Mason_Gibbs Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 My lab has been changing colour now for about 12 months, it started on the tail and then the bottom half of his back and now its midway. He is/ was black and has now gone brown on the back and tail and the fur there is thinner and no undercoat. He is an allergy dog and has to eat home prepared as he is allergic to heaps although in the last 2 weeks i have found a kibble to supplement his diet. He had a huge hotspot on his back which was shaved, the fur grew back dark black and there is even undercoat in that spot. I am beginning to wonder if it could be a thyroid disorder although my vet and the dermatologist dont feel that he fits the symptoms im wondering if he should be tested anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 What are his activity levels and general health like (apart from skin)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 (edited) He is quite active and well in general. No skin infections for ages. Im thinking it could even be any of the medications he is on eg antihistamines, pred or the immunotherapy itself. ETA he is also on fish oil and evening primrose oils for his skin. Edited June 18, 2011 by Mason2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 (edited) Sometimes see Black turn to Brown on some patches of a Harlequin (they're fairly sensitive skin wise sometimes). If it's not sunburn you can look at increasing your Omega's or making sure you're using the correct ratio. EPO is a great option for dogs with skin disorders, the actual dose fo dogs with skin disorders is very high. Quoted from expert: Evening primrose oil (EPO) added to the diet can help with improving the barrier protection. This helps the body build a "coat of armor" over the defective ceramide layer of the skin. Evening primrose oil must be fed daily for 8 weeks to take effect and then maintained every day to maintain its action in protecting the skin. This lag effect must be considered. It takes time to work. You also need to use it in the correct dose or it won't work. The correct dose of evening primrose oil is 1000mg capsule/5Kg daily. Pred can cause hyper pigmentation, this may have something to do with it? Maybe best to head to the Vets, have some bloods taken to test things such as Live Function and also Thyroid? Edited June 18, 2011 by MEH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 He is quite active and well in general. No skin infections for ages. Im thinking it could even be any of the medications he is on eg antihistamines, pred or the immunotherapy itself. ETA he is also on fish oil and evening primrose oils for his skin. It is not a typical presentation of a thyroid disorder... However, you can still get him tested just to be sure. There are hair follicle disorders but they are rare and require all endocrine causes to be ruled out and a biopsy to diagnose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Have you had a chance to balance his diet yet, or is he still on elimination? Some imbalances in minerals and vits can change coat condition. You might find Monica Segal's books helpful: http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DN211 http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DN246 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I'd suspect the pred, steroids can cause hair retention & colour change due to hair aging. Could be diet related too, though, if you're on an unbalanced diet. Thyroid is possible, although symptoms you describe don't fit classic hypothyroidism, but even if you test thyroid hormone levels and find them low, it will be tricky to determine whether they are low due to a primary thyroid disorder or as a reflection of his concurrent illnesses ("euthyroid sick" syndrome). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Have you had a chance to balance his diet yet, or is he still on elimination? Some imbalances in minerals and vits can change coat condition. You might find Monica Segal's books helpful: http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DN211 http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DN246 He is finished elim but can only eat a very small variety of foods, but i am now adding a kibble in which he is fine on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Welcome to my world! This is my BLACK dane... He gets some allergies in summer and has a staphy yeasty coat but in winter goes away. His coat is thin and there is no undercoat. Topline and neck is black. He was black as a puppy. Previous thyroid test was normal range. Fed Canidae grain free salmon so gets the omegas. Otherwise healthy and active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Wow Danois he is really brown!! I will take some photos of mine tomorrow but I will take him to get thyroid tested just in case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 If his thyroid tests out normal, it could be that he is baking in the sun which can turn black coats brown or he may have "red coat syndrome" where black dogs and cats turn a rusty brown shade due to a diet deficiency in an amino acid (tyrosine, from memory). This can be corrected by adding kelp to this diet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Definitely no sun baking here - that would involve going outside It's not dead coat either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Dont think its from the sun as its winter and its getting worse now while its been raining a lot and overcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Have had a good read and i am sure its the prednisolone causing the muscle wastage and fur de-pigmentation and thinning , dryness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Seeing vet on wed, our derm has asked for a free T4 By equilibrium dialysis and TSH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Long term high dose pred like my Stafford is on causes thinnning of coat and skin, hair that doesn't grow back really well. It can also cause muscle wastage. From memory MAson's dose was pretty low though?? Brutus is 23kgs and on 20mg every second day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Boo's coat went before he had any cortisone. He had very low, ocassional dose of it during summer for the last 2 years. His turned at around 6 months and he's nearly 3 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) Waiting on the thyroid results but vet pretty sure they will show nothing as general blood panel came back with 2 things in the high range due to cortisone, not alarmingly high and its not anything dangerous. He is on 2,5mg a day but if its enough to change his numbers its probably changing the fur too!! He is very cortisone sensitive if he took 20mg he goes into a trance, drinks water like mad and then wets himself!! He had a shot of cortisone antinflammatory the once and ge was catatonic, very scary Edited June 23, 2011 by Mason2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Waiting on the thyroid results but vet pretty sure they will show nothing as general blood panel came back with 2 things in the high range due to cortisone, not alarmingly high and its not anything dangerous. He is on 2,5mg a day but if its enough to change his numbers its probably changing the fur too!! He is very cortisone sensitive if he took 20mg he goes into a trance, drinks water like mad and then wets himself!! He had a shot of cortisone antinflammatory the once and ge was catatonic, very scary Oh Poor Mason! We try to limit Mindy's corticosteroid intake for these reasons. She only gets 5mg as needed. She hasn't needed any for months now I prefer to have her a little itchy (she scratches for about 5 mins before going to bed- mainly on her tummy) than use steroids. Have you tried any local corticosteroid sprays? I have found cortavance to be very effective- although my dog mainly gets ithcy on her tummy and armpits which are hairless areas so the spray works there. You can also get a cream I think. The sprays/creams don't have systemic effects like pred tablets, although they can make the skin thinner on the area you use it on, although i haven't found this, I am only using the spray once a week or so. Mindy is only young though, apparently they get worse over time I hope you can sort something out to make Mason more comfortable and his coat nice and black again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Yip i have tried the creams etc, we use Elecon on his ears when he needs it. Mason is itchy morning and evening mainly:) he does def get worse as he gets older Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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