is, at what age do dogs get to a point where they're happy to be left without getting too upset?

For example, I assume the adult dogs tied up outside the supermarket waiting patiently and quietly for their owners would not have acted the same way at 12 weeks old. So what age does the anxiety of being left alone stop and this quiet patience start?

My second question is Harper is very attached to me - more so than my partner, even though my partner feeds him his meals and does most of his training with him.

Will this also change as he gets older?

Thanks for your replies

[Dju]

When Hugo was a puppy he literally would not let us be out of our sight. If I went to the bathroom, he'd bang on the door with his head until we opened it a crack and he could keep an eye on me while I shower :rolleyes: . He started to get better around the 5 month mark, we had taught him a really strong "stay" and we could say it and go do our thing and he'd nap in the place we ordered him to "stay" in. Of course, if we were away from him for more than 15 and making a racket on top of that, he'd naturally go see what we're doing, he's only human dog!

[stonecutter]

Our pup has been independent and happy to play with a toy out of our sight since day 1 (as long as she can come find us if she wants to - if she's in the laundry behind a baby gate she often whines but we just ignore her - usually when I'm vacuuming). But that's what we wanted in a pup - one that has enough independence to be a non-velcro dog - and our breeder selected one accordingly.

[poodlefan]

The short answer to your question is 'potentially, never'. You bought a breed selectively bred for generations to be people focussed and being with you is what they live for. If you're living in an apartment, there is nowhere for Harper to be other than with you.

Your partner is deploying so you are going to be the sole focus of Harper's life for remainder of his growing up phase. Chances are he'll become more focussed on you and you may even get some issues with your partner returning.

I'd not be letting him sleep on the bed in your partner's absence and I'd be doing everything possible to broaden Harper's horizons with training, outings and establishing some doggy friends for him.

I can rarely move rooms in my home without the poodles following me - that's how they are.

ETA: Please don't leave him tied up outside the supermarket - its an unsafe practice.

Edited July 1, 2011 by poodlefan

[W Sibs]

It all depends and how you deal with the situation and depends on your pup, I guess.

Charlie is my dog. Mr CW EW can feed him, play with him or whatever but Charlie will leave him for me in a heartbeat. He is soo chilled though. Nothing phase my boy. He use to whinged when I left him to work as a pup, but that didn't last long. It's like he figured out that I'm always going to go home to him. As he got older, his attitude is 'humans come to me. i do not go to humans'. He has taught humans recall. If he barks or squeal.. humans will run to him to see if he is ok

Emmy, who is prone to anxiety, was taught to be alone from a young age. The first few times where I took Charlie for a walk and she had to stay home, she will scream the house down!! Mr CW EW was very impress with her lungs!! Now, she doesn't like being alone but she won't fuss about it. She usually goes into her crate and lay there and waits. She still whinges a little when I leave the house, but it doesn't last more than a minute.

She use to follow me everywhere, but she likes being near me. I often ignored her though (I'm to busy doing other things to pay her any attention). I don't remember when she stopped following me though, but she still check in with me once in a while but it's more of seeing if I'm doing anything fun and if she can play too :rolleyes:

[Online Pets]

I had a GSD that was like that up until about 9 months old. He was such a sook!

[**Super_Dogs**]

I don't know much about Poodles but from what poodlefan has said it sound like poodles are alot like labradors. When someone buys a labrador puppy from me I tell them that if you would find is annoying having your dog follow you and lie on your feet - a labrador is not the dog for you.

He will get more independent when he gets older - but he is going to always follow you and want to be with you.

If this helps my dog which is the most attached and follows me most is my best dogs at being tied up or cated at training and waiting nicely and quietly.

Edited July 1, 2011 by buddy1

[dancinbcs]

A velcro dog needs to be carefully trained to accept being on his own. Dogs are pack animals and being alone is not something that would happen in a pack situation, so we are asking our dogs to accept something that goes against their instinct to stay with the pack. You need to practice leaving him alone starting with just a few minutes and gradually building up the time over several months. The age doesn't make any difference, they are either totally devoted to you or they are more independent and those traits are quite evident at 8 weeks. In my breed, Border Collies, the males tend to be the devoted ones and the females more independent. Some whole breeds are very independent but even they prefer the company of other dogs to being on their own.

Crate training helps as they learn to stay quietly in their secure crate and know that they will be safe in there until you come back. Mine have all been trained to stay quietly in the car in crates and they know I will always come back to the car. If I visit friends on rural properties my dogs have always been happy to run around so long as I am with them but if I go in the house they just sit at the door and wait for me or get into the car because they know I can't leave without it. Training a dog to stay quietly in a strange place while you go out of sight is a long and difficult process for many dogs.

Edited July 1, 2011 by dancinbcs

[IngeK]

Our longhair is almost 8 and he still follows me everywhere. He is alright when we go to work but when im home "I'm his" my husband can go everywhere and he doesnt care but when I go out of the room he is there with me. Santha stays where she is but Jack doesnt like that idea.

it has never worried me I quite like the fact that he is so attached to me...cos I am to him as well

[persephone]

I agree with poodlefan-

your pup can not go outside & play .. interact with his environment ..even watch teh birds or shadows .. unless he is WITH YOU.

So - in the static , relatively 'sterile' environment of your apartment .. YOU are all there is that is his to relate with , to watch, to learn from.

he needs to have toys changed every day or two. he needs to have food provided in boxes/wrapped up /in treat balls ..in bottles ..AWAY from where you are .

Being independent , and being alone are different , IMO.

When you are at work - he can not be with you. simple.

When you are home .. he needs to learn that he can still be physically away, but 'connected' .he needs to learn about his world by himself..and you need to continually change that environment, provide challenges in the way he does things... and rewards which he can give himself, for accomplishing tasks .

I may be a bit biased - not at all keen on velcro dogs

Edited July 1, 2011 by persephone

[Jumabaar]

When I move around the house I also have a trail of up to 7 dogs behind me (fine until I remember something that I have left behind and try and go straight back down the hallway ).

My dogs go straight to sleep when I leave the house- bones and treat toys are usually where I leave them when I get home. When I am out though they dislike being tied (usually while I am setting crates up) up or left with other people- but are more than happy to sit in their crates and wait for me. That reflects their training though.

I do have a baby gate set up in the hallway so from an early age if I need to I can stop the dogs following me. This also gets them used to me disappearing and coming back.

ETA- So long as you can leave the house without him fretting then having a dog that follows you round the house isn't a big deal. My first girl was minded by my grandparents when I went out so she was almost never left by herself until she was a year old- but this has not had any adverse affects.

Edited July 1, 2011 by ~Woofen~

[**Super_Dogs**]

When I move around the house I also have a trail of up to 7 dogs behind me (fine until I remember something that I have left behind and try and go straight back down the hallway ).

My dogs go straight to sleep when I leave the house- bones and treat toys are usually where I leave them when I get home. When I am out though they dislike being tied (usually while I am setting crates up) up or left with other people- but are more than happy to sit in their crates and wait for me. That reflects their training though.

I do have a baby gate set up in the hallway so from an early age if I need to I can stop the dogs following me. This also gets them used to me disappearing and coming back.

ETA- So long as you can leave the house without him fretting then having a dog that follows you round the house isn't a big deal. My first girl was minded by my grandparents when I went out so she was almost never left by herself until she was a year old- but this has not had any adverse affects.

When I am out I also prefer using a crate - I have one dog that will chew through the lead. When the dogs are in the car she will chew through hers and the other dogs leads. The first time this happened and I openned the boot I had dogs everywhere.

Baby gates are also very helpful. I am currently teaching my puppy to wait nicely while I leave her barricaded in an area/room. At first she would jump and cry - but she is getting better. However the baby gates are not that useful for dogs trained in agility - why do we teach our dogs to jump

Edited July 1, 2011 by buddy1

[kiesha09]

My dogs are aged 4 and 5 and they have never grown out of it They are very people focused little dogs and that is what I like about them. Although having said that I'm not overly impressed that my girl has learnt to open the toilet door... is nothing sacred anymore?

Having said that I knew that it was important I trained them at an early age to handle being on their own. So they're fine when I go to work, if they're crated or locked outside. But if they have their own way they will follow me wherever I am.

[Guest HarperGD]

Thanks for all the responses!

I guess all dogs have their own personalities!

Keisha - that's hilarious yours have learned how to open the toilet door. Hopefully mine won't learn that!! :p

Woofen - he doesn't fret when we leave. We have taped him. He cries (yodels??) for a while and then I guess he just goes to sleep. He's a damn good sleeper! We had a 10 hour drive in the car yesterday and he slept THE WHOLE TIME. I was so jealous. I had to stay awake to.. you know.. drive... (the joys of being a human )

Just to clarify - I don't hate that he follows me everywhere. It doesn't bother me at all and even if I lived in a house with a yard he would still be inside with me, at my feet.

In fact, I can see him getting more and more independent by the day. Ever since last week when we started taking him out for walks he has gotten so much more sociable. It's lovely.

He had his last puppy school session on Wed night and was a lot bolder than he had been before.

Actually, my partner and I drove up to my parent's property yesterday in the hinterland of Byron Bay and we're up here for 3 weeks, to spend time together before my partner goes overseas. It's the first time Harper has been able to run around (they have an acre) and oh my god does he LOVE IT!!!

He has been zooming around, rolling in the grass, jumping in the swimming pool (much to my horror - it took forever to brush him out after that!!) and just having the best time playing country dog.

We also went to play with our family friend's standard poodle and Harper loved him (standard was pretty indifferent to Harper though, but I hear that's good.)

He even wandered off exploring on his own (well he thought he was on his own, I was watching him the whole time!!)

I have started contemplating moving up here for 6 months while OH is away... I can work from home so it's super tempting ;) Me, Harper and a paradise property with lots of room to run and play. Sounds so romantic :p

I went to the dentist today and Harper stayed with my mum and OH. He was happy. He likes being with other people. He just PREFERS being with me... :D

Oh and poodlefan - don't worry there's NO sleeping on the bed. I'm lazy with washing sheets at the best of times, don't need a dog forcing me to have to wash them more often ;) Harper sleeps quietly in his crate at night, beside our bed. He's really good in his crate at bedtime.

And I'm not comfortable with the idea of ever leaving Harper outside a supermarket tied up, I was just using it as an example of dogs sitting happily, waiting for their owners anxiety-free.

Edited July 1, 2011 by HarperGD

[jacqui835]

My boy was like that as a puppy. Now he's an adult, and although we can now leave him home alone with no problems, he is still with me when he can be/preferably on me (which is cute when it's a toy poodle, but slightly awkward when it's a doberman...)

He is my dog, always has been and I imagine he always will be. Other people can ask him to do things, and if they have food, he might do it, but it's all so transactional. He looks to me and follows me without hesitation.

I love him to bits and have gone through a fair bit to keep him - including putting my arm between him and a bully breed who nearly took his eye out (probably stupid but I acted without thinking and fortunately all I have to show for it today are some torn clothes). I love our relationship and wouldn't give it up for anything.

But I would say one thing. Make sure you are the human, and he is the dog because it can be easy when you're so close to forget. I have my dog on the bed several times a week, but it's by invitation only. I make sure he has the best food and toys but I don't spoil him. If I give a command, I always follow through. We're bonded, and we're partners, but I am the leader - and dogs like it that way. Additionally, it means I can spend more time with him. People love well-behaved, polite dogs so you can take them more places.

Enjoy your puppy, there are many threads on these forums about people that struggle to bond with their dogs and we are so lucky not to fall into that category.

[lovemesideways]

I think its really dangerous to assume a dog will just "grow out of" any behaviour. They might, but many do not and you're much better prepared if you train them rather than relying on age to fix your problems. Ive been horrified a few times meeting Labradors that are 6 months + in ages, that will chew you quite hard.

"Oh he'll grow out of that" says the owner with scars all over their hands.

No, no they wont. Not while its so fun and rewarding. Not with a gundog that is bred to use its mouth.

I like that my dogs want to know what I'm doing and follow me around, but at times it also really annoys me when they do it (and it can often be dangerous! With Rover the sneak who likes to lay down behind you when you are not looking) So I have taught all my dogs to stay on a designated spot when told. Safer for me and them, and also better for my sanity!

[Muttaburra]

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