Purebred Promotion Group

[Agility Dogs]

pro-purebred dog people as a bunch of elitist snobs with our heads shoved firmly up our bottoms.

The sad thing is that some of 'us' are! Until we realise that and change attitude nothing will change - or perhaps the divide will widen.

[poodlefan]

I personally think the problem is that not all registered breeders are good breeders.

The not so good ones do produce unhealthy dogs.

This problem needs addressing before we can really go out and promote dogs from registered breeders.

Because at the moment you really can't say to someone "go to a registered breeder" without also saying "but it needs to be a registered breeder that health tests, is honest about any problems in their lines..." the list goes on.

Good breeders are worth there weight in gold and it's awful that they can have their reputation besmirched by the fact that there are registered breeders doing a very poor job, and producing unhealthy dogs

I agree that not all registered breeders are responsible breeders. Another issue for the purebred dog world is that not all purebred dog breeders are registered breeders. Some of the worst examples of purebred dogs don't have pedigree papers.

[toy dog]

pro-purebred dog people as a bunch of elitist snobs with our heads shoved firmly up our bottoms.

The sad thing is that some of 'us' are! Until we realise that and change attitude nothing will change - or perhaps the divide will widen.

well i got told by one woman after i told her no such thing as a "pomchi" to shove my dog (with my head) up my bottom so it not true that the public only think its our heads we have up our bottoms.

[mita]

There's nothing wrong with the word 'elite'. It simply means a group claiming some kind of superior status. The crunch is in what evidence there is for any individual making such a claim. Like, there's no problem referring to 'elite sports persons', because their performances bear that out. 'Elite' is mis-used when that status is claimed without evidence.

So it's the evidence which counts in looking for the best -of- the- best within dog breeding.

Promoting purebreds requires setting out the means by which risks can be reduced via the decisions breeders make about their breeding practice, and how their puppies are raised.

And indicating there may be a better chance of finding that in the registered system. Simply a better chance, not certainty.

Anything that depends on human decision-making & also has numbers of variables outside human power to influence, is fallible.

[Agility Dogs]

Another issue (self perpetuating??) is that breeding pedigree dogs is a past time and not an industry as such. While ever making money out of the hobby is considered by many to be dirty there is a vested interest from many for it to stay on the fringes of commerce. While ever it sits there it is unlikely to be taken seriously by the mainstream media or anyone outside the small circle involved.

I like the fact that it is not an industry - as soon as it becomes that the door opens for poor practice and corner cutting to replace true passion.

Another way to look at it - the way many onwers treat Grey Hounds is criticised as purely focussed on the $$$ involved and ignorant of the animals welfare. Dogs are doped to perform better, when they don't they are disposed of in the most efficient manner. Do we want this to become common practice across the entire dog world?

The other thing standing in the way of ever truly solving this problem is the fact that many people transfer their own feelings to animals. In this case I mean that the thought of humans 'breeding to better the breed' (not a bad idea in many cases, but that's another argument) is disgusting and akin to an early 20th Century mantra that came out of Germany. Many people feel the same way about dogs that are selectively bred. How do we counter this?

[dasha]

I think it is more important to educate people on the importance of training, socialising, having value of their pets, and basically what being a responsible OWNER entails irrespective of whether that pet comes with a pedigree or not.

As s flow on from that, people will then see how important it is to get a dog from someone who also values, trains and cares obout their breeding dogs rather than a industry that thinks about the dollars.

Edited July 1, 2011 by dasha

[Dory the Doted One]

I wasn't actually talking about pedigree dog owners pointing a finger. I don't have a pedigree dog, but neither is my cross breed broken enough to make a point about crossbreeds also having health issues. I just wondered if there were any cross breed owners who feel that the whole anti purebred dog slander is worth fighting for by actually standing up and levelling the field by bringing forth some of their cross breed experiences. It was a random thought.

I personally think that the way to handle all this anti-purebred propaganda is to promote healthy dogs in general. Be they cross breed or otherwise. Singling out one group over another is always going to create division. But that seems to be a sticking point for breeders, they don't want to be seen promoting anything but pedigreed dogs. The reality is, there are plenty of people who do like their Heinz Dogs. And telling them that their choice is not the 'proper' choice is only going to feel like a slap in the face.

And no. I'm not promoting cross breed dogs. No I'm not anti purebred dogs. I'm pro healthy, well adjusted, well cared for dogs owned by people who are aware of the responsiblity to said healthy dog. And educated in how to increase their chances of owning such a dog.

[toy dog]

But that seems to be a sticking point for breeders, they don't want to be seen promoting anything but pedigreed dogs. The reality is, there are plenty of people who do like their Heinz Dogs. And telling them that their choice is not the 'proper' choice is only going to feel like a slap in the face.

And no. I'm not promoting cross breed dogs. No I'm not anti purebred dogs. I'm pro healthy, well adjusted, well cared for dogs owned by people who are aware of the responsiblity to said healthy dog. And educated in how to increase their chances of owning such a dog.

I think you'll find that there are many breeders who rescue dogs and rehome. it doesn't matter where they come from. I know of just recently a whole breed club sticking together and going to a shelter and bailing out some pups and then finding suitable homes for them. Me, myself i have had crosses and pedigrees, at the moment i have a rescue dog thats not of the breed i have exhibited or bred.

ETA: on my website i promote shelter dogs and pedigrees equally - i use my dog to talk to the public (ride the metro trains at times where people mistake my dog for a guide dog because he is well behaved) and i've inspired in the past 4 people to go to shelters to get dogs because they've met my boy.

I am an animal lover first I love all dogs no matter the origin, crosses pedigrees purebreds. Im not suggesting myself, to say "them" and "us" i am suggesting we bring knowledge to the table about genetics in animals. To challenge the theory that they seem to be saying all the time about pedigrees being inbred when i know myself that is not the case. Our breed for instance has been in existence in Australia since 1953. So plenty of diversity still there to not inbreed.

Many breeders have imported stock over the years from UK, USA and other countries to make sure the gene pool stays varied. I know of breeders now contemplating importing and this will give us even greater diversity in bloodlines already there.

Edited July 1, 2011 by toy dog

[Dory the Doted One]

Then I've been going to the wrong breed club/state controlling body meetings. Because you would have been one of the minority at those meetings, Toydog.

I'm happy to stand corrected, but I would still like to see a bit more unity.

[klink]

Reading through the remarks re this topic is appears that most of us are firstly ,dog lovers' purebred or other and this is how it should be. Unfortunately we are our own worst enemies, starting with our respective organisations whose expertise in many aspects of our so called dog society,leave a lot to be desired with the administration of our fraternity, and generally seem only to be interested in self gratification and personal gain.

I have said in previous posts that until as breeders/ exhibitors we support each other for the interests of the dog scene overall instead of only our own interests we will be doomed in this current society.We have ,supposedley a national body to represent us, a body with absolutely no influence at all over anybody ,except their own members.

Why would we want to be controlled by a toothless tiger that continues to milk us all dry and give us very little support in the war against purebred dogs.

I have said before it is time for some type on national campaign to have our case taken seriously ,both by Govts and the ANKC.

[RallyValley]

Reading through the remarks re this topic is appears that most of us are firstly ,dog lovers' purebred or other and this is how it should be. Unfortunately we are our own worst enemies, starting with our respective organisations whose expertise in many aspects of our so called dog society,leave a lot to be desired with the administration of our fraternity, and generally seem only to be interested in self gratification and personal gain.

I have said in previous posts that until as breeders/ exhibitors we support each other for the interests of the dog scene overall instead of only our own interests we will be doomed in this current society.We have ,supposedley a national body to represent us, a body with absolutely no influence at all over anybody ,except their own members.

Why would we want to be controlled by a toothless tiger that continues to milk us all dry and give us very little support in the war against purebred dogs.

I have said before it is time for some type on national campaign to have our case taken seriously ,both by Govts and the ANKC.

It seems people would rather say 'that's too hard' and throw thier arms up I am a newbie to pedigree dogs but I would love to see people forming ideas, writing proposals to thier state bodies or whatever needs to be done. However I am also young and naieve in my optimism sometimes.

[toy dog]

Then I've been going to the wrong breed club/state controlling body meetings. Because you would have been one of the minority at those meetings, Toydog.

I'm happy to stand corrected, but I would still like to see a bit more unity.

perhaps it varies from state to state? but no, i am not in the minority over here, i've been a member of our controlling state body for over 25 years and belonged to a few all breeds KC, as well as breed clubs. So no definately not in the minority i can assure you of that. ;)

[toy dog]

Reading through the remarks re this topic is appears that most of us are firstly ,dog lovers' purebred or other and this is how it should be. Unfortunately we are our own worst enemies, starting with our respective organisations whose expertise in many aspects of our so called dog society,leave a lot to be desired with the administration of our fraternity, and generally seem only to be interested in self gratification and personal gain.

I have said in previous posts that until as breeders/ exhibitors we support each other for the interests of the dog scene overall instead of only our own interests we will be doomed in this current society.We have ,supposedley a national body to represent us, a body with absolutely no influence at all over anybody ,except their own members.

Why would we want to be controlled by a toothless tiger that continues to milk us all dry and give us very little support in the war against purebred dogs.

I have said before it is time for some type on national campaign to have our case taken seriously ,both by Govts and the ANKC.

It seems people would rather say 'that's too hard' and throw thier arms up I am a newbie to pedigree dogs but I would love to see people forming ideas, writing proposals to thier state bodies or whatever needs to be done. However I am also young and naieve in my optimism sometimes.

went to a meeting with other dogsvic members a few months ago to try to come up with ideas how to tackle puppy farmers within our organisation. They set up a committee. So far i have not heard what this committee is doing??? anyone know????

It was stated that VCA/dogsvic is one of 5 key organisations that advise the govt on dog related issues. President said that govt are now listening, the members wanted VCA to have a bigger role as before they said, govt were by passing them.

[Greytmate]

I personally think the problem is that not all registered breeders are good breeders.

The not so good ones do produce unhealthy dogs.

This problem needs addressing before we can really go out and promote dogs from registered breeders.

Because at the moment you really can't say to someone "go to a registered breeder" without also saying "but it needs to be a registered breeder that health tests, is honest about any problems in their lines..." the list goes on.

Good breeders are worth there weight in gold and it's awful that they can have their reputation besmirched by the fact that there are registered breeders doing a very poor job, and producing unhealthy dogs

Yes.

To promote something, you need to be able to point out the features and benefits, and dispell any doubts. Some purebreeds, some purebred lines, and some dogs fail to live up to a crietria I would have for 'family pet'. So I don't think it's ethical to promote them as such.

There are some purebreed lines that are the best dogs ever, why should every purebreed dog, even the badly bred ones, get promoted alongside them? They are not a similar thing of a similar quality.

I like the fact that it is not an industry - as soon as it becomes that the door opens for poor practice and corner cutting to replace true passion.

Another way to look at it - the way many onwers treat Grey Hounds is criticised as purely focussed on the $$ involved and ignorant of the animals welfare. Dogs are doped to perform better, when they don't they are disposed of in the most efficient manner. Do we want this to become common practice across the entire dog world?

This is common practice in any breed with a commercial value. Except that you are wrong about ignorance of welfare. Most greyhounds get much better nutrition and exercise than pet dogs do, and greyhound breeders are producing sound animals of high quality. The breed is very healthy. Contrast that to the sad lives of the badly conformed matting SWFs crammed into wire cages at puppy farms and thei pups in glass cages in shops.

[RuralPug]

I think it is more important to educate people on the importance of training, socialising, having value of their pets, and basically what being a responsible OWNER entails irrespective of whether that pet comes with a pedigree or not.

As s flow on from that, people will then see how important it is to get a dog from someone who also values, trains and cares about their breeding dogs rather than a industry that thinks about the dollars.

X 2. I really think that if you push this line, and that of health testing to ensure suitability for breeding, then eventually the public will know that going to an ethical breeder (ANKC or performance) is the best way to aquire their companion.

Plus we need to find a way to make it known who bred that problem dog down the street - so that particular breeder will either not breed again or will be a hell of a lot more careful in choosing their puppy buyers and supporting them with advice for the lifetime of the dog. Something like having the breeder details on the chip for life and a warning notice or something issued to the breeder everytime a dog is surrendered, inpounded or has a genuine nuisance claim investigated and upheld on it. Copy of notice to the local council of the breeder - more than x number of notices in a year, investigate and if necessary revoke their kennel licence. They will be a damn sight more careful about supporting their puppy buyers with training advice and taking care to breed healthy dogs (that are not surrendered due to costs of health treatments) and assisting in rehoming others etc.

It would mean breeders become damn fussy about only selling to reponsible pet owners - puppy farmers and bybs would suffer most. Sorry, slight OT.

Edited July 2, 2011 by RuralPug

[espinay2]

pro-purebred dog people as a bunch of elitist snobs with our heads shoved firmly up our bottoms.

The sad thing is that some of 'us' are! Until we realise that and change attitude nothing will change - or perhaps the divide will widen.

well i got told by one woman after i told her no such thing as a "pomchi" to shove my dog (with my head) up my bottom so it not true that the public only think its our heads we have up our bottoms.

I heard a similar story from someone recently who was encouraged to go to a dog show to talk to breeders when looking for a dog. Excitedly she did this. Chatting to a breeder of a breed she was interested in she mentioned in conversation that her sister had a 'maltishit' or some such cross. Reaction was apparently swift and denigrating from the breeder. that person walked out of that dog show without talking to another person. she was mortified and vowed that if that was the attitude she would not be looking at a purebred dog.

Breeders and purebred dog owners need to realise that many people have crossbred pets they love and adore. While we certainly may hold views on that, leaping to immediately denigrate something they love (which is the way it is often viewed) does not favours to the purebred dog community. The person I mention above could have made a good addition to the purebred dog pet owner world. They could have been responsible for others doing the same (including her sister for future dogs). Instead they are gone and will never come back. Short term 'corrections' sometimes serve no purpose other than turning them off where letting it slide and working on positive education (that takes more than a sentence and starts with a conversation) can in many cases have a bigger effect in the long term.

Now I will admit to being a bit quick off the mark with the throw away lines and corrections myself at times. But lately taking note of the effect that this can have on some otherwise would be purebred dog owners, I know for my own part I will be doing my best to suck it in and do more positive talking. Every single one of us is a walking PR machine. How we conduct ourselves has an impact. I recommend we all take note of what we say and how we go about promoting purebred dogs as it all adds up in the bigger campaign. And frankly I think to a large extent we have been for a while our own worst enemy.

[toy dog]

Chatting to a breeder of a breed she was interested in she mentioned in conversation that her sister had a 'maltishit' or some such cross.

I can imagine what the returning comment would have been there some people take offense when you tell the truth and offer assistance(i tend to be a bit like that) and see it as putting them down somehow as the lady i was emailing must of. Most people that i deal with take what im trying to help them with and don't get offended.

you're damned if you do say something you're damned if you don't, if you don't say anything at all, then you are a snob if you do try to assist you are a rude know-it-all.

most breeders get these types of emails and just ignore not worth the stress, i try to assist but i say my piece politely mind you i am not ever rude then block them out as i know some people these days don't take too kindly to being told what is the truth. just my nature i suppose. but i get where you are coming from and it makes sense. alot of sense.

[mita]

To promote something, you need to be able to point out the features and benefits, and dispell any doubts. Some purebreeds, some purebred lines, and some dogs fail to live up to a crietria I would have for 'family pet'. So I don't think it's ethical to promote them as such.

There are some purebreed lines that are the best dogs ever, why should every purebreed dog, even the badly bred ones, get promoted alongside them? They are not a similar thing of a similar quality.

It's the criteria for breeding/raising purebred dogs which are likely to reduce risk, that should be promoted.

It's already done informally. Like recently, someone I know asked me for help in adopting an adult dog of my breed of interest... specifically to be a family pet.

For my enquiries, I went straight to the registered breeders who operate according to that critieria....& who would also sound out colleagues as they attended upcoming shows.

First criterion was equal consideration for health in breeding decisions. along with interest in widening the gene pool. Second criterion was equal consideration for socialisation via treating their dogs (& puppies) as companion pets, not largely kenneled 'stock'.

Third criterion was deep interest & appreciation of this breed, its unique conformation & its history. And maintaining international links.

Fourth, willingness to provide information about an individual dog's temperament & behaviours. And discuss suitability for the lifestyle being offered by the prospective adopter. Then, support & advice for the settling-in period....& later.

And, so on.

Yes, suitable dog was found. New owner screened & approved as breeders who follow the above criteria don't home their dogs lightly.

Has nothing to do with snobbery, but everything to do with setting out criteria for getting a purebred dog....& following them.

Has nothing to do with making some kind of unfair comparisons with mixed-breed dogs. Our last little mixed-breed dog was rescued after being thrown from a car as a puppy. She lived until nearly 22 years of age.

Edited July 2, 2011 by mita

[Marion 01]

Talking to someone at a dog show is a good idea, but depends on the person you are going to talk to. Most people who are at dog shows are showing dogs, and we know just how frazzled nerves become, and most people are running on adrenalin. Need a situation where it is a more relaxed atmosphere, with plenty of time to talk to anyone wanting to know about a particular breed or we need to have a website or available media with the names of trusted people, their Kennel names etc, breeds of dogs and what the hereditary problems are in their breeds and the fact that they are DNA testing (if it is available in that breed) or what testing they are doing to help eradicate these problems. The Pros and Cons of owning a particular breed, the suitability of that breed for the family etc etc. The general public need to know where to access all this information in the first place. People who are not in the dog world would not have a clue where to find a particular breed, most people phone their vets to see if they know of a breeder of a certain dog. I don't know that any governing dog bodies would do any more than they are doing right now, and that is absolutely nothing. I would love to see the pedigree dog given the good rap it deserves

[toy dog]

Talking to someone at a dog show is a good idea, but depends on the person you are going to talk to. Most people who are at dog shows are showing dogs, and we know just how frazzled nerves become, and most people are running on adrenalin. Need a situation where it is a more relaxed atmosphere, with plenty of time to talk to anyone wanting to know about a particular breed or we need to have a website or available media with the names of trusted people, their Kennel names etc, breeds of dogs and what the hereditary problems are in their breeds and the fact that they are DNA testing (if it is available in that breed) or what testing they are doing to help eradicate these problems. The Pros and Cons of owning a particular breed, the suitability of that breed for the family etc etc. The general public need to know where to access all this information in the first place. People who are not in the dog world would not have a clue where to find a particular breed, most people phone their vets to see if they know of a breeder of a certain dog. I don't know that any governing dog bodies would do any more than they are doing right now, and that is absolutely nothing. I would love to see the pedigree dog given the good rap it deserves

our breed has breed competitions, sort of like a mock dog show we have a BBQ or share a buffet where everyone brings food and shares it even with people who come along who like the breed. very relaxed atmosphere and gets brownie points for pedigree dogs. we've picked up many new members doing these days. i don't know if other breed clubs do the same but this is our club.

DogsVic/VCA also have every year 2 open shows (not champ which is more intense people trying to get points with their dogs) at Caulfield racecourse and it is designed to showcase our dogs. So breeders sit there with their dogs and people scores of them come up and ask questions and we answer them and give out leaflets. Very enjoyable day last time, it was sunny and i got to talk to some people about puppy farms and pedigree dogs how good they are. good day out promoting pedigees.

DogsVIC also have a day set up once a year to have a mock dog show, breeders enter their dogs its usually right in the middle of the city in Melbourne and they usually have a huge audience, they have someone with a speaker describing how the dog show is set up and what the judge looks for etc. etc. good PR for pedigree dogs and DOGSVIC should be congratulated on this initiative.