poodlefan Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 And people wonder why we are losing so many people from the world of dog showing. If this proposal does become effective then there goes another nail in the coffin of the dog world. Goodness, how very dramatic....asking people for the same information they provide to set up an account at the local video store is to much to ask Dog Showers? Its breeders I'd be interested in ID checking.. but it will be everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayrod Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 I for one, cannot see how the introduction of this requirement would alter or improve any existing processes or procedures. Maybe if DV explained why they were attempting to introduce the photo ID requirement in preference to forwarding an email to Club Secretaries with this message that explains nothing we may have a clearer picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
experiencedfun Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Wayrod, I cannot understand why it even went out to club secretaries...are they 1. assuming every club secretary will pass it on...and 2. assuming every DV member belongs to a club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileys mum Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Also, it is now a requirement that all new memberships provide proof of residential address and photo ID when applying for membership of DOGS Vi Smart move IMO. No more post office box specials. Well that's all really good...but what about people like myself that lives on a rural property, & has all mail delivered to a PO Box. Are DV going to automatically think I'm dodgy because my mailing adress doesn't match my home adress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Also, it is now a requirement that all new memberships provide proof of residential address and photo ID when applying for membership of DOGS Vi Smart move IMO. No more post office box specials. Well that's all really good...but what about people like myself that lives on a rural property, & has all mail delivered to a PO Box. Are DV going to automatically think I'm dodgy because my mailing adress doesn't match my home adress? The form still has residential address AND Postal address. I live less then 2min from KCC and I have a PO BOX as my postal address listed with DV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringo Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 If they are trying to eliminate the puppy farmers, unethical breeders & those who are suspended and rejoining under different names why not go about this from the direction of the dogs they are registering - DNA proof of parentage is now available and if the ANKC actually made the agreements then the cost would be minimal. Would take time to get the database working however needs to start somewhere. Photo ID works fine however fake IDs are also able to be obtained and who will spot one of those with VicDogs ?? when it is produced. DNA would move the organisation into line with international standards and would also stop things like extra papers being given out when non existent puppies are registered as has been mentioned here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 My 17 yo daughter holds joint membership with me and she has no photo ID. She also has a different legal name to the name she goes by. Not sure how were going to comply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 If you can't get a DVD Rental card without proof of ID these days, where's the harm in asking people to prove they are who they say they are when applying (or as a once off renewing)CC memberships? For those who worry that Dogs Vic will know too much about them.. they don't even need to KEEP the ID details.. they could just check a box to say that ID is confirmed and destroy them. They hold names and addresses anyway. I don't have a dvd rental card so have no idea what they ask for. Who knows what DV will do with our ID's, they haven't bothered to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileys mum Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 So how will we go about supplying the id...do we have to photo copy it & then get it verified by a police officer & send it in ? What about people that don't drive or have a passport..what do they do? I like to encourage my new puppy owners to become members of DV, but if it's going to be too much trouble to apply, then it might put alot of people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 And people wonder why we are losing so many people from the world of dog showing. If this proposal does become effective then there goes another nail in the coffin of the dog world. Goodness, how very dramatic....asking people for the same information they provide to set up an account at the local video store is to much to ask Dog Showers? I agree. Anyone would think they had something terrible to hide. Steve a couple of days ago you were arguing that if a breeder is registered then it is a way that a puppy buyer can verify who they are dealing with. Kennel prefix can be matched with an individual responsible for the prefix. Now you are arguing that the registering bodies shouldn't be required to verify the identity of people obtaining prefixes? You can't have both. Where is the most basic consumer protection for puppy buyers? I can understand why you want life to be as easy as possible for good breeders, but buyers are going to be much better protected buying dogs from registered businesses than they are from hobbyists that do not properly identify themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 And people wonder why we are losing so many people from the world of dog showing. If this proposal does become effective then there goes another nail in the coffin of the dog world. Goodness, how very dramatic....asking people for the same information they provide to set up an account at the local video store is to much to ask Dog Showers? I agree. Anyone would think they had something terrible to hide. nope I don't have anything to hide, I am easily identified with my name and address. I fail to see why wanting to know what somebody or something is going to do with information such as found on a drivers licence automaticcally means a person has something to hide. Does a video hire place take a copy of your ID? or do they just check that it matches what you say? When someone rings me on the phone and asks for me to verify who I am I always ask them for their details so I can ring them back. Identity theft is very real and just blindly handing over details to anyone who asks for them, well, I don't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 So we assume that so many people who are breeding registered dogs are pretending to be someone they are not and having addresses which they dont really live at that its necessary for everyone who wants to be a member to prove who they are and where they live and have their licence numbers stored in a system which we have no way of knowing how secure that is or what that means? We also assume that puppy farmers use these tactics to hide from the CC how many puppies they breed. Why ? Last time I looked they can breed as many as they want . Or are we worried that people will hide where they live so they cant be inspected. - How often have CC gone to inspect someone and they dont live there? We havent been able to just use P.O. Box addresses for years anyway. Try telling people who are on an aged pension and who have a litter or two a year that this info will never be used as part of any data matching to put them under the gun for making an income. More animal rights baloney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CaptainCourageous Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I like the notion of ensuring the VCA is made of good members. I wonder what the start-up cost and the annual cost of the advanced membership card will be? I also wonder whether handlers will be required to carry it with them at events? Regarding data security, has the whole pedigree database ever been lifted from a controlling body for an individual to use? What shall prevent this recurring, once it's loaded with higher-value data? What would the cost per dog be of compulsory DNA-ID testing? Genetic Technology was doing them for free a few years ago to build their breeds database. The result for each dog was 22 three-digit numbers. It'd be great to have these on the pedigrees and to identify all incorrect lineages. CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CaptainCourageous Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) double post removed Edited June 23, 2011 by CaptainCourageous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Try telling people who are on an aged pension and who have a litter or two a year that this info will never be used as part of any data matching to put them under the gun for making an income. More animal rights baloney. What info? The info they are already providing? Their name and address? Unless they are providing false information right now, verifying their identity will not alter the data held about them. It wouldn't allow data matching that couldn't happen anyway, and it wouldn't reduce the obligation the registering bodies have under the privacy act. If breeders do not trust the registering bodies to keep their information secure, how do buyers verify who they are dealing with should the deal be disputed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 What would the cost per dog be of compulsory DNA-ID testing? Genetic Technology was doing them for free a few years ago to build their breeds database. The result for each dog was 22 three-digit numbers. It'd be great to have these on the pedigrees and to identify all incorrect lineages. CC Registered breeding greyhounds are all DNA certified so the parentage can be verified. Around $100 per breeding animal to have a certificate issued (It may have gone down in price) If there is a suspicion in a particular litter, the progeny DNA could be easily checked, otherwise no need to certify every pup bred. It's affordable (considering the prices that pups are sold for), and I think it should be introduced for all registered breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
experiencedfun Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Steve to breed 'registered' puppies they have to conform with the ANKC regulations as to how often and how many...but by using 2 sets of papers pere bitch they can get around it...who cares if supposed litter sister have puppies every 12 months....but when it is the same bitch having a litter every 6 months I find that unexcusable. *sp* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 And people wonder why we are losing so many people from the world of dog showing. If this proposal does become effective then there goes another nail in the coffin of the dog world. Goodness, how very dramatic....asking people for the same information they provide to set up an account at the local video store is to much to ask Dog Showers? I agree. Anyone would think they had something terrible to hide. Steve a couple of days ago you were arguing that if a breeder is registered then it is a way that a puppy buyer can verify who they are dealing with. Kennel prefix can be matched with an individual responsible for the prefix. Now you are arguing that the registering bodies shouldn't be required to verify the identity of people obtaining prefixes? You can't have both. Where is the most basic consumer protection for puppy buyers? I can understand why you want life to be as easy as possible for good breeders, but buyers are going to be much better protected buying dogs from registered businesses than they are from hobbyists that do not properly identify themselves. Greytmate in order to be a member of Vicdogs you have to provide a name, an address and a contact number - within 2 seconds if someone said they were registered and in order to register puppies they have to own registered dogs - if they were not registered a quick phone call would tell them they were not with or without proof of identity. Making those who are joining prove who they are will not stop people who say they are saying they are when they are not. Those people who were used in the thread as an example you mention were not members and Id bet the bank on it they would never even think of being members. There is no comparison and the two are miles apart. All this does for me is send a loud and clear message to the whole wide world that they know that some of their members are doing the wrong thing and committing fraud. Not that they know some crooks pretend to be registered when they are not. The basic most consumer puppy buyer protection is with the fraud squad , consumer affairs and a list of other entities which track down crooks who rip people off with anything. Registered breeders should not be assumed to be crimminals and checks put in place to ensure the incidence of crooks getting in is limited. By the way we also check identities and where people live but not by making them hand over their rates notices or licences and keeping them on file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I like the notion of ensuring the VCA is made of good members. I wonder what the start-up cost and the annual cost of the advanced membership card will be? I also wonder whether handlers will be required to carry it with them at events? CC I didn't read anything about a new membership card with photo ID on it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 All this does for me is send a loud and clear message to the whole wide world that they know that some of their members are doing the wrong thing and committing fraud. Not that they know some crooks pretend to be registered when they are not. The whole wide world doesn't know or care about a change in administrative procedures down at the CCCQ office. Members and other interested parties will get that message instead. People that may already suspect that some members are doing the wrong thing and hiding their identity to avoid the consequences of their actions. And they will get an even stronger message that the organisations are engaging in risk management by taking basic steps to verify who their members are. That is a good thing for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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