charley101 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 I actually totally agree with you about head collars thats why i have never used one before. I think the dog should have freedom to see whats going on so it has a chance to look and decide not to react rather than having its head pulled round. I have found it very interesting what you have said about putting one on a reactive dog i hadnt thought of it from that point of view. The dog (he is actually not my own dog) is currently in a sense-ible harness which i love but it was suggested we try a head collar i will bring it up with the person who suggested it next time i see them. As for not using Mark Singer - sorry i made it sound personal i dont know him at all. I use reward based training and dont like choke chains, e-collars or prong collars - please dont rant at me about the pros and cons of this you will not change my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) As for not using Mark Singer - sorry i made it sound personal i dont know him at all. I use reward based training and dont like choke chains, e-collars or prong collars - please dont rant at me about the pros and cons of this you will not change my mind. Your prerogative. However you've assumed that because this trainer may use such methods, he is going to on your dog. That may not be the case. I don't even recall reading that he did use e-collars or prong collars? Personally, with a reactive dog you need to use what works. A trainer with a track record of success with such dogs is someone I'd be talking to BEFORE I jumped to any conclusions about him. In the meantime, muzzle your dog when its outside your yard. If the strongest control you're prepared to use is a harness and you're not willing do use anything other than reward based training, you're going to have issues with control if you get involved in an incident. You have no control of the dog's head for a start. Edited June 28, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 but it was suggested we try a head collar i will bring it up with the person who suggested it next time i see them. If the vet behaviourist has recommended a head collar as part of a program that requires one (there are clinically tested, published, peer-reviewed programs for reactive dogs that use head collars) then get whatever they recommend. If it is just a suggestion from someone else, then there really isn't any need unless the owner is seriously over-powered by the dog. The arguments against head collars are a lot like the arguments against prong collars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsdogs Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Here's a good video with Jean Donaldson fitting a gentle leader. I prefer a black dog head collar. If you don't want the dog to try & shake off the head collar & jar it's neck you can use a double ended lead. You do need to be co-ordinated though to manage them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I use reward based training and dont like choke chains, e-collars or prong collars But you will use a head collar? What's the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsdogs Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 This time Jean Donaldson using the gentle leader with a reactive dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 maybe you're just making gross assumptions about Mark ... why not have the opinion of someone experienced in such situations if it can possibly help? Dont let your ideals constrain the dogs potential ability to rehabilitate. Considering the dog is having to be medicated and there is no corrective implementation involved ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) Thanks for your replies the dog has already been assessed by a behaviourist vet and has started anxiety meds and a training programme. The head collar is really just as a precaution rather than a fixer. The dog will not be introduced to other dogs until we feel it can cope with them and then only from a distance but i want to get him used to a head collar sooner rather than later just incase i need one. I havent used one before so wondered what everyone thought. Why would you say the sporn is better than the others ? says there that the dog is being re-trained Nekhbet. Oh hang on I misunderstood what you meant. Edited June 28, 2011 by raineth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 still I don't really understand this thread. On DOL I'm always hearing people being advised to go to a trainer or behaviourist; and that you can't assess over the internet. The OP is seeing a behaviourist. Surely the behaviourist who will actually be seeing the dog would be the best to advise on the tools to be used and the training needed it seems to me like the whole of dogdom could be divided into the anti-head collar faction and the pro-head collar faction. When its just a tool like the others that can be used well or poorly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I tried a couple of head halters on my girl, we don't really use them though as we no longer need that sort of tool and I've done a lot of work on using her flat collar (I re-prioritised!!). So some of our other training slowed but her work on her flat collar has come a long way! Anyway, OT!! She hated the genrle leader with a passion and we could not walk with it on. however, she was much more receptive to the Halti. I think because it sits more loosely, if they do pull forward it tightens around the muzzle. I think she just found the gentle leader more constrictive. But I think you have to try a few to see what works best for you. I've also heard many positive reports about the sporn and the black dog infin8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemesideways Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 If you do go with a halti of any sort please make sure you have a well fitted collar or harness also and connect your leash to BOTH. Ive seen SO many dogs get out of haltis in seemingly impossible ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 The OP is seeing a behaviourist. Surely the behaviourist who will actually be seeing the dog would be the best to advise on the tools to be used and the training needed Thats what I dont understand. With a problem that is so severe it requires medication why is the OP on here asking about what equipment would be best for a reactive GSD. This is why they need someone with hands on experience in these matters to see the dog and make an educated decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 The OP is seeing a behaviourist. Surely the behaviourist who will actually be seeing the dog would be the best to advise on the tools to be used and the training needed Thats what I dont understand. With a problem that is so severe it requires medication why is the OP on here asking about what equipment would be best for a reactive GSD. I get the impression that a third party has made the suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetSitters Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I actually totally agree with you about head collars thats why i have never used one before. I think the dog should have freedom to see whats going on so it has a chance to look and decide not to react rather than having its head pulled round. I have found it very interesting what you have said about putting one on a reactive dog i hadnt thought of it from that point of view. The dog (he is actually not my own dog) is currently in a sense-ible harness which i love but it was suggested we try a head collar i will bring it up with the person who suggested it next time i see them. As for not using Mark Singer - sorry i made it sound personal i dont know him at all. I use reward based training and dont like choke chains, e-collars or prong collars - please dont rant at me about the pros and cons of this you will not change my mind. So the dog's now drugged contemplating a head collar to satisfy your liking of reward based training, is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charley101 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Enough Enough Its amazing what a reaction i got just for just adding its for a reactive dog please put your opinions on that bit a side for a sec this dog will not be harmed in anyway and will not be put in a position it can be harmed. I only wanted some opinions about head collars. It sounds like not many people like them - does anybody have any good reviews on them ? and in what situation would you use one ? obviously not for a reactive dog lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Charley, I personally don't have a problem with them. They are just a tool - they are not inherently bad like any tool (prong collars, check chain, etc) they can be used badly or used well. I have seen dogs who have had "problems" be rehabilitated and they have worn head collars during this process. One was a reactive GSD and she is now competing really well at agility. She has made the most incredible turn around and I would say she is now one of the steadiest, and most reliable dogs at club and now wears a simple flat collar. I think you can have success with a variety of tools. And in a way the tool is the least important thing. I think the actual training that goes on is more important. I also don't see an issue with medication. I would if medication was the only thing being used. But medication along with rehabilitation can be a very good way to go in my opinion. I used tryptophan along with training to help my fearful boy with a couple of his big fears and it worked wonders - the medication gave us that little extra advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Enough Enough Its amazing what a reaction i got just for just adding its for a reactive dog please put your opinions on that bit a side for a sec this dog will not be harmed in anyway and will not be put in a position it can be harmed. I only wanted some opinions about head collars. It sounds like not many people like them - does anybody have any good reviews on them ? and in what situation would you use one ? obviously not for a reactive dog lol Personally I was more concerned about the harm the dog might cause to others! I'd think a halti on a big powerful dog with an owner who was physically challenged to manage it. I'd never use or recommend one on any dog under knee height.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I usually recommend them to small ladies with big, strong dogs. Mainly for the safety of the handler. Most manage to get the loose lead walking happening but a couple I have been worried about. ie a Newfie with a 5 foot lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 yeah you do really need to make sure there is a back-up plan for the headcollar. some head collars have an attachment to connect the head collar to a flat collar but they are very flimsy so I wouldn't rely on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 yeah you do really need to make sure there is a back-up plan for the headcollar. some head collars have an attachment to connect the head collar to a flat collar but they are very flimsy so I wouldn't rely on that. I walk all three of my dogs in the black dog infin8 head collars (mainly because I'm too lazy to 100% proof 3 dogs loose lead walking.) They don't give you the level of 'control' that a traditional halti does, but neither can the dogs get out of them as they are essentially a martingdale with a nose strap. For me it serves to give them a gentle reminder that they shouldn't be straining at the end of the lead. (Yes, a mild aversive.) Tick for head collar here, but as others have said you need to a. make sure you use them with people who can teach you to train your dog properly and b. make sure that you have a back up plan if your dog happens to 'escape' the collar. Like anything they can be used poorly or used well, its just a matter of matching the dog, the handler and the activity with the tools that are being used. Then making sure that the dog is not put in situations that it, the handler and the tool won't allow success in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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