Any Tips For Training Babies?

[cassie]

My new Bernese baby Moose and I are venturing into the world of showing in a few short weeks! 10th July is our debut. Just wondering if anyone would be kind enough to share any of their training tips for babies.

How do I get him used to someone looking at his teeth? Every time I try to practice this with him he prefers to chew on my fingers. Also he has an awesome free stack, I see him just standing in perfect position quite often when he is simply watching the world go past. But when we try to practice he turns into a wiggly worm! I am using bait and he tends to move his feet to get closer to the bait even though I shove it right in his gob.

We will definitely be attending show training classes, but he's not old enough to go yet, and the way the dates fall we will only be able to attend one lesson (Thurs night) before his first show on the Sunday. So I was just hoping for a few pointers of things we could practice in the mean time!

Also trust me, I know he's a baby and not to expect too much, and babies are allowed to be a bit naughty etc etc, but thought I'd start the thread anyway. Many thanks in advance.

[RallyValley]

I have this (as an ebook) and will be using her method when my new pup arrives. It's pretty common sense and is specially made for pups in the way they build things up slowly:

http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DSH166EBK

With my last pup I clicker trained people looking at his teeth, holding the chin - click and treat then progressing to touching the lip, lifting the lip ect always clicking when he was calm and not squirmy/bitey. Once he was letting me look at teeth I started saying the word teeth when I did it, then started the whole process again with other people doing it until they built up to teeth.

Edited June 23, 2011 by RallyValley

[Dogsfevr]

all my large breeds pups are trained on a table

Stacking,mouth etc etc

They spend alot of time on the table anyway when being groomed so its natural & even when the breeders assess the pups they are stacked on a table from 6 weeks.

Don;t get caught bribing with food all the time,foster the free stack BUT teach dog to hand stack as well.

I see too many who don;t teach both & pay for it latter on.

Mouthing is easy just stop any old time say mouth look .good dog this doesn;t have to be part of show training at all i just do it randomly

[Paptacular!]

Don't train for too long at a time is my best advice. That way they won't get too bored of it.

Short spurts a couple of times a day, of a few minutes at a time.

[cassie]

I have this (as an ebook) and will be using her method when my new pup arrives. It's pretty common sense and is specially made for pups in the way they build things up slowly:

http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DSH166EBK

With my last pup I clicker trained people looking at his teeth, holding the chin - click and treat then progressing to touching the lip, lifting the lip ect always clicking when he was calm and not squirmy/bitey. Once he was letting me look at teeth I started saying the word teeth when I did it, then started the whole process again with other people doing it until they built up to teeth.

Thankyou that ebook looks good. I've never done clicker training but I like the idea of starting by touching his lips and progressing slowly. Call me silly but I didn't even think of that, and have been jumping straight into lifting his lip. Poor bugger has no idea what is expected! Thankyou

all my large breeds pups are trained on a table

Stacking,mouth etc etc

They spend alot of time on the table anyway when being groomed so its natural & even when the breeders assess the pups they are stacked on a table from 6 weeks.

Don;t get caught bribing with food all the time,foster the free stack BUT teach dog to hand stack as well.

I see too many who don;t teach both & pay for it latter on.

Mouthing is easy just stop any old time say mouth look .good dog this doesn;t have to be part of show training at all i just do it randomly

Thanks so much for the table tip I tried this today and he was 100% better up there. I will focus on that for a little while before I train him on the ground again. How do you "foster the free stack" ?

Don't train for too long at a time is my best advice. That way they won't get too bored of it.

Short spurts a couple of times a day, of a few minutes at a time.

Thankyou, I already knew this one but it's good to be reminded of. I make sure it's always a fun and happy experience for him

[Dogsfevr]

When he is just doing it praise & use the word of your choice "stand"

If pup likes balls/tug etc use that to reward a good free stack i

When the dog understands the natural stance then work with that with stacking.allow the dog to walk into his front & stack himself then fix accordingly,many dogs will do both & with a large breed it is often easier & quicker to teach them to walk into the stack than fix every leg & generally do a worse job.

The table is a tool you can use when older ,oour grooming room has a 2+ 2 metre mirror on the wall & as we use it to groom by & stack ,to see what the real world sees not our own view.

Even with a berner you sometimes need some creative grooming if the top coat is curly/wavy as it can alter the toplone

[Jumabaar]

I keep my reward rate high- and try and reward 5 times before they break the stand, even if at the beginning it means holding the food right up to them and treating every 1second or so. Once they have learnt that they continue to get treats for 'holding' the stand I start to up the criteria for how they stand, and decreasing the rate of reinforcement (ie drop down to one treat every 10 seconds). I will begin moving their head and my body around till their front end is even. Once they are naturally standing square at the front you usually find the back will follow. If not I just keep moving them till they are square in the back and jackpot and try and give treats even faster

I have been practicing being mouthed for quite a while, but I begin while they are sleepy or calm so it is not a game.

[stonecutter]

I keep my reward rate high- and try and reward 5 times before they break the stand, even if at the beginning it means holding the food right up to them and treating every 1second or so. Once they have learnt that they continue to get treats for 'holding' the stand I start to up the criteria for how they stand, and decreasing the rate of reinforcement (ie drop down to one treat every 10 seconds). I will begin moving their head and my body around till their front end is even. Once they are naturally standing square at the front you usually find the back will follow. If not I just keep moving them till they are square in the back and jackpot and try and give treats even faster

Thanks for the tip Woofen - we've only had 2 wks of show training and so far I'm shovelling the treats down for stand after doing out and back - though I've tried weaning her off to 2 seconds - but she sits her butt on the ground

[Jumabaar]

I keep my reward rate high- and try and reward 5 times before they break the stand, even if at the beginning it means holding the food right up to them and treating every 1second or so. Once they have learnt that they continue to get treats for 'holding' the stand I start to up the criteria for how they stand, and decreasing the rate of reinforcement (ie drop down to one treat every 10 seconds). I will begin moving their head and my body around till their front end is even. Once they are naturally standing square at the front you usually find the back will follow. If not I just keep moving them till they are square in the back and jackpot and try and give treats even faster

Thanks for the tip Woofen - we've only had 2 wks of show training and so far I'm shovelling the treats down for stand after doing out and back - though I've tried weaning her off to 2 seconds - but she sits her butt on the ground

With this I might try holding the treat up to their mouth but not letting them actually get it. Giving them a marker word then releasing the treat. Then having the next treat pushed up into your fingers but not letting her get it again. It still keeps them interested and standing, but reduces the speed of treats.

I then make it so they cant really get to the treat as much by rotating my hand, giving the marker word and treating them. It is also teaching them to 'leave it' in the end as well lol.

Hopefully we can catch up at one of your future shows

[cassie]

When he is just doing it praise & use the word of your choice "stand"

If pup likes balls/tug etc use that to reward a good free stack i

When the dog understands the natural stance then work with that with stacking.allow the dog to walk into his front & stack himself then fix accordingly,many dogs will do both & with a large breed it is often easier & quicker to teach them to walk into the stack than fix every leg & generally do a worse job.

The table is a tool you can use when older ,oour grooming room has a 2+ 2 metre mirror on the wall & as we use it to groom by & stack ,to see what the real world sees not our own view.

Even with a berner you sometimes need some creative grooming if the top coat is curly/wavy as it can alter the toplone

Thankyou I understand now, makes perfect sense I do use a mirror to help me see what the judge would see, very useful.

I keep my reward rate high- and try and reward 5 times before they break the stand, even if at the beginning it means holding the food right up to them and treating every 1second or so. Once they have learnt that they continue to get treats for 'holding' the stand I start to up the criteria for how they stand, and decreasing the rate of reinforcement (ie drop down to one treat every 10 seconds). I will begin moving their head and my body around till their front end is even. Once they are naturally standing square at the front you usually find the back will follow. If not I just keep moving them till they are square in the back and jackpot and try and give treats even faster

I have been practicing being mouthed for quite a while, but I begin while they are sleepy or calm so it is not a game.

Thanks a lot for your replies, they make a lot of sense and I will try out these methods

[Libertybrook]

also have patience, lots of patience, some get it really quick others can take a long time

and be consistant,

always make it a happy fun experience and always try to end on a positive note, five minutes a day is usally all that you need when they are little and in baby class.

plus all the ideas everyone else has said

I have seen dogs that are big feral clowns up until well into Junior class then one day their brain clicks into gear and wow

there is nothing worse than seeing a flat overworked baby who seems disinterested by the time he is in minor class, so keep on smiling and relax and have fun

[stonecutter]

With this I might try holding the treat up to their mouth but not letting them actually get it. Giving them a marker word then releasing the treat. Then having the next treat pushed up into your fingers but not letting her get it again. It still keeps them interested and standing, but reduces the speed of treats.

I then make it so they cant really get to the treat as much by rotating my hand, giving the marker word and treating them. It is also teaching them to 'leave it' in the end as well lol.

Hopefully we can catch up at one of your future shows

Thanks Woofen! At the moment she is attempting to lick it out of my hands (usually a small piece of ham or cheese), until I mark she doesn't get it. At the moment her default "leave it" is sitting on the ground - that's how we trained it originally - which is why when she sees the treat, but I don't give it to her quick enough she sits!

I think I'll try mark immediately and then delay a little on the food to see if that works.

[sas]

I use the 'Gotcha Game' to have a puppy to allow handling including teeth checking without any stress.

Here's a video of my puppy doing a session and accepting teeth checking, eye drops, cream on her nose etc:

Stackers are a good way to start out if you don't have any show training classes near you: http://showstackers.com/

There's also a wide range of books and DVD's out there to help out the novice: http://www.cherrybrook.com/index.cfm/a/catalog.catshow/catid/68/cname/Conformation_and_Judging

[Jumabaar]

With this I might try holding the treat up to their mouth but not letting them actually get it. Giving them a marker word then releasing the treat. Then having the next treat pushed up into your fingers but not letting her get it again. It still keeps them interested and standing, but reduces the speed of treats.

I then make it so they cant really get to the treat as much by rotating my hand, giving the marker word and treating them. It is also teaching them to 'leave it' in the end as well lol.

Hopefully we can catch up at one of your future shows

Thanks Woofen! At the moment she is attempting to lick it out of my hands (usually a small piece of ham or cheese), until I mark she doesn't get it. At the moment her default "leave it" is sitting on the ground - that's how we trained it originally - which is why when she sees the treat, but I don't give it to her quick enough she sits!

I think I'll try mark immediately and then delay a little on the food to see if that works.

You could even reward from a different hand- so leave the hand with the food in it there and treat from your other hand after the marker one time, then from the hand you are holding near her nose the next. Just to try and make her realise that the treat doesnt have to be near her for her to receive it.

[cassie]

I use the 'Gotcha Game' to have a puppy to allow handling including teeth checking without any stress.

Here's a video of my puppy doing a session and accepting teeth checking, eye drops, cream on her nose etc:

Thanks I love this! Great idea.

[Asalei]

My biggest piece of advice with what I've experienced with my girl was over training. I was going to show training every Thursday and she just got over it and wasn't interested in it anymore. This lead to pulling away when gaiting in the show ring and a general unhappy appearance, lacking in animation and spark. I wasn't going to training for her, I was going for me because I wanted to feel comfortable with what I was doing being a new handler and all.

I feel I broke her by trying to make myself feel comfortable in the ring. I also believe the nerves I feel before going in also contributes to her appearance in the ring.

I've worked very hard over the past few months to try and get her excited about showing again which has involved lots of treats and being told the basics from a friend.

[SparkyTansy]

My biggest piece of advice with what I've experienced with my girl was over training. I was going to show training every Thursday and she just got over it and wasn't interested in it anymore. This lead to pulling away when gaiting in the show ring and a general unhappy appearance, lacking in animation and spark. I wasn't going to training for her, I was going for me because I wanted to feel comfortable with what I was doing being a new handler and all.

I feel I broke her by trying to make myself feel comfortable in the ring. I also believe the nerves I feel before going in also contributes to her appearance in the ring.

I've worked very hard over the past few months to try and get her excited about showing again which has involved lots of treats and being told the basics from a friend.

This

It's so easy to ruin your showdog by overtraining.

[stonecutter]

So how many classes do you think it would be wise to go to?

So far we've been to 2 (with Luci Ellem) and it's been awesome - would it be better to go fortnightly? We work on all her showing fundamentals (standing, out and back, on the table for inspection) each day as part of her breakfast/dinner training (sit, stay, down, heel etc etc).

I don't think we're perfect by any means - but I don't want her to loose her enthusiasm

[sas]

So how many classes do you think it would be wise to go to?

So far we've been to 2 (with Luci Ellem) and it's been awesome - would it be better to go fortnightly? We work on all her showing fundamentals (standing, out and back, on the table for inspection) each day as part of her breakfast/dinner training (sit, stay, down, heel etc etc).

I don't think we're perfect by any means - but I don't want her to loose her enthusiasm

If your dog enjoys it then that's fine, if she's getting over it then have a break. When I went to Luci's with pup we only did half the class.

[stonecutter]

Thanks MEH - she doesn't mind the class, but when it's large - the dogs seem to spend a lot of time standing/stacking. I know this is probably what happens in the ring (though from what I understand there aren't huge numbers in our breed) - but she does get bored of stacking.

We didn't end up going this week - I got entrenched in statistical analysis for my phd thesis and didn't look at the clock!