Staffy - Looking For Advice (help)

[mumtoshelley]

Da stands for dog aggerssive

[trojka]

Here's Cosmolo's website http://www.underdogtraining.com.au/ - not sure what Nekhbet's is but I am sure she will help if you PM her on here!

This is her website:

http://inlinek9.webs.com/

[Nekhbet]

my ears are burning ....

if you need to email me go for it [email protected], we can see what we can work out. She may need putting in place or she may just be set in her ways, either way its not something someone can see over the internet.

Saying that I will not advocate rehoming a dog that fights others and has killed another creature.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Sounds like a nasty dog, sometimes you can't fix inherent behaviours. I would put to sleep. Far too many nice dogs out there dying in the pounds each day and I feel really sorry for your own dog, he certainly doesn't deserve to suffer in this way but nor does anyone else's dog or animal. I don't believe she can be fixed. Many DA staffy types around and highly risky to rehome and also, in my opinion, irresponsible.

[huski]

Sounds like a nasty dog, sometimes you can't fix inherent behaviours. I would put to sleep. Far too many nice dogs out there dying in the pounds each day and I feel really sorry for your own dog, he certainly doesn't deserve to suffer in this way but nor does anyone else's dog or animal. I don't believe she can be fixed. Many DA staffy types around and highly risky to rehome and also, in my opinion, irresponsible.

How on earth can you possibly make an assessment like that on a dog you have never even seen?

ETA: I completely agree with those who have said they couldn't ethically rehome an aggressive dog. But whilst we can guess about the extent of this dog's behaviourial issues, none of us can know how bad it is without actually seeing the dog.

Edited June 14, 2011 by huski

[persephone]

Sounds like a nasty dog, sometimes you can't fix inherent behaviours. I would put to sleep.

This is why I,and others, have urged Mike to get an unbiased, professional assessment of his dog's temperament and problem behaviours.

We can not make such a final judgement without seeing the dog.

We can imagine... and go on experience ... but we are not there to see .

[Zombie Bait]

Mike - please get in contact with either nehkbet or cosmolo to give you an unbiased and educated opinion before making any descisions. You may still end up at the same conclusion (put to sleep) but you will know that at least you tried with her and that you are acting on professional advice.

I have had to put to sleep our first rescue dog, Koni, a 14 month old doberman. On advice from a behaviourist and a vet, we made the decision to put to sleep. Whilst it was truly heartbreaking, I do believe that we did the best possible thing for not only ourselves but also for her. She was DA, dominant with other dogs but submissive with humans due to a history of mistreatment from her previous owners. She was unable to retain knowledge (whilst she seemed to learn and understand a command initially, she would be unable to retain that same knowledge for the next time somewhat like groundhog day or 50 first dates).

She also had no pain threshold and would injure herself in order to try and attack other animals. The vet and the behaivourist felt that she was possibly brain damaged (had been bitten on the head as a pup from her mother) and was unable to be rehabilitated.

This may not be the case with Missy - she may be able to be rehabilitated under the careful guidance from one of these great trainers/behaivourists. Or they may offer up the same assessment of safer for all concerned to put to sleep. Better to contact and find out rather than always wonder if you have done the right thing.

[juice]

That video is very worrying she is very dominant, she is not chasing him to play,she i sending him away he is being submissive,for now.You need help now if you care about Astro, remove her ,he is a lovely looking boy, don't risk him.You have been told who to contact, di it

[Ons]

That video is very worrying she is very dominant, she is not chasing him to play,she i sending him away he is being submissive,for now.You need help now if you care about Astro, remove her ,he is a lovely looking boy, don't risk him.You have been told who to contact, di it

that's the opinion I got too Juice, having seen the results of a blue cattle dog and my coolie I am worried about the dogs being left in the yard whilst Gammalite was away.

Please Gammalite see the professionals as suggested. And in the meantime separate the two dogs until you can see the professionals.

[Skye GSD]

Two of my daughters have DA GSD bitches who are fanastic with humans but after only one altercation with each of them, we do not mix them at all. Even to the point where I will put Skye in to our local kennels if we are staying overnite and it is a helluva lot cheaper than a vet bill. I would seriously consider the welfare of your beautiful boy above a new dog - he was there first and is obviously a perfect fit with your family. It would be so sad to see his demeanour/personality change because of an incompatible mate. Please take the advice given and separate them until you can have the situation properly assessed by one of the suggested professionals and then you will know what you are dealing with. I wish you the best of luck.

[tdierikx]

Sounds like a nasty dog, sometimes you can't fix inherent behaviours. I would put to sleep. Far too many nice dogs out there dying in the pounds each day and I feel really sorry for your own dog, he certainly doesn't deserve to suffer in this way but nor does anyone else's dog or animal. I don't believe she can be fixed. Many DA staffy types around and highly risky to rehome and also, in my opinion, irresponsible.

Would you say the same if Missy were of a smaller breed dogmad? My guess is probably not...

Gammalite has been given contact details for 2 very experienced trainers - maybe we can all reserve judgement until one of them has met Missy and gives an educated opinion as to her ability to be rehabilitated out of her dominant behaviours. She is still quite a young dog and maybe something can be done to help her. Astro is a good example of a very well behaved Staffy, and that doesn't happen by accident either - Gammalite has done a great job with him...

T.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

tdierx - pull your head in. I have plenty of experience with larger dogs. Doesn't matter what the size is - if the dog is that aggressive it is a risk no matter where it is. I stand by what I say.

FYI I have just had to euthanase a DA, HA dog that I rescued - she was 8 kilos, about a month ago. If you want more info then please pm me - no doubt you won't beleive me but you can talk to my vets as you seem to think I wouldn't do that to a small dog.

It's dangerous when owners don't know what they are doing - the owner's first dog is suffering and may end up becomign vicious simply because he has to defend himself. Why should any animal have to live like that? It's sheer misery.

With the dog I rescued, I couldn't keep her myself as she was a risk to my own dogs as well as other dogs and people and I couldn't rehome her safely either. Plenty more to the story Tdierx and it caused me a great deal of upset. I don't say it lightly but this is a nasty situation that the owner needs to remedy immediately by separating the dogs and making a decision - even if you can train a dog not to behave in that way, could you ever trust the dog NEVER to fight or attack again, under any circumstances? I seriously doubt that.

Edited June 14, 2011 by dogmad

[Gammalite]

Hi all,

I rang underdog training. I have left a message as the are overseas, back today. I'm trying to get something underway asap. I'll come back post the review from these folks.

Thanks again, the comments from everyone have given me great advice and increased my knowledge. I just wish I got another puppy and Astro could have been a mentor of sorts.

That said I'm in this spot and I'll try to best to get this sorted.

Mike

Edited June 14, 2011 by Gammalite

[poodlefan]

Mike

Missy is lucky to have you as her new owner Mike. A lot of folk would not have shown such commitment.

[persephone]

Here is the video of the first day they met.

I just got to see this ...and am an instant Astro fan! he is just wonderful .. well done , Mike

( I did enjoy the 'birds & the Bees talk ,too) ;)

[WreckitWhippet]

I'd be having a seriously long and hard think about this girl, before you embark on any assessments, training and committment to spending time and money on her. You may get to a point where you can manage the behaviour, with the help of a professional BUT you need to ask yourself now, is managing that behaviour going to be enough for you and will you ultimately be happy having her in your home.

If the answer is no, then return her now and look for a puppy or adult that is going to fit into your home.

I would also suggest that you have someone assist you with any future introductions into your home. I could see some things there that had the potenital to end in a fight, especially when your child interacted with the dogs.

[persephone]

How can he possibly make a decision about what to do with Missy without having her assessed and knowing what may be involved in any kind of rehabilitation??

[WreckitWhippet]

I'd be having a seriously long and hard think about this girl, before you embark on any assessments, training and committment to spending time and money on her. You may get to a point where you can manage the behaviour, with the help of a professional BUT you need to ask yourself now, is managing that behaviour going to be enough for you and will you ultimately be happy having her in your home.

If the answer is no, then return her now and look for a puppy or adult that is going to fit into your home.

I would also suggest that you have someone assist you with any future introductions into your home. I could see some things there that had the potenital to end in a fight, especially when your child interacted with the dogs.

How can he possibly make a decision about what to do with Missy without having her assessed and knowing what may be involved in any kind of rehabilitation?? He has already said he can't return the dog as she was a give away and the original owners have moved. I don't know about you but I could never make the decision to PTS without having a dog assessed first, unless of course it killed another dog or seriously attacked a person.

The unhappiness of the current dog, should be enough on it's own.

[poodlefan]

How can he possibly make a decision about what to do with Missy without having her assessed and knowing what may be involved in any kind of rehabilitation?? He has already said he can't return the dog as she was a give away and the original owners have moved. I don't know about you but I could never make the decision to PTS without having a dog assessed first, unless of course it killed another dog or seriously attacked a person.

Mike could easily make a decision based on how Missy is interacting with Astro, how Astro is responding, that she's dog aggressive and the fact that she's a cat killer. No amount of assessment changes the fact that this dog is going to require a hell of a lot of management in a home with children. Mike is already paying the price for her behaviour.

She won't be a suitable dog to EVER be walked by the kids, or taken on outings or holidays where other dogs will be without a lot of management. One mistake could be disastrous.

That he chooses not to PTS without assessment speaks to his commitment as a responsible dog owner. However, assessment or not, there's a decision coming as to whether the time and effort that will need to be put into Missy will produce the result he wanted in the first place. My guess is not. Time will tell.

I stand by my earlier comments that I would not be keeping this dog in my home a day longer. Whether others choose to keep DA dogs on and are up for the stress and effort involved in managing them is their business. The potential impact of mismanagement is a serious dog fight, vet bills, tramatised kids and possibly a dead dog. No thanks.

Two staffords in one home might have been the goal but these two Staffords? Its risk vs benefit and I don't see a lot of benefit here.

And as for rehoming a DA dog? Not a good option. It doesn't leave much does it.

Edited June 15, 2011 by poodlefan

[Greytmate]

FYI I have just had to euthanase a DA, HA dog that I rescued - she was 8 kilos, about a month ago. If you want more info then please pm me - no doubt you won't beleive me but you can talk to my vets as you seem to think I wouldn't do that to a small dog.

It's dangerous when owners don't know what they are doing - the owner's first dog is suffering and may end up becomign vicious simply because he has to defend himself. Why should any animal have to live like that? It's sheer misery.

With the dog I rescued, I couldn't keep her myself as she was a risk to my own dogs as well as other dogs and people and I couldn't rehome her safely either. Plenty more to the story Tdierx and it caused me a great deal of upset. I don't say it lightly but this is a nasty situation that the owner needs to remedy immediately by separating the dogs and making a decision - even if you can train a dog not to behave in that way, could you ever trust the dog NEVER to fight or attack again, under any circumstances? I seriously doubt that.

I tend to agree with this.

I'd be having a seriously long and hard think about this girl, before you embark on any assessments, training and committment to spending time and money on her. You may get to a point where you can manage the behaviour, with the help of a professional BUT you need to ask yourself now, is managing that behaviour going to be enough for you and will you ultimately be happy having her in your home.

If the answer is no, then return her now and look for a puppy or adult that is going to fit into your home.

I would also suggest that you have someone assist you with any future introductions into your home. I could see some things there that had the potenital to end in a fight, especially when your child interacted with the dogs.

Managing behaviour is the big thing. People use the words 'rehabilitation' like that is a process where the dog is restored. But it isn't like that. The process of behaviour modification can be extremely difficult, time consuming and ungratifying, and would take total long term commitment from every family member.

I really doubt that this type of problem can be permanently and completely solved so that the dog can live as a normal pet would.

Sometimes the bigger picture is the important one. Why have a dog in the home if it doesn't bring joy and improve the lives of every other family member? The right dog could do that.

I'd be having a seriously long and hard think about this girl, before you embark on any assessments, training and committment to spending time and money on her. You may get to a point where you can manage the behaviour, with the help of a professional BUT you need to ask yourself now, is managing that behaviour going to be enough for you and will you ultimately be happy having her in your home.

If the answer is no, then return her now and look for a puppy or adult that is going to fit into your home.

I would also suggest that you have someone assist you with any future introductions into your home. I could see some things there that had the potenital to end in a fight, especially when your child interacted with the dogs.

How can he possibly make a decision about what to do with Missy without having her assessed and knowing what may be involved in any kind of rehabilitation?? He has already said he can't return the dog as she was a give away and the original owners have moved. I don't know about you but I could never make the decision to PTS without having a dog assessed first, unless of course it killed another dog or seriously attacked a person.

I know what's involved in that sort of 'rehabilititaion'. Lots of and lots of management, and no margin for error. The OP is going to be under tremendous pressure here to 'do something' to fix this dog rather than put to sleep.

Sometimes the things that have to be done take such an investment of your time and effort and care, and mistakes can have such devastating consequences, that its not practical to persevere.

If the OP decided to keep the dog and then wait until did kill or seriously injure another dog or bite a person before acting, it would be far too late. Not to mention how poor Astro is feeling in the mean time living with an aggressive 'bully' type dog.

We can see what this dog is like from the video, and it isn't good news.