Heidii Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I know that aussies can be born with natural bob tails but that about breeds like Dobies and Rotties? I have seen people advertising puppies born with natural bob tails but i didnt think these breeds could be born like that? Can they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaves Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) Allerhochst Rottweilers Here is some info Edited June 24, 2011 by Flaves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidii Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 what about Dobes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigirl Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) Didnt breeds like boxers etc get the bob tail gene by outcrossing with corgis? "Natural" bob tails just means the dogs were born that way and not docked. Doesnt mean its natural in the breed, it may have been deliberatly bred in. Edited June 24, 2011 by indigirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaves Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Boxers and Corgis were bred together to get the gene Dobes i am not sure of, i would think so same as the rotts. Not sure how common it would be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidii Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Didnt breeds like boxers etc get the bob tail gene by outcrossing with corgis? "Natural" bob tails just means the dogs were born that way and not docked. Doesnt mean its natural in the breed, it may have been deliberatly bred in. yes but it doesn't happen overnight....im just wondering if it is a loop hole to docking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigirl Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 No its a special breeding program with special permission by the powers that be, the resulting dogs cany be shown until they are 5 generations from the original outcross or something. Its a very deliberate and longg process, and its not undertaken lightly. The issue though is whether a boxer that has a corgi in its pedigree 5 generations ago is really still a purebred boxer. I do not breed boxers so I dont really have an opinion, but although i much prefer the look of a boxer with a docked tail, if I wanted a boxer I would want a boxer that only had purebred boxers behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Many european lines carry the bobtail gene infact i may not be common for Aussie breeding but with the increase in euro lines to Oz ithas incraesed it. A Rotti breeder here has had a good outcome of natural bobs for well over 25 years I also no of cases in Springers.american cockers & a number of other breeds It is also easy to tell by looking at the end of tail & all bobtails have to be documented at the veta & hold certificates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisart Dobes Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 It is there in the dobe gene pool but it is a recessive gene and extremely rare. If people in our breed would work together we could combine the existing dogs in Australia carrying this gene and perhaps the gene would become more common - though it is still a recessive gene. There was an application to the NSW Canine made to use dobes & another breed to develop a new bob tailed dobe but it was rejected at ANKC level because of WA's vote against. I think it was the corgi or boxer they were looking at. Would have been far better to look at the Rottweiler imho. There are some thoughts that the bob tail gene carries deformaties, I have seen one case of this myself - poor dog should have been pts at birth - he couldn't eat any solid food, couldn't digest properly, couldn't defecate without help etc etc. Yet this dog was used at stud numerous times because he was a natural bob tail. He had no tail, no anus & was missing part of his bowel - not what I would call a bob tail - but the gene was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerzeit Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Allerhochst Rottweilers Here is some info Just as a note to this - our experience with bobtails happened in the early 1970's - and the information that we've out on this page is a bit of historical information only and doesn't reflect our current breeding. We get a lot of enquiries for bobtailed pups because people see this page on our site and assume that means that we breed bobtails, so just wanted to clarify that before we get another round of emails looking for bobtailed puppies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaves Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Allerhochst Rottweilers Here is some info Just as a note to this - our experience with bobtails happened in the early 1970's - and the information that we've out on this page is a bit of historical information only and doesn't reflect our current breeding. We get a lot of enquiries for bobtailed pups because people see this page on our site and assume that means that we breed bobtails, so just wanted to clarify that before we get another round of emails looking for bobtailed puppies! Sorry Allerzeit - i put the link because of the info not thinking about the enquiries you would get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerzeit Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Nah, it's fine - it's interesting historical information on the breed (well, we think it is, anyway ) - I just wanted add a clarification in case anyone (not necessarily DOL members - but moreso general public who find this thread through Google searches, etc) see the link and jump to the conclusion that we breed bobtails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakbelgian Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Schipperkes are another breed that can have the natural bobtail gene. It's not in ALL blood lines so some people deny that it exists. I have seen a bitch with a stump of a tail with a tuft of hair on the end, bitch was well constructed for the show ring except the tail/stump puts you off. I have also seen pups born with no tail what so ever too just as if it was docked. Breeders of Schipps (in OZ) that I know of would NOT dare dock tails. I am not sure if there is a gene test to see if particular dogs have the gene. It is thought that if you mate a natural bob tail to a natural bob tail that you could get spine problems. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsrawesome Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 What about mini foxies ive seen a few advertised "natural bobtail"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Last year 2 puppies in a litter in Italy were born with only 2-3 caudal vertebrae. They were sold for a mint. Way back in the dobermann history they used to cull dobermanns born with bobtails. Why I dont know but it was considered ok back then to dock. Now that the docking ban is spanning across europe into the eastern block as well these bobtails are being sought after. Wonder if they will start breeding for dobies with ears that dont flop as much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Allerhochst Rottweilers Here is some info All about our very own Allerzeit. :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerzeit Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Allerhochst Rottweilers Here is some info All about our very own Allerzeit. :laugh: :laugh: Well, not really - I was only 4 or 5 years old back then, so it's not really my personal experience, it's my parent's experience - although I do remember playing with some of those dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarracully Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Schipperkes are another breed that can have the natural bobtail gene. It's not in ALL blood lines so some people deny that it exists. I have seen a bitch with a stump of a tail with a tuft of hair on the end, bitch was well constructed for the show ring except the tail/stump puts you off. I have also seen pups born with no tail what so ever too just as if it was docked. Breeders of Schipps (in OZ) that I know of would NOT dare dock tails. I am not sure if there is a gene test to see if particular dogs have the gene. It is thought that if you mate a natural bob tail to a natural bob tail that you could get spine problems. BB BB there is a genetic test that can determine the NBT gene. We have used it on a few of our Tenterfield terriers to show a dog has not been docked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Schipperkes are another breed that can have the natural bobtail gene. It's not in ALL blood lines so some people deny that it exists. I have seen a bitch with a stump of a tail with a tuft of hair on the end, bitch was well constructed for the show ring except the tail/stump puts you off. I have also seen pups born with no tail what so ever too just as if it was docked. Breeders of Schipps (in OZ) that I know of would NOT dare dock tails. I am not sure if there is a gene test to see if particular dogs have the gene. It is thought that if you mate a natural bob tail to a natural bob tail that you could get spine problems. BB BB there is a genetic test that can determine the NBT gene. We have used it on a few of our Tenterfield terriers to show a dog has not been docked. I believe there is a DNA marker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordogs Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) I have a natural born Bobtail GSD puppy born 3 weeks ago. Wonder where he fits in the scheme of things??? Perhaps I can sell him as an exotic breed and make a fortune :cooldance: Edited June 26, 2011 by Fordogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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