Are Our Dogs Still Able To Talk Speak Thier Language?

[miss whippy]

Does anyone else feel that there are an unfortunate number of dogs around that are, by bad breeding, or bad/missing teaching unable to communicate with each other properly?

I find some dogs able to play and interact with each other on all levels of hierarchy, including in sizable groups where the dogs have not met before, without the fear of dogfights erupting. However others do not seem to be able or willing to read the signs, either ignoring obvious displays of submission or running into the face of a dog that clearly presents as unfriendly.

Is it our fault for not allowing our dogs to properly interact and sort it out with each other, teaching them that our command is all that counts? Is it because our dogs are often taken from their litter-mates at an early age, before they learn how to speak their own language? Are they picking up on our own fears and reacting accordingly?

Do you think dogs should be able to play together without fear of someone ending up in a bloody mess? Is this an untenable idea?

Would love to hear what you think.

[Bisart Dobes]

I think we interfere so much with their normal interactions that they lose the ability. It takes concerted effort to socialise & raise a puppy according to its needs not ours.

We have people who have one of our puppies whose temperament is fantastic - they were told to take him out of the puppy socialisation class / session because he is too big (& a dobermann ). They live in country Vic so not much choice of obedience school. Today we met up and he had a great time running & playing with our dogs but also our 11 week old Brittany baby . . . he was fantastic with her, gentle, careful and couldn't have been better behaved (AND they were all offlead !). A total shame that he was denied the puppy class socialisation by the club but luckily his temperament is so lovely it won't affect him too much. It wouldn't be the same for all dogs who are denied this vital opportunity though and alot of people would simply give up going to obedience if treated like that and then the dog loses out altogether.

[miss whippy]

I think we interfere so much with their normal interactions that they lose the ability. It takes concerted effort to socialise & raise a puppy according to its needs not ours.

We have people who have one of our puppies whose temperament is fantastic - they were told to take him out of the puppy socialisation class / session because he is too big (& a dobermann ). They live in country Vic so not much choice of obedience school. Today we met up and he had a great time running & playing with our dogs but also our 11 week old Brittany baby . . . he was fantastic with her, gentle, careful and couldn't have been better behaved (AND they were all offlead !). A total shame that he was denied the puppy class socialisation by the club but luckily his temperament is so lovely it won't affect him too much. It wouldn't be the same for all dogs who are denied this vital opportunity though and alot of people would simply give up going to obedience if treated like that and then the dog loses out altogether.

I think generally we interfere too much too.

Isn't that crazy?! What a shame the obedience school was so shortsighted and 'breedist' in their approach. Thank goodness his natural good temperament shines through, and probably his owners still trying to do the right thing without the benefit of the class.

[CrazyCresties]

Totally! My two are pretty screwed up, both rescues, one kept caged for the first few years of his life and the other never walked or socialised I was just talking to my OH this evening about even though I love them to death, sometimes I dread taking them out for walks as they just don't cope with other dogs within sight! One is doing well in a 'reactive rover' class and progressing, but I think it's just a case of learning how to manage their behaviour and not 'fixing' it.

Even if a dog play bows, they just don't 'get' play and seem to really struggle with doggy language

My 'normal' dog was my cocker I had from a pup and he just had the best temperament with people and dogs and was so well socialised by both his breeder and myself.......it's a shame as it makes me question getting a rescue again, or if I do make sure it is one with no fear or dog aggression.

[miss whippy]

Totally! My two are pretty screwed up, both rescues, one kept caged for the first few years of his life and the other never walked or socialised I was just talking to my OH this evening about even though I love them to death, sometimes I dread taking them out for walks as they just don't cope with other dogs within sight! One is doing well in a 'reactive rover' class and progressing, but I think it's just a case of learning how to manage their behaviour and not 'fixing' it.

Even if a dog play bows, they just don't 'get' play and seem to really struggle with doggy language

My 'normal' dog was my cocker I had from a pup and he just had the best temperament with people and dogs and was so well socialised by both his breeder and myself.......it's a shame as it makes me question getting a rescue again, or if I do make sure it is one with no fear or dog aggression.

I applaud you for persevering with your little neglected souls. I'm sure they thank you for rescuing them and giving them a second chance at a normal life. It's a shame they miss out on play because they don't speak doggy but I'm glad to hear of the 'reactive rover' class. I hope it helps, even if just a little bit. I don't think a lot of people understand the importance of socialisation. It is a shame that you question getting a rescue again, as it sounds like you have the understanding and dedication needed to take on these kinds of dogs.

[Guest Ams]

I absolutely agree. I get a lot of pei into rescue that speak "pei" but not "dog" ie they can fit perfectly well into a pack of pei but can't be trusted in an off leash park where dogs of other breeds are. I currenly have a female pei who doesn't understand that growling is for angry not for happy.

[Kirislin]

Yes I do agree, what a good question. Not sure why, perhaps in some cases taken from their mother and siblings too soon. I know some idiot owners encourage aggressive behaviour, probably lots of other reasons.

I see with my own pack clear body language that avoids and sometimes invites confrontation, it's interesting to watch. Kibah often turns her head to look away from Penny, they have a history, Penny on the other hand often glares at Kibah just daring her to have a go.

I dont dare let them sort it out in a fight though because I feel sure I'd be burying at least one dog.

[m-j]

I believe sometimes we do interfere too much, but how much risk do you want to take

I also wonder too if dogs understand some signals better than others (a bit like people speaking english with different accents, understanding most words but not all)

A few years ago I had a dog come to me that was very reactive, he used a shake off alot. When it came to the stage of his training where I thought he was ready to meet multiple dogs off lead he was very tense even though the seven dogs were friendly and he had seen them all before. He at one point was interacting with my GSD and he was tense even though my dog was giving calming signals but not a shake off. I had put several calming signals on cue with her so I asked her to give a shake off, the change in the reactive dog was instant it was like he went "oh I get it you want to be friends" he had a ball after that and while he didn't play he certainly joined in with the rest of the group activities (all sniffing the same interesting smell for example) instead of being a loner, it was lovely to see.

[persephone]

Yes.

I believe it is a combination of many things - included the restrictions on dogs' freedom to be with other dogs ....often single dogs rarely get a chance to spend any decent amount of time with other dogs ..being dogs. Most activities are designed by humans. Obedience/sports/shows ... and interactions are supervised/guided.

[MalteseLuna]

I think that some breeds and dogs have different ways of communicating or playing and sometimes dogs of other breeds don't appreciate/understand the different "languages".

Often dogs which haven't been socialized properly are very poor at communicating as well.

[B-Q]

Yes, I think we can mess it up.

Buster is a social wreck, he had several bad experienxes when he was young and as such he's now very DA. (Much more controlled now then when younger though)

Mac also had poor socialistion and was likely taken from the litter WAYY too young (we think she was about 5 weeks when we got her) and she just doesn't understand other dogs body language. She doesn't know how to play and she can be a bit DR.

Quinn, although shy in temperament has had a lot of socialisation and I think she reads dogs quiet well AND displays body language quiet well. I feel easiest with her around other dogs because I know she clearly shows submissiveness and gives the dog room to either elicit play or tell her to back off, which so much as a hard look she's just leaves them alone.