shelby-001 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) Hi guys, Long story short a few weeks ago we noticed Lilly limping on her right hind leg. After monitoring it for a week I decided a vet trip was in order. The vet had a preliminary exam of the leg and decided a sedation and thorough exam was appropriate to check the cruciates and joints. In the meantime we put her on Prolet (anti inflammatory and pain relief combination) and restrict movement. One week later and there had been improvement but we went ahead with sedation examination. Result was all seemed ok, and it appeared to be a muscle strain. Well we are now 2 weeks after the sedation and the poor thing is worse than ever. It has be VERY cold here (for us anyway), yesterday we didn't get about 14 degrees which is our 5th coldest max ever, so this is probably making the recovery longer/problem worse. Tonight when I picked them up after work from Gma n Pops (my folks) I went to put her front legs on the car and lift her in (as I normally do) and she yelped and rolled off her back legs onto her 'tailbone' into a weird sit. When I pickedher up entirely and put he in the back (I have a holden combo, so a low small van) she wouldn't put any weight on the right hind leg. Now she has done this 'yelp' and roll on to tail bone twice when we have been walking, the first time I thought an ant bit her foot as she nawwed at it, but she did it again this morning. I intend to make an appointment Tuesday and request the senior vet (she also owns the surgery) for her to look at Lilly. In an endeavour to help her the best I can though I am wondering what people's thoughts are as to whether Glyde of Joint Guard is better? I have joint guard at the moment, but have only be giving it to them every second day as a supplement as opposed to a treatment. My plan is to go with one or the other and increase for Lilly to the 'treatment/initial' dose and also add aloe vera juice to her meals. Any advice and thanks for the time in reading my long winded post! Edited June 18, 2011 by shelby-001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Any of those joint supplement things take weeks to have an effect ..AFAIK So ,until you get a decent examination/Xrays etc .. it is probably not much help. her chewing at the foot signifies quite a bit of pain she is trying to relieve Poor girl, having had to put up with that for weeks ...I hope you can get a vet who is thorough and knoweledgable in bones/joints!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelby-001 Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) I believe you are right in that they take weeks to kick in, but if the do 'kick' in, I'd rather start now than in weeks time. Just wondered if I should change to Glyde or if Joint Guard was just as good. I have increased her dose of that already. Until the cold snap 3 days ago she appeared to be improving every day.... not so now! We have gone backwards bigtime in 3 days. We only have one vet surgery in town, but the next town is only half hour away and well worth the trip if I don't get results I am looking for. I like to support the local guys as a co business owner in town but at the end of the day if it was me at the doctor and I didn't like the 'treatment' I would go somewhere else so I most certainly will be for my Lil as well. She still runs on it fine (although I suspect that is adrenalin), we do limit her exercise but occassionally she sneaks a run in while I'm unawares. She had her first walk in 4 days this morning, so I am thinking this exercise probably stirred what ever it is up again. I don't even know what to think it could be??? Having 'ruled out' ligament issues and her joints having been checked. I guess in hindsight I should have demanded xrays when she was sedated for cruciate checking. Edited June 12, 2011 by shelby-001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboy Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 i would take her to a horse/dog chiro ,this happened to our rescue dog and it was actually her back out pressing on nerves .I now take her 3 monthly to the chiro for a line up and she is going great .Also take our JRX who we rescued,her back legs are not good due to neglet and he also does wonders to her and she lives pain free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrie Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I've used Joint Guard for my chihuahua arthritis for several years now and been very happy but lately it's not been enough. Our vet moved us only Glyde, because it has the Green Lipped Mussel which the other products don't have. If I remember correctly this helps as an anti-inflammatory? I think? Correct me if you know better! I just remember it has EXTRA than Sashas Blend and Joint Guard so my vet prefers it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dxenion Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) After using Joint Guard for many years on our senior GSDs, we recently started trialling Glyde on our 11 year old GSD girl who has creaking arthritis in her hips and knees and is under vet care. Before switching over, she was receiving 3 monthly cartrophen boosters, rimadyl daily, joint guard in every meal (maintenance dose) and is an inside dog, but still seemed to be slowing up with the onset of colder weather (still waiting for winter here in Perth). After reading the rave reviews about Glyde on DOL, we decided to give it a go. She's been on it now for three weeks. I can't quantify how much of an influence other factors have had eg wearing a jacket to bed (the dog, not me) and putting the heater on a bit earlier for her, but her behaviour is noticeably different. I've seen an increase in activity level, initiating play behaviour with the two youngest dogs and even getting actively involved in a game of fetch. I've also busted her sharing chewing duties with the pup on an Invincibles 6 squeaker snake - she's never been interested in toys before. I know it's only been three weeks and it's not a scientific assessment due to environmental variables, but so far I think we might be on a winner. Anything that improves her outlook on life is a plus for me. I just wish my credit card would stop screaming! Edited for spelling Edited June 13, 2011 by Dxenion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelby-001 Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 Ok so nill use the joint guard on Boof and get glyde for lilly. I will get the local vet to do xrays and suss out what is going on, then with a copy of them will go see a dog chiro in the next town I think. Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelby-001 Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 Spoke to the vet today in regards to xrays tomorrow, they are going to get them done for me tomorrow in their surgery time. I also noticed 'bunny hopping' this arve which I hadn't noticed before, so things really look to be getting worse as opposed to better Really hoping tomorrow gives some answers, whatever they may be. I'd rather be dealing with 'something' as opposed to not knowing what to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelby-001 Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 Hey guys, SO we have had xrays and on the surface they appear clear. You could see swelling above (this is non technical layman's explanation) from roughly 3-9 vertebrae from the tail but all the bones appeared normal. No fractures or abnormal spacings, joint mice, spurs etc. The left hip socket was thought to be a little short by one vet but normal by another. Xrays have been forwarded to a specialist for further review as to the vet they were very inconclusive as they appeared so normal. In the meantime they have double her meds to provide her relief while we work out what's going on. As well her exercise is nil, she is only allowed to walk around the back yard. No running or playing. She is getting regular visits to gma n pops for some variation on surroundings. If the specialist gives the all clear on the xrays the vet is ok for me to take her to the chiro in the next town but was very stern in me holding off until they get back to us. Next step with the vet would be dye in the spinal tract and further xrays to look at obstructions etc as MRI is in brisbane over 1000kms away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I've used Joint Guard for my chihuahua arthritis for several years now and been very happy but lately it's not been enough. Our vet moved us only Glyde, because it has the Green Lipped Mussel which the other products don't have. If I remember correctly this helps as an anti-inflammatory? I think? Correct me if you know better! I just remember it has EXTRA than Sashas Blend and Joint Guard so my vet prefers it. I used to work for Parnell (Glyde) and you are correct. MSM in JG has never been fully proven as an anti inflam. Much anecdotal evidence though, and it is used in human pharma. The registration process for nutraceuticals holds no water IMO though. For a symptomatic OA dog I would use Glyde as the results are within days. The GLM in Glyde is also broken down further than many with EPA, to a molecule ETA that more readily mimics natural molecules in the body. However, if I was using the product as a preventative or for an asymptomatic dog the I'd use JG as the levels of GAGs (chond & glucos) is over known (still for debate though) therapeutic thresholds. JG, I believe, is better balanced than SB. Glyde is soooo expensive now!! I saw it for $150 the other day. The JG would have stopped working for your dog because the pain associated with degeneration has increased to a point where the MSM cannot override/ mask it. The anti inflammatory properties of Glyde are stronger. Have you tried Cartrophen/ Pentosan/ Zydax injections yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelby-001 Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 Ok so we went for the pre lim appointment with the chiro and turns out that since regular vet checked cruciates, she's managed to rupture both entirely. The guy I saw said the left leg was only done within the last week so there's no way they'd have been able to identify that and the right leg 'may' have been starting to go when they checked but would have been far from a full rupture based on how much scar tissue he could feel. When he told me that was the problem I said 'oh no no, we've checked that, bla bla bla' so he asked the timeline of events and symptoms and thats when he said what he thought about when she had done them, and that given the 'symptoms' she was presenting and the course of action taken, it wasn't a surprise it was no being over looked, but I should just go back to regular vet and discuss options and have them feel the cruciates again (thank god, he didn't imply the regular vet was a problem, he was actually very supportive of their position given all the circumstances). So I had a chat with one of the local (regular) vets this morning and we are popping in monday to discuss all our options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Ouch poor girl.... I hope the news isn't too drastic on Monday . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelby-001 Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 Well weightloss is the first step, although she is only 26kg, the suggestion is to get her to 22kg and then reassess, so she will be getting a lot of grated carrot at dinner, LOL. Lucky for me she likes it :D Last night she got carrot, egg, a spoon of yoghurt, joint guard and flaxseed and she didn't seem to mind that it was over in 2 minutes flat. Breakky was the smallest piece of roo tail I could find. So I guess now I need to look at other 'fillers' that will make her full without 'feeding' her if that makes sense? Any thoughts on things like 'soup' mix cooked up (the split peas/beans etc)? Or anything else that's useful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 lean meat isn't really fattening... personally I'd skip the beans/peas stuff - dog's aren't made to digest that ;) lean meat plus rib bones/roo tail & a few veges , plus a bit of reduced fat yogurt and teh odd egg .. ? Sorry, I don't believe in filling stomach space with fibre ( and sugar and carbs) ... they're dogs, not humans ...good satisfying protein, a little fibre and some bones etc is what I use . Everyone has different approaches .. and mine is that dogs are designed to feel satisfied/full with protein/meat ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelby-001 Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 Pers I was thinking the same thing, have just read lots about using carrot to assist! I will run with the roo tail or chicken carcass at breakky (will cut carcasses in half for her as the ones I get from leonards are quite meaty), and just give her tuna/sardines/salmon/roo mince with her supplements at dinner with one night a week with carrot (only coz she loves it and it's a bit of a treat for her) So a few days example of what I am thinking: . Breakky Dinner Day one - Small roo tail 1/2 x tin tuna (200g), spoon yoghurt, joint guard, flaxseed Day two - Half chick carc 250g roo mince, spoon yoghurt, joint guard, flaxseed Day three - Small roo tail 1/2 tin salmon (200g), spoon yoghurt, join guard, flaxseed Day four - Half chick carc 1 x cup carrot, 1 egg, spoon yoghurt, joint guard, flaxseed Treats I will limit to cow hooves for chews (they take forever to get threw) and dehydrated liver if I'm doing some stationary trick training with her. and so on. I use Jalna Low Fat, Omega 3 natural pot set yoghurt. I'm sure others will have other ideas and the vet already mention 'diet food' .... pfft that crap won't be entering their bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelby-001 Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Tomorrow will be interesting... OH is home from work now so thankfully he will be able to come with for the discussions re surgery and treatment of the two cruciates. Have looked into crates for Lilly for the recovery period. I am not looking forward to that but definately looking forward to having my girl out of pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelby-001 Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Ok so regular vet concurs that it is two ruptured cruciates and has recommended a specialist surgeon that comes through our area twice a year (we don't have a permanent one here) but also operates out of JCU in townsville. We are waiting on the referral as it will be up to the specialist whether they do both at once of separate surgeries. On the hunt for a crate, the vet is looking at what they can get vs what I can get. In the meantime they have asked we limit the pain relief and only keep up the anti imflamatory, this will help keep her still but reduce the inflamation before surgery. We will be putting her on Aloe Vera juice, Udo's choice and continuing the Joint Guard to help stave off the onset of Arthritis! The Aloe Vera Juice and udo's choice will start after surgery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Oh Just make sure a crate is wide enough for her to lie, on her side, with legs stretched out straight ..and to turn around in comfortably, with little knee twisting /pivoting . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelby-001 Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Thanks Pers.... am looking at the largest I can get incase Boof ever needs it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drucey Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Shelby Checking back to see how Lilly is going, did she have the operation on her cruciates? My mate Max has a similar limp on his rear right which i'm a litle concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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