Large Number Of Savage Dog Attacks In Nsw

[sandgrubber]

There's something worse than an unstable dog . . .it's a breed that is stable and bred to be human-aggressive. There is at one banned breed out there whose breed standard calls for a stable and HA (toward strangers) temperament. In breed-specialty shows it is not considered a fault for dogs of this breed to bite the judge. Breed origins / work include capture of escaped slaves and protecting cattle from cattle rustlers and jaguars. You have to have a screw loose to want to import such a dog.

Sandgrubber, we have discussed this breed before and the traits of a guardian dog have been explained, yet it seems you still persist with the tabloid cut and pastes.

Since the last round, have you spent time with an individual or two from this breed?

If you are interested in the extreme temperament standard that differentiates the Fila from other guardian breeds please see:

http://retrieverman....ed-for-ojeriza/

I hadn't realised until I read this article that there is a split in the Fila community . . . and the CAFIB registry actively breeds for ojeriza (deeply embedded aversion to strangers) and will not register an adult that isn't HA to strangers, while the FCI deliberately breeds for less extreme temperament. I can't see import regulations saying FCI registry dogs yes, CAFIB registry, no.

Here's a breed-enthusiast, who calls himself RealFila, response to the blog (which argues that breeding for ojeriza is not ethical)

Owning a Fila is a big responsibility and is not one everyone is qualified to have. I have owned these dogs for 20 years now, I do believe and support the CAFIB standard and Ojeriza. Now with that being said should someone living in a small urban apartment own one HELL NO there is definately a huge potential for trouble in that scenario, however if you are a responsible person with a well secured yard and experience with large aggresive breeds then this breed MAY be for you. owning a fila is like owning a gun u may have the right to own it u ay not have the mindset or ability to handle it. The loyalty to its family is unmatched and they are generally very easy to house break and on the quiet side, but threaten him or his family (actually especially his family) you have entered a battle you are sure to lose.

Living in Brazil is relevant because you get to know what it is like to be in a culture where upper middle class people tend to prefer to live in high rise buildings -- because that makes it possible to have a guard on duty, and thus less likely that your children will be kidnapped for ransom. . . not because you get to meet the dogs. I can understand why people might be attracted to HA dogs in Brazil. Kidnap for ransom isn't much of a problem in Oz. I do not see any way of restricting ownership to responsible people with well secured yards and experience with large aggressive breeds . . .

The issue here is not the Fila per se, but breed clubs / registries deliberately breeding for HA (or DA) characteristics. Where this is happening, it becomes the breed as much as the breed. I think there is good reason to ban import of dogs bred for ojeriza . . . tough cookies if this results in a ban on FCI dogs and unregistered dogs as well as CAFIB dogs. Better than recreating the mess and heartbreak that occur as the system tries, in its clumsy inefficient way, to sort out the 'good' from the 'bad' in the bull breeds.

Edited June 23, 2011 by sandgrubber

[Sayreovi]

Please take no notice of what some people are saying about this loyal,loving,Intelligent family pet. The GSD clubs test for health and temperament it is called Breed Survey and this started many years ago as fear bitting and HD were a big problem but not now.

I have been to several and this is one of the reasons I chose this wonderful breed. :D

The clubs test for temperament and yet a GSD that is DA and HA is considered desirable even when the standard opposes it?

So which one is incorrect? The standard or the breeders breeding such nervy unstable dogs?

[chevorne]

Some very heated responses here! Not really worth discussing as most of these people will NEVER change their minds.

We are all different and should be thankful we are able to express ourselves. And lucky we live in a country that does not feel the need for Fila dogs.

[BJean]

If you are interested in the extreme temperament standard that differentiates the Fila from other guardian breeds please see:

http://retrieverman....ed-for-ojeriza/

I hadn't realised until I read this article that there is a split in the Fila community . . . and the CAFIB registry actively breeds for ojeriza (deeply embedded aversion to strangers) and will not register an adult that isn't HA to strangers, while the FCI deliberately breeds for less extreme temperament. I can't see import regulations saying FCI registry dogs yes, CAFIB registry, no.

So you think a primitive guardian dog should not have a strong aversion to strangers?

CAFIB are doing it right. People get caught up on the aggression towards strangers aspect and fail to see the balance and nerve inherent in the total dog.

The issue here is not the Fila per se, but breed clubs / registries deliberately breeding for HA (or DA) characteristics. I think when they do so they invite legal repercussion, including breed specific legislation.

The issue is that there is a lot of misunderstanding and hype about how certain dogs perceive and react to the world around them.

Personally I find breed clubs / registries deliberately breeding AGAINST HA/DA in certain breeds that traditionally have these characteristics in their functionality a concern.

You need to think how you expect a primitive guardian dog to behave and what prompts its reactions.

Edited June 23, 2011 by lilli

[tybrax]

No flaming from me on that one!The best start I think would be More EDUCATION.. Education and more education! pure and simple. How about following everyone of those vicious dog attack articles with a piece on what not to do with your dogs, highlighting responsible dog ownership etc no matter the breed. Keeping your dogs safe and how to avoid attacks. Maybe the governments can use some of that money that they used and keep on using In enforcing BSL and killing Innocent dogs and trying so hard to wipe out a certain breed like that's going to be the answer to their dilemma??... to something like responsible dog ownership campaigns/adds on tv, schools and all other media forms out there. And most definitely harsher penalties for owners caught not doing the right thing by their animals Including cruelty cases. If they're not fit to own a dog hell ban them from owning them again. And please don't tell me there aren't the resources out there to do It. If council can employ their ACO's to go out and inspect for BSL purposes, In which some of them have been known to actually spend considerable amounts of time spying In on people's homes to see If they've got RB's! and trying to ID them among the many other dirty ways and things they do to notch up a killing!!!....They can most certainly police for these other things. Put some of that hard earned tax payers money to some better use. I'm sure these are all some of the ideas that have been mentioned before but yet really to be put In place. Also more proper Investigations following attacks not just pts and all attacks not just certain breeds because they're know for being lovable etc and It's so out of character for them to attackI would like to add that not all ACO's are as what I've mentioned, I know a lot of them do care as wellThe amount of Innocent dogs taken from people's back yards and killed for doing no wrong since BSL has been Introduced Is staggering and most of all heartbreaking These are the things I and many others will never forget or forgive And apologies for somewhat going OT

Well said RottnBullies...

tybrax

[tarope]

My boy was defending himself and protecting me from what he saw as a threat, it's that simple. This wonderful breed is protective of the family they love, but some people will never understand this.

He wasn't protecting you from anything. There was no threat to you at all.

If your dog was feeling that threatened by a loose dog, it must be a very nervous dog and that is a fault in any breed. Dogs with good nerves don't need to 'nearly eat' other dogs that approach it.

Taking your dog unmuzzled into an environment where you know there may be loose animals is pretty irresponsible. Expecting everyone else to just accept your dog's dangerous aggression is even worse.

I have seen plenty of well-bred shepherds that are calm and politely interested (or disinterested) around strange new dogs. Don't expect me to believe that those dogs are the faulty ones and yours is the desirable type.

I would really like to say what I think of you and this post of yours, but I won't because it would get me banned. :D

Aggressive personal attacks will get you banned. Just like your dog was from the vet's waiting room.

Good on you for not posting and showing us that you have the self-restraint that your dog doesn't have. You might want to muzzle your dog too.

your good at twisting people's posts and since you've never met my dogs I suggest you keep your Ignorant comments to yourself. :D

Edited June 26, 2011 by tarope

[Greytmate]

your good at twisting people's posts and since you've never meet my dogs I suggest you keep your Ignorant comments to yourself. :D

If you don't want people making comments about your dog's aggressive behaviour, it would be better not to post descriptions about its aggressive behaviour on a public forum.

You are out of line with your comments about dog aggression being desirable. It isn't desirable, it's anti-social and turns people against dogs.

It is horrible to think there is a whole club of people breeding for anti-social traits in large powerful dogs. And the most ignorant thing is you trying to convince everyone else here that unprovoked dog aggression is somehow desirable. If you convince too many people in our community that it's normal for a GSD to be dog aggressive, they will want the breed banned. If that happens, we can only blame the people breeding for this trait.

[m-j]

It's an absolute misconception that working breeds like the GSD that can be trained in protection roles should be actively aggressive or be accepted that aggression is part of the breed. Active aggression in the breed is a faulty temperament and weak nerve, regardless of what the GSDL excuses aggression as, it's up to the owners of GSD's like this to collar the breeders and ask them what the hell they are breeding? There are too many GSD's bred with poor temperaments and too many excuses and cover up's for aggressive behaviour passing the buck back onto the owners for mismanagement of dogs who are genetically flawed from birth.

I agree with this statement in respect to DA. I was watching one of those reality police TV shows (not Australian) and a car chase ended with the person jumping out of his car and swimming across a river. On the other side of the river were two dog handlers, the guy got out of the water and ran inbetween the two dogs who had to remain on lead as they just wanted to nail each other (they completely ignored the guy, one even moved to the side as the guy passed through so he could see the other dog) so because of this they were totally useless. If either of them had been released they would have just attacked the other.

This doesn't strike me as a useful trait for a protection/police dog.

[tarope]

your good at twisting people's posts and since you've never meet my dogs I suggest you keep your Ignorant comments to yourself. :D

If you don't want people making comments about your dog's aggressive behaviour, it would be better not to post descriptions about its aggressive behaviour on a public forum.

You are out of line with your comments about dog aggression being desirable. It isn't desirable, it's anti-social and turns people against dogs.

It is horrible to think there is a whole club of people breeding for anti-social traits in large powerful dogs. And the most ignorant thing is you trying to convince everyone else here that unprovoked dog aggression is somehow desirable. If you convince too many people in our community that it's normal for a GSD to be dog aggressive, they will want the breed banned. If that happens, we can only blame the people breeding for this trait.

It's people like you that get breeds banned because you make an assumption based on Ignorance and this post of yours proves my point as it is pure fantasy.

Let me ask you this,if someone rushed up to you with the intent of hurting you would you just stand there and let them beat the crap out of you of would you defend yourself.

As I said before you twisted my words, he was protecting me and there are many other breeds that will do the same. This is not anti social traits,unprovoked dog aggression as you say it's being protective some thing you clearly don't understand.

[Flaves]

GSD's are DA,but that doesn't stop them being wonderful loyal family pets. I know what mine are like so I keep them on a short lead, but it's the moron owners in this world who are the real problem.

I was sitting at the vets a few years ago with my GSD boy when this fool walks in and lets their dog run strait over to my boy who nearly ate this dog and the vet told me to go outside. Another time at the same vets I was sitting with my Rottie who is not DA, when another moron comes in and you guessed it let their dog jump on my Rottie who growled and snapped at this dog and this stupid woman called my girl dangerous.

I have never seen DA as a problem,but I have seen many irresponsible owners so please don't blame your dogs. :D

As for your comments Tarope, you do more harm than good for the breed.

If your dogs are so reactive YOU must be the problem, not the dogs or their breeding

YOU are the common denominator.

My dog may not like other dogs in his face, but if a dog ran up to him in the waiting room at a vet, my dog would either ignore it, or say hi in a friendly manner.

YOU need to be looking out for your dog, YOU should be in control of situations, trying to pre empt what may happen. if you have reactive dogs then you need to be proactive and not allowing them to be in situations where they need to be reactive.

GSDs are NOT DA or HA in general

Some are, but that is the same in most if not all breeds.

People make dogs dangerous - maybe we need to make is harder to own a dog in this country, remove dogs from pet shops or impulse buy situations, make people do a course, make them do basic obedience. I am not sure how it would be enforced though

Active aggression in the breed is a faulty temperament and weak nerve, regardless of what the GSDL excuses aggression as, it's up to the owners of GSD's like this to collar the breeders and ask them what the hell they are breeding? There are too many GSD's bred with poor temperaments and too many excuses and cover up's for aggressive behaviour passing the buck back onto the owners for mismanagement of dogs who are genetically flawed from birth.

What a pity that some breeders aren't paying attention to the most important part of the standard. I want to own a GSD one day in the future but sounds like it's a bit of a gamble attempting to get one that isn't DA or HA. Such a beautiful breed that is being ruined inside and out by the sounds of what everyone is saying....

"The German Shepherd Dog must be of well balanced temperament, steady of nerves, self assured, totally at ease (except when provoked) and good natured as well as attentive and easy to train. He must possess instinctive drive, resilience and self confidence in order to be suitable as a companion, watch dog, protection, service and herding dog."

DISQUALIFYING FAULTS

a) Weak character, aggression without provocation or nervousness

Please take no notice of what some people are saying about this loyal,loving,Intelligent family pet. The GSD clubs test for health and temperament it is called Breed Survey and this started many years ago as fear bitting and HD were a big problem but not now.

I have been to several and this is one of the reasons I chose this wonderful breed. :D

Tollers they can be wonderful family members.

Meet as many dogs from a breeder as you can, not just the ones in their back yard.

Go to shows, see how they react at shows.

Dont always look at a survey and think great they are surveyed they must have brilliant temps. Yes they should have but we all know that it is not always the case.

[KOE]

You can blame the owner for mismanagement of an unstable dog, but it's the dog who attacks and why is the dog attacking, weak nearve, poor temperament, fear biter? Good stable dogs don't attack for no reason and neither do good stable dogs need precision management, so in my opinion, if you need to go to great lengths in socialisation, training and precision management to prevent a dog attacking, that dog isn't a good stable dog by any stretch of the imagination.

I have a dog aggressive dog, if she ever attacked a dog, i would blame me - not her.

My options: have her PTS or keep her and keep her and others safe.

I am aware of her problems and it is my choice to keep her, so it is my job to keep her safe from other dogs. I know what she can and can not handle and will never put her in the position where she feels threatened by another dog.

I dont believe the problems that are being talked about have anything to do with the dog, it is the OWNER. All of us who own dogs should know what they can and can not cope with and all of us should do everything we can to keep them safe.

If i could not handle my girl I would have had her PTS, no questions asked. As should anyone who can not handle the problems that their dogs have.

My boy can get a bit freaked out in crowds, if i am dumb enough to let him into that situation than how is that his fault?

Sadly I can not see things changing anytime soon, people are becoming more and more scared of bull breeds and it breaks my heart and I really dont know what the answer is to fix it.

Why would you even think of putting your girl to sleep just because she's DA, the problem is many people including vets seem to think that DA dogs are dangerous.

GSD's are DA,but that doesn't stop them being wonderful loyal family pets. I know what mine are like so I keep them on a short lead, but it's the moron owners in this world who are the real problem.

I was sitting at the vets a few years ago with my GSD boy when this fool walks in and lets their dog run strait over to my boy who nearly ate this dog and the vet told me to go outside. Another time at the same vets I was sitting with my Rottie who is not DA, when another moron comes in and you guessed it let their dog jump on my Rottie who growled and snapped at this dog and this stupid woman called my girl dangerous.

I have never seen DA as a problem,but I have seen many irresponsible owners so please don't blame your dogs. :D

Sorry not all GSD'S are dog aggressive you should meet my MAYA, we call her the blonde.

[Sayreovi]

Tollers they can be wonderful family members.

Meet as many dogs from a breeder as you can, not just the ones in their back yard.

Go to shows, see how they react at shows.

Dont always look at a survey and think great they are surveyed they must have brilliant temps. Yes they should have but we all know that it is not always the case.

I went to the GSD Nationals last year (I think it was last year, at KCC) and met alot of lovely dogs who showed no unprovoked aggression and saw alot of dog friendly GSD's so it's a bit confusing and detrimental to the breed when Tarope is so adamately saying the breed is DA and will react aggressively if another dog rushes it regardless of the rushing dogs intention.

Once I am ready for one, I will definately be researching more into lines and breeders as I definately do not wish to own a large powerful dog aggressive dog.

[Flaves]

Tollers they can be wonderful family members.

Meet as many dogs from a breeder as you can, not just the ones in their back yard.

Go to shows, see how they react at shows.

Dont always look at a survey and think great they are surveyed they must have brilliant temps. Yes they should have but we all know that it is not always the case.

I went to the GSD Nationals last year (I think it was last year, at KCC) and met alot of lovely dogs who showed no unprovoked aggression and saw alot of dog friendly GSD's so it's a bit confusing and detrimental to the breed when Tarope is so adamately saying the breed is DA and will react aggressively if another dog rushes it regardless of the rushing dogs intention.

Once I am ready for one, I will definately be researching more into lines and breeders as I definately do not wish to own a large powerful dog aggressive dog.

Yep was last year

And yes it is confusing when someone is saying the breed is DA etc all the time

They arent, they can be though, the same as any other breed