shortstep Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) I do not want to talk about livestock, I want to talk about dogs only. I think it is vital that all dog owners speak up now and make sure that dogs are not included in any ban on exporting. Every time I have spoken to the people who are politically pushing for banning live exports they do include dogs. They claim that large numbers of dogs are exported from Australian for meat. I find this ridiculous as the cost of exporting a single dog runs in the thousands of dollars, there is no way they would be exporting dogs at the price to eat them. Please think how you would feel if for some reason you had to move overseas and had to leave your dogs behind because of this law. Banning the right of a person to take their dogs with them overseas is simply not fair nor is it needed. It is cruel to both the owner and the dogs to force an unnecessary separation. I have moved several times across international borders and always have taken my dogs with me, I cannot imagine not being able to do that. It would be like leaving my children behind. I have spent time in Quarrantine, all the people I have talked to there are bringing in pets, dogs and cats they want to share their lives with. Theses were not dog meat producers or any other nasty thing, just people like you and me who shave their lives with dogs. If there is any hope of keeping dogs healthy, we need to constantly import new lines of dogs (which means new genetics), this also applies to all other countries. If NZ could not import dogs from Australia (or anywhere else) there would be a very negative effect on the NZ dog populations. The same applies to us. We must consider if they make exporting dogs a cruel act then preventing imports will not be far behind. If Australia could not import dogs it would be the end of any chance to save purebred dogs in this country and would even effect cross breeds in the not to distant future. Anytime you have a closed popilation and no influx of new genetics, then inbreeding will increase. The longer this goes on the more the dogs will become inbreed. If you believe at all in the concept that inbreeding is bad for dogs, then it is vital to have the ability to import new genetics into Australia. BTW every dog that is in Australian today, pure and mixed breed will have multiple 'roots' and multiple events of imported dogs in it's history (pedigree). This is a fact, your dog is the direct result of importing and exporting dogs. Just to be clear, when dogs are exported or imported into Australia it is a very tightly government controlled event. All dogs must travel under the direction of a professional shipper, who are experts on all of the laws, most of which have to do with ethical treatment, safety and health. Everything is regulated, vet checks, health checks, the size of the crates (they have more room than I do when I fly LOL) and the length of time they can travel, lay over boarding if needed is also tightly controlled, the list is long and through. All dog only travel by air on the same passenger planes that we fly on. They are never shipped buy boat, or in large containers or in large numbers. The airlines have rules that prevent them from taking more than a couple of dogs on any plane. It is no different from putting a dog in crate on the ferry to Tassie, except the time they are in the crate on the ferry is usually longer and there is no oversight as to the size of crate the dog can be put in (so could end up in a too small crate) and they will be stacked on the ferry but never on the plane. I would say without question, that plane travel is far nicer for the dogs than taking the ferry to Tassie, which is done everyday without a second thought. Also remember that people fly all over OZ with their dogs with far fewer regulations and rules to follow. So please be very aware that there is great risk that dogs will be slipped in on any motion to ban live animal export and we as dog owners need to follow this very closely and be ready to speak out loudly if they are included in the ban. Edited June 17, 2011 by shortstep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wings Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 All these calls for outright bans scare me. So many animal groups have put out basic letters for people to use and most of them just refer to 'live export' with no mention of particular countries or animals or the intended purposes. It's worrying how readily people sign these very vague letters and send them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greytpets Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I would like to see the end of greyhounds being exported to other countries for racing (read unknown fate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 There is no need to have any bans in place. With the correct procedures in place and followed through on. The problems that Australia has at the moment are politically motivated to win win votes. This talk of banning all live stock is just scare tactics. The sad thing is, it appears to working on some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 (edited) There is no need to have any bans in place. With the correct procedures in place and followed through on. The problems that Australia has at the moment are politically motivated to win win votes.This talk of banning all live stock is just scare tactics. The sad thing is, it appears to working on some. OMG the voice of reason. Good on you, oakway . Edited June 18, 2011 by raz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wings Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I doubt many, if any, bans will get put in place. There's enough groups on the other side of the fence that will stop it. What scares me is the public response, I swear the most outspoken are the people who haven't even thought about the actual effects of a live export ban. I guess I need to stop being suprised! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Don't stress over it shortstep, PDE is helping to bring about the demise of purebred dogs so if a ban came about there will be few of those left anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 (edited) Don't stress over it shortstep, PDE is helping to bring about the demise of purebred dogs so if a ban came about there will be few of those left anyway. And Don Burke. Soon the only thing we'll be able to buy is an inbred mongrel from a puppy farm... Edited June 18, 2011 by raz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortstep Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 (edited) Don't stress over it shortstep, PDE is helping to bring about the demise of purebred dogs so if a ban came about there will be few of those left anyway. Ok well that is fine if you are not worried about export ban because of the future you see for kennel club dogs. However, that has nothing to do with banning exports. So I will worry about it, because of all the other dog owners of mixed breeds, cross breeds and purebred dogs not in the kennel club and those kennel club dog owners who are interested in dealing with this issue about banning dog for export. I hope most dog owners can try to stay focused on the issue and work together as one strong voice, to prevent any bans on exporting dogs. Edited June 18, 2011 by shortstep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I'm as worried about a complete ban on animals as you are about the damage PDE is doing to the purebred dog world. Not worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Don't stress over it shortstep, PDE is helping to bring about the demise of purebred dogs so if a ban came about there will be few of those left anyway. Ok well that is fine if you are not worried about export ban because of the future you see for kennel club dogs. However, that has nothing to do with banning exports. So I will worry about it, because of all the other dog owners of mixed breeds, cross breeds and purebred dogs not in the kennel club and those kennel club dog owners who are interested in dealing with this issue about banning dog for export. I hope most dog owners can try to stay focused on the issue and work together as one strong voice, to prevent any bans on exporting dogs. Good luck with that! The problem with these sort of knee jerk reactions is that we have a huge population of gullible and misinformed people who will sign anything and support anything put under their noses without a second glance. All many people can see is the images of tortured cattle, they can't see further than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortstep Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 (edited) I doubt many, if any, bans will get put in place. There's enough groups on the other side of the fence that will stop it. What scares me is the public response, I swear the most outspoken are the people who haven't even thought about the actual effects of a live export ban. I guess I need to stop being suprised! I do hope you are right. I too am scare of the public response and a government that seems to be reacting very quickly with out a lot of warning. If they do put through a ban on exporting dogs I hope they let people have a chance to get out the coutnry with their dogs. Sort of an Australian dog owners refugee plan to another country with open borders LOL. Edited June 18, 2011 by shortstep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 If they do put through a ban on exporting dogs I hope they let people have a chance to get out the coutnry with their dogs. Sort of an Australian dog owners refugee plan to another country with open borders LOL. Oh yeah...just jump on a boat or plane with the child asylum seekers who are going to be deported by Gillard to a country who wont give assurances re Human Rights. Easy Peasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortstep Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 I'm as worried about a complete ban on animals as you are about the damage PDE is doing to the purebred dog world. Not worried. OK we get it, you are mad at me because I see the future of dogs depending on a lot more than the next episode of PDE. Your right, I think that what will determine the future of kennel club dogs will depend mostly on how the kennel breeders repsond to the concerns being voiced around the world by many people. Now if you would like to talk about the way forward for kennel club dogs that is great and a very worthy topic, but it has nothing to do with this tread about banning exports. So please start another thread for it eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortstep Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 If they do put through a ban on exporting dogs I hope they let people have a chance to get out the coutnry with their dogs. Sort of an Australian dog owners refugee plan to another country with open borders LOL. Oh yeah...just jump on a boat or plane with the child asylum seekers who are going to be deported by Gillard to a country who wont give assurances re Human Rights. Easy Peasy. LOL I was thinking more Canada on a plane. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I'm not mad at you, I don't know you, but you seem to have contradictory opinions. So you think the animal rights people are wrong about live animal exports now despite "concerns being voiced around the world by many people"? Sure banning all animals going overseas might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater but if it stops the horrendous things that happen to cattle and sheep surely it's worth it to ban dogs and cats as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Its not going to happen with dogs. Back when we attended the round table on puppy farming there was some chatter about them wanting to ban puppies being exported until they are 6months old. That may re surface later on but a general ban on exporting dogs is never going to fly. If someone found some terrible thing happening with some puppies being exported and we saw one of these expose' shows like the 4 corners program on livestock at most we would be prevented from selling to a certain country,to certain people or in a certain way. Worrying about them stopping the exportation of dogs is wasting energy at the moment in my opinion as there are many other things we need to focus on which really are pressing and realistic threats. I also dont see much point in debating why we are facing the issues we are as far as who got it started or who has fed it being very productive. What should have come out of PDE is a call for research. Research to identify if there really is a problem , if there is what the problem is, how wide spread it is and what is best needed to fix it. Emotion has no role to play here and one group or other going into defence mode and or playing a PR game isnt going to help either. Decisions have been made which are based on anecdotal evidence, speculation, basic guess work and media grandstanding. Instead where the researcvh has been done - it has been over looked and decisions made which contradict the facts. In my opinion being concerned about a general ban on exportation of dogs is something which may come on the agenda somewhere into the future but its not something which we need to be concerned about in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I'm not mad at you, I don't know you, but you seem to have contradictory opinions. So you think the animal rights people are wrong about live animal exports now despite "concerns being voiced around the world by many people"? Sure banning all animals going overseas might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater but if it stops the horrendous things that happen to cattle and sheep surely it's worth it to ban dogs and cats as well? Might be throwing the baby out with the bath water? Why on earth would we want to ban dogs going over seas because in one country they mis - treat cattle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 The live trade ban isnt going to happen any time soon, anyway. It was all just a smokescreen for Gillard to hide behind to disguise the fact she's now more unpopular than kRudd was when she knifed him in the back. Dont worry, shortstep. I think you're pretty safe importing or exporting dogs for the time being, as long as they arent meant for the pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 The live trade ban isnt going to happen any time soon, anyway. It was all just a smokescreen for Gillard to hide behind to disguise the fact she's now more unpopular than kRudd was when she knifed him in the back. Dont worry, shortstep. I think you're pretty safe importing or exporting dogs for the time being, as long as they arent meant for the pot. Even if they are meant f r the pot. You can still eat them here - as long as you dont cut their tails off or debark them without the correct paper work and take em to a show first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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