SwaY Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Fabulous!! There has been several new prefixes/memberships started up by people who have previously been suspended/expelled. I also know there are several out there who are in the above mentioned caragory, but are still members with "new" fake information as they obtained a membership prior to havi ng to provided photo ID I am not saying that DV do nothing to improve the security to avoid members/potential members from abusing a system, but how would having photo ID stop this! Up until late last year anyone could join up without showing proof of who they were. The same suspended people would join up again and again with fake information A new made up name, new po box, new pre paid mobile phone number etc And this is the frontline for DV? This is where they imagine turning points will be fought and won? it has already stopped a few (dodgy) people from being able to join up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 The only photo id i have is my driving license. Do they really need to know all my info from that? the only extra piece of info that they would get from your licence I assume, is conformation you are who you say you are. Right, well if my dodgey license with my alternative name was accepted for membership in 2011, how will DV sighting it again when I renew my membership in 2012, help weed me out? it might not catch you and your fabulous photo shopping skills, but I'm sure it would catch some others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) It's a small price to pay if you ask me, it will help to weed out some of the dodgy people. You believe that DV can do what Border security and Vic Roads cannot? I have reported a few "repeat" offenders and DV has removed them once they have investigated all the information I have supplied them. lol but I dont think DV are proposing you stand at the counter and all check our IDs. We are discussing a systematic implementation of yearly Identity checks - how will the DV proposal be effective? Edited June 22, 2011 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolving Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 It's a small price to pay if you ask me, it will help to weed out some of the dodgy people. You believe that DV can do what Border security and Vic Roads cannot? I have reported a few "repeat" offenders and DV has removed them once they have investigated all the information I have supplied them. lol but I dont think DV are proposing you stand at the counter and all check our IDs. We are discussing a systematic implementation of yearly Identity checks - how will the DV proposal be effective? To be fair I don't think they want yearly id checks on everyone. Just when you first join and when you renew for this year for existing members to make sure you are who you say you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 We are discussing a systematic implementation of yearly Identity checks - how will the DV proposal be effective? The ID check is a once off thing. Oct 1, 2011 until Dec 31, 2012 this would cover all renewals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 The only photo id i have is my driving license. Do they really need to know all my info from that? the only extra piece of info that they would get from your licence I assume, is conformation you are who you say you are. Right, well if my dodgey license with my alternative name was accepted for membership in 2011, how will DV sighting it again when I renew my membership in 2012, help weed me out? it might not catch you and your fabulous photo shopping skills, but I'm sure it would catch some others. We can go round and round and DV can profess that it will work, but how will it work - how will DV verify and authenticate without increase costs and reduction in efficiency for Members. I really dont understand how catching a few of a few is frontline for DV. And it wont even work anyway! but I guess if it makes some members feel more wholesome, then it's a small price to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Since you are so against it, what solution do you have to the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carluke Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 What if you are a partnership/kennel reg - (like we are) do all 4 get there mug shots on the card?? Why not move to Police checks as well. Some hobby. The undesirable will always be there as will the desirable, and no I don't have the magic answer either. Cheers Kate Hi Wayrod, when we see you back in the ring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 As I said in my first post it is easy to overcome you just get your mate to apply for m/ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Well just remember the CC have to share info and with the behind the scenes push on for breeders to be reported to centrelink and the ATO Im not feeling all warm and fuzzy about this. They can track when you buy a new TV set and open a new bank account and anything else you have to show your licence to obtain so they will also be able to track how many dogs you own and how many you register and data match all over the place including councils because of their involvement with reduced rego fees etc. Im a member of lots of associations and none ask for photo ID. How are they going to be sure its doing anything anyway. Are they going to be able to compare one face against another - flick through all of the files to see if the same photo appears twice or check whether its a real licence number or even a real licence? Or wait it cant just be a licence right - thats why the airlines cant introduce it easily because lots of their members dont drive and dont have a licence! Perhaps for all the members who live in the boonies we will all have to attend their office and stand in a line and have our faces snapped. Or maybe attend our local post offices for them to do it and send to DV. Or maybe they will just ask for a passport photo . Will we have to carry these photo ID'S ? Will the photos be added to our member cards? Who will have the right to demand to see them under what circumstances ? Will I have to attend council personally to show my member photo ID each time I want to register a dog ? Will the security on the member cards ensure the cards cant be reproduced and forged? Will we be punished if we dont carry them ? Sounds like big money to me especially if its going to go anywhere near preventing the minute amout of people who re join under another ID when they are suspended. For God's sake there are only 33000 ANKC members Australia wide and throughout the entire country there are only 4 and half thousand ANKC breeders throughout Australia. 70% of them only have one litter per year. How many get chucked out per year in Victoria ? How many of the ones who get chucked out would care enough to join up under another ID? How many of the ones who get chucked out and care enough to have to be dodgy enough to have a second ID couldnt get someone close to them to join up and use their ID? A very big breeder I know has a prefix in her name and one each in her two daughters names. Has done for at least 28 years. If one got chucked out - unlikely because there has never been a suggestion she was doing anything worthy of being chucked out then she could use one of her other prefixes. She uses all three prefixes for various reasons. Not that hard for a mother to obtain her daughter's photo is it? Two I know of have a membership with Dogs Queensland and one each with Vic Dogs - will they be doing data matching and checking photos to see if its the same person? I voted no. They were originally intended to be a stud registry and way,way before they start looking at photo IDs for their members they need to look at how they can identify the dogs which are being entered on their stud registry. If someone wants to get stupid - get chucked out and have some delusion they can benefit by joining under another name that doesnt affect me and the rest of the members or their dogs anywhere near as much as entering false data on their pedigrees. Based on the extent of the problem which they would be supposedly addressing by introducing this its hard to buy that there isnt some other reason tucked away - even if that is only a PR exercise to snuggle up to government or RSPCA. RSPCA called it a win for them when Dogs NSW announced that as from 2012 all dogs to be registered on their registry must have their chip details entered though the reality is that this wouldnt impact what the RSPCA do as it stands one bit because all dogs in NSW have had to be chipped at point of sale or by 12 weeks anyway since 1998. So whats in it for the RSPCA or what will be in it for the RSPCA? Why do they have an interest in all dogs registered in a stud registry being able to be identified by microchip? Why are they seeing it and taking it as their victory? How is that going to stop someone saying one dog parented a litter when another did ? How is that going to stop someone using a chip number that is already in another dog or changing a number here and there to say a dog exists when it doesnt? Where will the info be matched to and how will that be treated when prevention of cruelty acts is changed to cover line breeding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 And people wonder why we are losing so many people from the world of dog showing. If this proposal does become effective then there goes another nail in the coffin of the dog world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) And people wonder why we are losing so many people from the world of dog showing. If this proposal does become effective then there goes another nail in the coffin of the dog world. Looks to me that its a done deal in Victoria. Did they ask the members first ? Look there are some circumstances that require proof of ID and address etc. Pacers for example asks for an ID photo and we attach it to the ID tags we issue for our volunteers which they wear while they are working for us to show they have approvals to fundraise- so people can see they are able to do that,if they are suspicious or want to check they can call and we can verify their approval numbers etc and we know where to look if we get a complaint or they run off with the money etc . But seriously why on earth would a member of a dog group need to attach a photo ID of themselves to their application? I get why they may need proof of where you live because they may need to inspect you its just so easy to get around if you are that way inclined but it makes breeding dogs so much more intrusive. Edited June 22, 2011 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/victorian-motorists-in-huge-licence-rort/story-fn6b3v4f-1226035748093 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/victorian-motorists-in-huge-licence-rort/story-fn6b3v4f-1226035748093 and what guarantee is there that all the DV staff are fine upstanding citizens and won't use the information gained for their own means? What guidelines are in place to prevent this happening? Are DV even allowed to make such a request? What does the privacy act allow? For those without a drivers license or a passport what other photo ID is available and allowed? If I am forced to send one in I will be blacking out everything but my picture, my name and my address. They do not need to know my license number or when it expires. I need a yearly police check for my work, I might just send that in instead, it requires photo ID etc and IS governed by strict laws re what happens to the supplied ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) Questions: 1. Is identity fraud creating issues for Dogs Vic? 2. If the answer to the first question is yes, what simple measures can be put in place to prevent it. If you can't get a DVD Rental card without proof of ID these days, where's the harm in asking people to prove they are who they say they are when applying (or as a once off renewing)CC memberships? It's the reputation of all Dogs Vic members that suffers when dodgy members register litters and rip off puppy buyers. And the costs of dealing with that are both financial and reputation. One photo ID isn't going to stop a decent ID fraudster from operating.. but it may assist with preventing rank amateurs from doing so. Personally I'd have gone for proof of address also. ;) For those who worry that Dogs Vic will know too much about them.. they don't even need to KEEP the ID details.. they could just check a box to say that ID is confirmed and destroy them. They hold names and addresses anyway. Edited June 22, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 One photo ID isn't going to stop a decent ID fraudster from operating.. but it may assist with preventing rank amateurs from doing so. Personally I'd have gone for proof of address also. ;) They are. Also, it is now a requirement that all new memberships provide proof of residential address and photo ID when applying for membership of DOGS Victoria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
experiencedfun Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 it is about time. There are puppy farmers out there who hold several prefixes for several popular breeds. One that springs to mind has shelties, labs, goldens and more. They always pay by money order, their applications are always typed....they always make mistakes about the identity of the parents of the litters and when questioned they say the office girl made a mistake. I suspect when they breed a litter of 3 they register 5 to have spare papers so that bitches can have more litters. When you talk to these people on the phone you know its the same person but you cannot prove it. Well done Dogs Victoria for taking the initative to stamp out puppy farms..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) Also, it is now a requirement that all new memberships provide proof of residential address and photo ID when applying for membership of DOGS Victoria. (The membership application form located on the website has been updated to this effect.) The above information has been placed on our website in the Members Area, under Members Latest News, and will also be published in the September Gazette. The new membership form says - Please attach a copy of your residential address e.g. drivers licence, rate notice etc. It says this on the following page http://www.dogsvictoria.org.au/MembersArea.aspx To become a member of DOGS Victoria simply complete the membership form and submit it to DOGS Victoria for processing along with a photocopy of a document showing your residential address, for example drivers licence or rate notice. Edited June 23, 2011 by SwaY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 And people wonder why we are losing so many people from the world of dog showing. If this proposal does become effective then there goes another nail in the coffin of the dog world. Goodness, how very dramatic....asking people for the same information they provide to set up an account at the local video store is to much to ask Dog Showers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) One photo ID isn't going to stop a decent ID fraudster from operating.. but it may assist with preventing rank amateurs from doing so. Personally I'd have gone for proof of address also. ;) They are. Also, it is now a requirement that all new memberships provide proof of residential address and photo ID when applying for membership of DOGS Victoria. Smart move IMO. No more post office box specials. Edited June 23, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now