Indifferent Puppy

[Korrigan]

For all sorts of complicated reasons we have ended up with a Kelpie puppy. Had her for 10 days now. She is a female from working lines - cartainly not our first choice for a pet dog, but it's a long story and we agreed to take her on.

She is around 8 weeks and very healthy - that's the good news. The bad news is I have never met a puppy this aloof/indifferent to people. We are currently minding her sister, and have met her brother and they are both normal happy friendly wriggly bum puppies - just gorgeous. So it does not appear to be her upbringing or bloodlines. Our girl could not care less about us or any other person. She does play with the other puppies and with our older dog. The three Kelpie puppies have been raised identically, but temperament wise they and our girl are chalk and cheese. This puppy does not even wag her tail.

For example if I take the two sisters walking around the property, our little guest will happily run back to me, while our own girl will sit down, look at me perhaps and then go off on her own and check back in later when she's ready.

We have done some rudimentary training - sit, shake, drop and she's ok about it, but again really not focussed on people at all. I have never had a Kelpie - is this something that occurs with some members of the breed? At this point I would dearly love to swap her for one of the 'normal' puppies from the litter but that is just not possible. Help! We have dogs for life, for companionship and they're part of the family, but this is already shaping up to be a match made in hell. We lost a much loved dog 4 months ago and were going to take our time getting another. It breaks my heart to think of all the lovely rescue dogs out there we could have helped and instead have ended up with a puppy that does not seem interested in being a member of the family or bonding in any fashion.

Anyone else been through this? Would love to hear advice/thoughts etc.

Desperate here.

[Christina]

Not sure about this, as I haven't used it but others have.

http://www.volhard.com/pages/pat.php

She may be a 6 on this test, which may explain some.

Other thing is check her hearing, may be faulty but not stone deaf.

[persephone]

Hi First off I would be getting her vet checked again ( I presume she was checked when you first got her) have them check sight/hearing...and anything else :p

is she interested n one particular toy/food/treat? Will she pay more attention to you if you have something like this?

[Diva]

Assuming that there is nothing physically wrong with this pup, like deafness, it sounds like you have a very independent natured dog on your hands. Some people like that - but it sounds like it's not your cup of tea. I imagine you are going to have to compromise a bit on your expectations, as well as find what motivates this particular pup so you can train it more easily, if the relationship is going to work.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Diva

[dancinbcs]

Check for deafness first but after that it is probably just a temperament that you are not used to and may not be able to live with.

We see this sort of temperament occasionally in Border Collies and they are usually very active puppies as well. All they want to do is work and no amount of attention and normal training will make them want to be family dogs. They do however make outstanding detection dogs that will happily work all day and I know of several that have been donated to Corrective Services for use as drug detection dogs. They thrive on really high energy physical training with trainers who are very active in their interaction with the dogs.

[Guest Willow]

What everyone said about health testing is perfectly relevant, but at the same time, something you said in your post stood out, about how dogs are for life....yes, whilst yes, I agree to some extent, there is also no shame in finding a more suitable home for this girl if you & her just don't "gel". I can feel the disappointment oozing from your post, and it breaks my heart to think that you & her are going to be subject to 15 years or more of misery because you feel a sense of duty to keep a dog because it's "the right thing to do".

Once you have had her checked by a vet and perhaps a behaviourist, you might come to decide that you are just not the right home for her.

A few years ago now, we took on a kelpie puppy....she was far from normal....not in the way your girl is, but she had an aggressive streak, even from 9 weeks old. Now, I was also of the same mentality of "a dog is for life" so we persisted and persisted with this little girl, spent thousands on vets & behaviourists, when from day one I knew I had made a terrible mistake bringing her home. I loved her, but hated having her at home. We had her for 12 months and I think I cried everyday both out of regret and guilt. I used to look at other peoples normal puppies and grieve for the relationship I would never have with my girl. We chose to euthanase her in the end, because she was dangerous.

Once you've had her vet checked, assuming she is healthy, speak to a good behaviourist and decide from there whether you WANT to persist (not whether you feel guilty for not persisting) or work out together what kind of home would suit her better. I'm not saying you're not good doggy parents, but there may well be a home out there looking for just that type of puppy, and you can rest safe in the knowledge she is where she's meant to be, and then you can look around for a more suitable puppy for you.

Being a good dog owner isn't just about doggedly (no pun intended) hanging on, sometimes it's about letting them go to a life that "fits" better.

Good luck, I hope you come to a decision that feels right.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Willow

[Tapua]

As an X kelpie breeder I think your munchkin is rather independant and dominant - firstly rule out any health issues though I doubt there is any. Secondly she sounds like some of the dogs I have had in past and currently I have a geriatric now who is literally a snob about other people. She will tollerate people in sufference, certainly doesnt need to be around them except for food and was not overly inspired to be in our company. Except in winter when the couch and warmth is more important. I love her to bits.

It is a Kelpie trait that occures which its quite normal - if you are consitant and not bluffed by her dismissivness you will earn her respect. I find it quite funny to watch dominant bitches try to get it over me and I like the game of winning them over but the dominant bitches are not for everyone. This is a mind game and or course physical demands simply wont work with a Kelpie - they just walk away.

Re-homing is an option - dominant bitches often do better with males and or assertive females. They make great companion dogs for the individual and real character. They sometimes forget themselves and become very friendly. But they can be hard work if you are only looking for a family pet, since they can happily decide you are not good enough to relate to. Which defeats the purpose of a family pet IMO. PM me if you would like some help.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Tapua

[aussielover]

Maybe try and find her a working home?

There is no shame in rehoming her responsibly to a more suitable home.

[poodlefan]

Maybe try and find her a working home?

There is no shame in rehoming her responsibly to a more suitable home.

I'm inclined to agree. There are dog owners out there who LIKE dogs that don't want to live and breathe to be with them every minute of the day.

And the younger she is if you make the decision to rehome, the more likely you are to achieve it. I suggest you find some working/herding folk to take a look at her as a prospect for a working or herding home.

[raineth]

She may have a problem that can't be picked up just yet at her age.

I had a puppy with a temperament just like that and it was really really difficult. I was inexperienced too, and so with the combination of his temperament and my inexperience we ran into lots of problems. It was hugely stressful owning him and I'd often be kept awake at night trying to think about what I was doing wrong and analysing everything trying to get it right. It was a bit of a nightmare actually.

My feeling atleast is that you should consider another home for her in which the ciricumstances are good for her and the people are experienced with dogs.

Don't feel bad or guilty about going down that path. I can really see now that the wrong dog/owner combination causes a lot of stress for both dog and owner.

[Korrigan]

Thanks for the replies - definitely food for thought there. Just to fill in some background, she was never going to be a working dog, her breeders did not feel she would make the grade and therefore would be better suited as a pet. I suspect they already knew she was a bit 'different' as they said frankly she would be very difficult to place on a working property, or place in general. I thought they simply didn't know of any pet homes and/or knowing we had lost our old dog and were grieving were trying to be helpful by giving us this pup.

The other thing is we have been long time Akita people, and Akitas certainly are challenging in their way, and independent minded. In fact before she arrived I warned my hubby that he was likely to feel be a bit overwhelmed with this pup needing lots and lots of in your face attention compared to our past Akita puppies. Hard to explain, but if you've ever shared your life with an Akita you'll get what I'm trying to explain. So normal independment mindedness would have been fine, but this total indifference is quite odd. To the person who said I sounded as if I was oozing with disappointment, you're right on the money. This year I have lost my hand-raised cat, a beloved dog and my 31 year old horse - it hasn't been a great year and a nice happy puppy would have been great to have around.

We will rule out any health issues of course, and have a chat to a vet.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and advice

[persephone]

as they said frankly she would be very difficult to place on a working property, or place in general.

Then is when , in a perfect world .. you say - Oh, thanks, but No Thanks .

However- have her checked ... then see how you feel

You have had a terrible year of losses - I can understand the disappointment.

[sas]

My 4 year old as a pup was indifferent to people, it's challenging that is for sure, although since de-sexed at 2 years of age he changed his tune.

I wouldn't let this puppy run with other dogs.

If the dog doesn't suit you, send it back, that's just my i.m.o. because I don't believe they make good companion dogs. Might be good for a different family.

Edited June 16, 2011 by MEH

[Incavale]

A 'working line' Kelpie in a pet home will not be a happy chappy, unless you are really physically active

[~*Shell*~]

I wouldn't let this puppy run with other dogs.

I have to agree with this. I wouldn't let the puppy be rewarded from anything other than yourself for a couple of weeks (where possible) just to see if she does have any will to work with you at all. It's hard to bond with them when something else is more interesting for them than you are.

That being said, if she's not the right fit for your family, she's not the right fit for your family. It's not a great situation to be in but she might be happier somewhere else.

[Nekhbet]

she sounds like a dog dog. If she has little capacity to interact with humans you have to totally separate her off from other dogs for at least a month or two and take her with you as much as you can. If that still doesnt work any breeder or multi dog owner who needs a 'companion' dog for their own dogs would probably be happy to take her.

Not the first working kelpie I've seen with this personality. Rather be out doing their own thing or working then cuddling.

[Kavik]

My Kelpies adore people and my working line is quite a cuddler and bum wiggler for attention.

[koalathebear]

A 'working line' Kelpie in a pet home will not be a happy chappy, unless you are really physically active

That's not actually true. A lot of the generalisations about Kelpies, particularly the working line Kelpies are simply not accurate - it very much depends on the individual dog. My two are from working lines and dog number two came from a Working Kelpie Council breeder who knew he was being placed in a pet home so selected accordingly. The WKC itself will tell you that working Kelpies can make wonderful pets so long as they are not bored. A well-bred Kelpie is very adaptable. Some farmers treat their dogs as equipment, some are more hands on with more pats and affection. I'm not the only person I know who has a happy working line Kelpie as a pet and isn't 'really physically active'.

Our two don't even get walked every day. Last year and this year, we spent large periods of time at the hospital with a family member and there were times when they weren't walked for several weeks. They were fine. We have a decent-sized yard, nothing very large. We walk them when we can. They go to obedience once a week and the older one goes to agility. They have 15 minute training sessions every day, sometimes more than one session.

We have not seen any problem barking or destructive behaviours from them. They certainly love physical exercise and we know they could run 80k every day without getting tired - but they have learned to fit in with our lifestyle (desk potatoes) and they get their long crazy runs on weekends and during doggy playdates. What our two love best is to be close to their humans - they really don't care what we are doing, they just like to hang out nearby snoozing/playing. People who know my two know that I have a ridiculous number of photos of them lounging around, snoozing and being chilled out. They have moments of being velcro dogs but generally they're just happy to keep tabs on us and place themselves where they are nearby. They both love pats and the WKC-registered Kelpie in particular loves cuddles.

As for the original poster, there are a lot of Kelpies who are aloof and many who are not. For me, it sounds in this instance as if you just have a dog who has a temperament that may not be compatible for what you want out of a pet. There would be heaps of people out there who would love an independent, mildly aloof dog that sounds as intelligent and trainable as the dog you have. To learn sit/drop/shake at 8 weeks is actually pretty impressive for a puppy.

Edited June 16, 2011 by koalathebear

[kelpiekaye]

As for the original poster, there are a lot of Kelpies who are aloof and many who are not. For me, it sounds in this instance as if you just have a dog who has a temperament that may not be compatible for what you want out of a pet. There would be heaps of people out there who would love an independent, mildly aloof dog that sounds as intelligent and trainable as the dog you have. To learn sit/drop/shake at 8 weeks is actually pretty impressive for a puppy.

I agree with this. My OH pup is 12 weeks and sits, drops and shakes paw and I am impressed, 8 weeks is very impressive.

[dancinbcs]

As for the original poster, there are a lot of Kelpies who are aloof and many who are not. For me, it sounds in this instance as if you just have a dog who has a temperament that may not be compatible for what you want out of a pet. There would be heaps of people out there who would love an independent, mildly aloof dog that sounds as intelligent and trainable as the dog you have. To learn sit/drop/shake at 8 weeks is actually pretty impressive for a puppy.

I agree with this. My OH pup is 12 weeks and sits, drops and shakes paw and I am impressed, 8 weeks is very impressive.

I teach all my BC puppies all that and more by 8 weeks. They are much easier to train from 5 weeks than when they are older but most breeders don't bother with training at this age. If they did new owners would find coping with their new baby a lot easier. I have no idea if you can train other breeds this early but it would be worth trying. Of course no puppy performs consistantly at 8 weeks but they know what all the commands mean. Mine all learn stand, watch, come, sit, drop, heel and shake hands and they are just starting to get the idea of stay, all by 8 weeks. They are also about 75% house trained by this age as well.